I believe he gets it, but I don't have my book in front of me.
N18 Delaque Starter list
- Thread starter Sarkazym
- Start date
The confusion was the need to test. A complete new player mistake. From the start of the game, neither side has to take a bottle test until a model is Seriously Injured/OOA. None of that happened to me on turn 2, so I simply asked if I needed to take the test. Now that I have my book back and read it, I now know that once the conditions are met to take a test, you have to test every turn, until it's failed. Simple mistake. In every game I've watched, I haven't seen anyone not have a fighter meet the conditions for a bottle test in a turn, once the action starts.
The Web status was just unfamiliar to me because they are treated as Seriously Injured, but do not gain Flesh Wound Tokens until they recover. My mind just made the link that they aren't really Seriously Injured, so might not apply. Another complete new player mistake.
Thanks for clearing those both up.
-----
Got the Gang all updated and cleaned up, and feel comfortable with where it's at. No high Str weapons, so any Brutes can potentially become a problem. Looks like we're avoiding Ash Wastes/Vehicle rules for now. I'm not abusing any specific weapon tactic (esp. Webs) like I've seen some builds. I've also seen a few lists where they double up on 'Champions' to keep it broad. Feel I've got a good new player starting point for 1-offs, and launching point for the campaign. Still experimenting with the different Whispers.
Everyone has a buddy.
Leader and Ghost Specialist pair well together.
Phantom will be paired with the 2 Ghosts on average, so he's less of a 'Trading Queens' feel.
Gheist will have the Shadows to protect him Round 1,2 in addition to Choir support if I go with a CE Whisper.
Nacht-Ghul will remove opposing isolated targets, when they learn, he'll have the other 3 (on average) to support him.
Working on building a Tactics deck next using the N23 guide.
- Mass Infiltration / Whispered Threats *My Core Two tactics. Flexibility with who can 'Infiltrate' and Pressure on the enemy gang
- Grenade Bouquet *I agree that Smoke Grenades are really only going to be used on Turn 1. So I put it on my Phantom, so if my opponent avoids the Webgun on that first turn, he can throw it instead of going for that Round 1 Web. This will be a 'substitute' tactic when going up against someone unlikely to break. Having a potential wall of Smoke should make the Nacht-Ghul less predictable.
- Shape Shifting This gives me dual-coverage. In scenarios where Gang Members are randomly selected, I would never wish I had one who didn't make it in. In scenarios where I have a limited Crew, this justifies having 9(11) on my starting list justifiable.
- Long Shadows / Shooting at Shadows Gang wide use, and failure on the second one means I can re-use it.
The rest I tried to pick based on Scenarios that use Random Tactics, or generate additional tactics. I wanted generic ones that I could use in any situation and not limited to specific models.
- Shifting Shadows *This one has potential because I can pop ANY gang member through a Door/Wall then Activate him. I initially included it for the Nacht-Ghul, but it worked really well on the Webgun Infiltrator. I've thought about using it on the Gheist as well since the Wyrm ignores solid objects as well. Leash range management.
- Double Time / Adrenaline Surge / Thundering Charge *Mostly to extend Charge range despite not having any focus on Combat outside the Nacht-Ghul. Two of them will make that short to mid range shooting more manageable for that +ACC bonus or more Template hits on the Webgun.
- Deceit / Take the Initiative *Two opportunities to go first isn't a bad thing. One would allow me to give it up, which I can see being handy when I have a significant activation advantage over my opponent.
- Reaction Fire / Last Gasp *Bonus Attacks that don't interact with being ready.
- Bait and Switch / Desperate Effort When my opponent ignores the threat of a model because it's activated and shifts his focus elsewhere.
- Shadowfast / Chain Attack These are fillers to get to 18. Mostly to benefit the Nacht-Ghul, will probably replace if/when I find other ones.
*The original Delaque cards aren't options right now. I'd like to get my hands on them despite knowing what they are but I feel that the HoS ones have replaced the original ones and not add to it. 'History of Violence' is the only critical one I'd like to put in. It's one of two that is recommended to be banned by Arbitrators. It's also Universal so everyone would be able to use it. I can see them using it to remove the Nacht-Ghul, which was another consideration for taking 'Shifting Shadows'.
-----
The other outside considerations are the campaign elements that they're talking about.
There's talk of having it be Open/Casual, so players could play any number of games based on their individual schedules, benefit from the Advancements. This also wouldn't restrict players to playing the one gang, so the few players with multiple gangs could switch between them if they wanted. It's clear that players who limit themselves to 1 gang and play 2-3 games per week are going to advance much faster than those who play one game per week. Worse when that one game per week is being divided between more than one gang. I'm expecting between 1-4 games per week, so sticking to the one gang means it's unlikely that I'll be seeing the Underdog Tactics anytime soon.
IF they do allow this, I think I might build a Psyker based list as a secondary. I dislike allowing multiple gangs in a single campaign, so I would personally reserve my main gang for my opponents main gang, and reserve the Psyker Gang for when facing an opponent who is running a backup gang as well. I'm aware that the campaign is just for fun with no goals. We wouldn't allow a player to enter 2 armies into a tournament, or reward players for having different armies in 40k, so that's the main reason it bugs me. Nothing actually wrong with allowing it.
The other thing they are talking about is limiting the Tactics to single use. Straight up, this causes problems as the multiple game player is going to burn through his faster than a single game player, driving him to run multiple gangs, even with so many players with 1 gang. I'm advocating for not doing this, but would be happy to compromise and make them Single use per week. So I wouldn't be able to use 'Mass Infiltration' every game, but would be available every week.
My normal opponent and I have found 2 other new players on the same schedule as us, so we're going to trade opponents this week, so I'm looking forward to a new opponent this week.
Webgun /Broken help. Another long-ish one that I just would like some clarification on.
Webguns (and Templates in general) technically resolve their hits at the same time. I've go no issue with any of this, it's after that I run into a bit of confusion.
1 - Normally, only 1 model would go Serious/OOA, so all the models within 3" would take a Nerve test, and I'm either missing it or it's being ignored.
After all of the templates attacks are resolved, do all the models have to take a Nerve test? Or do all of them not take a test at all for being affected by the same attack?
** I'm aware that most players only trigger the Nerve Test 1x. So if one model is taken OOA, and the next one is Seriously Injured, then you wouldn't Test for both events. Webguns can't take anyone OOA until the recovery phase, but would like to know.
2 - After Close combat, if he meets the condition, has the option to perform a free Coup de Gras. I agree and don't believe that this would trigger a second Nerve test.
All I want to know here is that since the free Coup de Gras action is optional, am I free to Consolidate? The way it reads(to me) in the book is that the Coup de Gras is optional, but that the Consolidate is only an option when the free Coup de Gras isnt.
3 - With my NEXT Activation, a move to Coup de Gras one of the Webbed fighters and they go OOA.
Would this still trigger another Nerve Test? Or did they already pass it when they were originally Webbed?
-----
Just trying to figure out if/when Craven Howl would apply, and how I can actually use it to my advantage.
Webguns (and Templates in general) technically resolve their hits at the same time. I've go no issue with any of this, it's after that I run into a bit of confusion.
1 - Normally, only 1 model would go Serious/OOA, so all the models within 3" would take a Nerve test, and I'm either missing it or it's being ignored.
After all of the templates attacks are resolved, do all the models have to take a Nerve test? Or do all of them not take a test at all for being affected by the same attack?
** I'm aware that most players only trigger the Nerve Test 1x. So if one model is taken OOA, and the next one is Seriously Injured, then you wouldn't Test for both events. Webguns can't take anyone OOA until the recovery phase, but would like to know.
2 - After Close combat, if he meets the condition, has the option to perform a free Coup de Gras. I agree and don't believe that this would trigger a second Nerve test.
All I want to know here is that since the free Coup de Gras action is optional, am I free to Consolidate? The way it reads(to me) in the book is that the Coup de Gras is optional, but that the Consolidate is only an option when the free Coup de Gras isnt.
3 - With my NEXT Activation, a move to Coup de Gras one of the Webbed fighters and they go OOA.
Would this still trigger another Nerve Test? Or did they already pass it when they were originally Webbed?
-----
Just trying to figure out if/when Craven Howl would apply, and how I can actually use it to my advantage.
1. Resolve the whole attack first. Every one under the template is considered hit and possibly ooa or webbed At the same time. If they are SI or webbed they ignore nerve tests. Anyone else in the 3" may be subject to nerve tests.
2. That does trigger a nerve test
3. Again that would trigger a new nerve test.
Nerve tests are not Bottle checks. Each is treated separately.
Once the bottle is gone it'd gone but a nerve can be regained and lost repeatedly.
2. That does trigger a nerve test
3. Again that would trigger a new nerve test.
Nerve tests are not Bottle checks. Each is treated separately.
Once the bottle is gone it'd gone but a nerve can be regained and lost repeatedly.
I believe I understant, but still not confident.
1- Shoot Webgun
2- ALL models hit are pinned
3- Any models that get wounded, become Seriously Injured.
4- Those that aren't Injured are just Prone/Pinned. They would have to take a nerve test? This is the model I'm asking about, since you answered 1/2 of it.
* I'm aware that any models within X", and not hit by the template would also have to test. I'm clear on that.
I think this is new to me. I was under the belief that none of the Nerve tests were done until the end of current fighters activation. This might be another case of 'Over simplified explanation'.
1- Fighter Seriously Injures target, but he doesn't go OOA. This Triggers a Nerve Test to any other models with X".
2- With no other standing opponents engaging the attacking model, a free Coup de Gras is available.
Are you telling me this triggers an additional Nerve test? I'm genuinely confused here.
Follow-up Q: If one goes OOA during the Recover phase, will all the Pinned/X models have to take a Nerve test during the Recovery phase?
I'm aware that they're separate. It was a discussion I was having with someone else. There was some confusion about the model getting to Run for Cover if they failed their Cool check after the bottle test. Broken or not, a model has to pass a Cool check or be removed, so we got that squared away.
I'm pretty they take the check immediately after the action is complete, not at the end of the activation.
see page 128 in the core rulebook.
If you are not still engaged you have the option to consolidate.
Doing the free coup de gras action is optional. You are not required to do it. Most of the time it is the better option to do it, but not always.
I don't think this triggers a second nerve test as the close combat "action" hasn't fully been resolved yet.
This is where I'm seeing both sides. The Close Combat action is Resolved. The Coup de Gras after is a separate Free additional action.
I agree that it seems rough but probably won't come up that often. Just wondering if this is another common house rule or not.
What I meant is you haven't reached then end of the close combat workflow on page 120.
I'm not sure what to call it.
I feel like it is dictating the steps for the fight(basic) or charge(double) action.
That was my argument. That all of those steps are to be completed as one effective action before resolving any additional effects.
The Nerve test for a Broken fighter only seems to tells is what happens, but remains unclear when. It's missing the 'when resolved' element like Blaze.
I see some completing the action then resolving the Nerve Test. This makes it so that all models test once, no matter how many Nerve tests are triggered. Rare but possible.
Others will interrupt the flow and resolve the Nerve Test immediately, then resume where they left off. This is also allowed and creates multiple Tests within the same action.
Example: The potential for this came up in my game yesterday.
4 Goliath Gangers, are all next to each other. After a disastrous Webgun turn, I charge my Nacht-Ghul into two of them. I split my Attacks between them.
Method A:
- Resolve attacks against enemy #1
- Resolve attacks against enemy #2
- If both become SI, then CdG one of them.
* This would mean that the other 2 models would only take 1 Nerve test, despite seeing the requirements for a Nerve Test multiple times.
Method B:
- Resolve attacks against enemy #1
* Resolve any Nerve Tests if triggered.
- If he didn't break, Resolve attacks against enemy #2
* Resolve any Nerve Tests if triggered.
- IF both enemies are SI, and the first model to go down didn't break, then CdG one enemy model.
* Resolve any Nerve Tests if triggered.
A bit much but it appears to fit both the rules and the narrative. The 2 models not involved having to potentially test 3x.
Note: It didn't work out good for me at all despite the potential. I did 2 wounds to the leader, and 1 wound to the ganger. BOTH only got a Flesh wound and proceeded to rip the Nacht-Ghul in two with retaliating strikes.
Found out we're launching the campaign start of next month. 1400 Credits. 1000 Gang and 400 specifically for Vehicles.
I need suggestions for the Vehicles part so I can get the kits and assemble them. Haven't really looked at the rules much. Here are my ideas, but can only pull 1 of them off.
- Taurox/Trukk Kitbash. I think the Ork Trukk captures the feel of Ash Wastes/Mad Max. The Taurox would give me the enclosed cab that Delaque would use to shut the light out.
- Walkers. Either 2 Sentinels or the Admech Ones would look good and minimal work required.
- Atalan Jackals. 4 Bikes and A Quad with Bald heads. Almost too easy.
I need suggestions for the Vehicles part so I can get the kits and assemble them. Haven't really looked at the rules much. Here are my ideas, but can only pull 1 of them off.
- Taurox/Trukk Kitbash. I think the Ork Trukk captures the feel of Ash Wastes/Mad Max. The Taurox would give me the enclosed cab that Delaque would use to shut the light out.
- Walkers. Either 2 Sentinels or the Admech Ones would look good and minimal work required.
- Atalan Jackals. 4 Bikes and A Quad with Bald heads. Almost too easy.
Unfortunately I can't help you much with ash waste stuff. I have little interest that part of the game (it really should have been a separate game IMO).
That said the delaque are still waiting on their vehicles, not sure if that is a disadvantage or not.
You also might need to start taking higher strength weapons to get through vehicle's high toughness values.
Last edited:
I struggle with decent delaque vehicles haven't found one that really captures the new delaque look. A great many enclosed cab vehicles are out thier, like the Taurox. Many of them can do for generic vehicles but they just don't have the delaque vibe for me. (I have plenty for other gangs though).
I may try a sentinel conversion but I am not sure I could make it sneaky enough.
The Ork vehicles are great for ask waste mad max play, the Truck and battle wagon make great scrap heavy vehicles but I don't personally like that look for delaque. The fish and or tentacle look I like the concept of but doing it justice is currently elusive. Head swaps are quick and easy but the long coats are hard for me to model, my Green stuff skills aren't great.
Atalan jackels and wolf quad. I made my Orlock bikers out of that kit so I just see Orlocks on them, they work well though.
However I did a wolf quad delaque rider and that models torso and arms are pretty good matches for the standard delaque torsos and arms which work quite well.
So far I have made a wasteland dirtbike option for Goliaths, via Ork warbikes, Esher, with TTcombat ostrich racers, Enforcer, Space marine scout bikes, Orlock Bikers, as above, van Saar on Dark Eldar on Hellion winge with various ad mech bits to bulk them out.
Delaque bikers thus far elude me.
Thx @Lunarcruiser .
I couldn't find the rules on how to even get bikes. I saw the Market on Necrovox, but there is no reference. I'm not even sure if the group will allow me to simply buy 8 Bikes for my 400 Creds, and just put my guys on them. Looks like I'm waiting until the start of the month to have some questions answered.
Top two options:
- At this stage, I'll most likely do a Ridgehauler and just spend the 400 on it and hope we get our own kit sometime.
Then I'm only dealing with 1 model, and not have to worry about kitbashing.
- I saw the conversion someone on here did using the Eldar Shroud Runners for Bikes and REALLY liked those. The pricetag for 3 of those makes it rough needing 8 of them, but they already have robed legs, so the conversion for the actual rider would be simple enough. I would probably have to change my gang to get some higher Str weapons if I go this route.
** The main reason these are the top 2 options is that we're not restricted to, but we're including playing at the local Warhammer store, so any 3rd party stuff is a minor drawback because I'm one of those guys that doesn't like to exclude players who can ONLY play at the Warhammer store. The plan for now is to limit my games there to Hive tables. I'm with @HugeSamples and would prefer to avoid any Ash Wastes games for now.
Alternate Options:
- I found the Vehicles on Wargamesexclusive that I really like and can see myself grabbing several of those, esp. the Limo.
- I don't have a Printer, but I really like the idea of Mono-Wheels for Delaque. There are a few options out there that could work, but like the Shroud runners, it's a bit of effort for something that might not be allowed.
I couldn't find the rules on how to even get bikes. I saw the Market on Necrovox, but there is no reference. I'm not even sure if the group will allow me to simply buy 8 Bikes for my 400 Creds, and just put my guys on them. Looks like I'm waiting until the start of the month to have some questions answered.
Top two options:
- At this stage, I'll most likely do a Ridgehauler and just spend the 400 on it and hope we get our own kit sometime.
Then I'm only dealing with 1 model, and not have to worry about kitbashing.
- I saw the conversion someone on here did using the Eldar Shroud Runners for Bikes and REALLY liked those. The pricetag for 3 of those makes it rough needing 8 of them, but they already have robed legs, so the conversion for the actual rider would be simple enough. I would probably have to change my gang to get some higher Str weapons if I go this route.
** The main reason these are the top 2 options is that we're not restricted to, but we're including playing at the local Warhammer store, so any 3rd party stuff is a minor drawback because I'm one of those guys that doesn't like to exclude players who can ONLY play at the Warhammer store. The plan for now is to limit my games there to Hive tables. I'm with @HugeSamples and would prefer to avoid any Ash Wastes games for now.
Alternate Options:
- I found the Vehicles on Wargamesexclusive that I really like and can see myself grabbing several of those, esp. the Limo.
- I don't have a Printer, but I really like the idea of Mono-Wheels for Delaque. There are a few options out there that could work, but like the Shroud runners, it's a bit of effort for something that might not be allowed.
Book of the Outlands Page 41 has the Wasteland Dirtbikes. There is even a bit for alternative mounts that count as bikes, like space birds, and options to add some vehicle upgrades to them.
The Shroud runners are a bit bulky to get away with calling them bikes they are more on the Light Vehicle size more like the Orlock Outrider. Just a size point. However the Torsoes are not a solid piece intergrated in the legs so Delaque torso and above swaps could definitely work. Bit cost intensive i admit for regular bikers which is the hurdle i come across.
I have toyed with the Idea of an eldar base of some sort for delaque, I used dark eldar/adept Mechanicus for my Van Saar.
Similar threads
