N18 Do pets activate twice with overseer?

[DoomMerchant]

Hi All,

Question:

Do pets activate twice with when their controller is activated by overseer if they have already acted that turn?

 

[Beebopalulla]

Like a cascade of overseer? That's an interesting question. If the overseer test is succesful than the target character is activated again. So i will say yes .

• Exotic Beasts can only be activated as part of a Group Activation with their owner. Accordingly, the owner of an Exotic Beast gains the following special rule:
Group Activation (Exotic Beasts): When a fighter with this special rule is activated, their controlling player must activate all Exotic Beasts belonging to this fighter
as well as part of a ‘Group Activation’:

- The controlling player selects and activates each fighter in this Group Activation as normal, fully resolving each activation before selecting and activating the next. Each fighter activates individually; groups do not activate simultaneously.

- If this fighter itself is activated as part of a Group Activation, this rule still applies, meaning any Exotic Beasts this fighter owns are activated as described above when this fighter is itself activated as part of a Group Activation.

Because you must activates the exotic beast when you acivate that fighter.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Like a cascade of overseer? That's an interesting question. If the overseer test is succesful than the target character is activated again. So i will say yes .



Because you must activates the exotic beast when you acivate that fighter.

Edit: I very much misread question and response. Leaving this here for chain integrity but please ignore for this conversation.

original: But you can not chain "group activation" and the must is using group activation (exotic beasts). I'd lean the other way in that you can not even group activate the pet owner, RAW. You are told you must do something without permission to break base rules.

That said I'm all about bending Necromunda rules. I still favor the no attack charge to allow for multi fighter bonuses/ ganging up.

This is something I wouldn't do with out a pre campaign discussion/ arbiter decision.

 

[Beebopalulla]

So your opinion on this particular use of overseer is: first activation of B by A, B activate with his beast but when B is acivated again by A he only act but not his beast or when B is activated by A only b and never his pet are activated?

 

[Aulenback]

Notably, at least as of the 2023 edition, Overseer does not Activate the target fighter, it instead has them take two actions withut Activating.

Order (Double): Make a Leadership test for this model. If the test is passed, pick a friendly fighter within 6". That fighter can immediately make two actions as though it were their turn to activate, even if they are not Ready. If they are Ready, these actions do not remove their Ready marker.

So... you could use overseer on an Exotic Beast as the friendly fighter, and the Beast isn't Activated, so won't check for leash at the end of its two actions, because it isn't the end of its Activation. Also, if you target the owner of an Exotic Beast, the "group activation: exotic beast" won't trigger, because the owner isn't being Activated.

But any Exotic Beast owned by the Overseer fighter will group activate.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Because p 87 of the 2023 core rulebook it says this. That's why i have that understanding.

- If this fighter itself is activated as part of a Group Activation, this rule still applies, meaning any Exotic Beasts this fighter owns are activated as described above when this fighter is itself activated as part of a Group Activation.

 

[Vonvilkee]

So your opinion on this particular use of overseer is: first activation of B by A, B activate with his beast but when B is acivated again by A he only act but not his beast or when B is activated by A only b and never his pet are activated?

For some reason overseer read as group activation from gang hierarchy... I'm way off. Sorry

 

[Vonvilkee]

Because p 87 of the 2023 core rulebook it says this. That's why i have that understanding.

Hadn't caught that update, yay rewrites for intent! I'm actually glad they clarified that, eliminates gotcha moments as gang purchases are harder to accept than single surprise in a game that won't happen again (hopefully)

 

[DoomMerchant]

Because p 87 of the 2023 core rulebook it says this. That's why i have that understanding.

So to clarify, if you overseer someone their pets do activate with them? I think this makes sense thematically and is clearer but I also get how powerful it is.

Thanks everyone for the replies btw. All very helpful.

 

[Aulenback]

If you Overseer someone, they do not Activate. They only take two Actions,instead. Overseer is pretty clear in that in the 20023 edition of the rules. See above.

Since they do not Activate,they do not Group Activate with their pet. The pet only activates when their owner is Activated.

 

[DoomMerchant]

If you Overseer someone, they do not Activate. They only take two Actions,instead. Overseer is pretty clear in that in the 20023 edition of the rules. See above.

Since they do not Activate,they do not Group Activate with their pet. The pet only activates when their owner is Activated.

Ok thanks really helpful!

 

[Aulenback]

As someone playing a GSC gang, this means that I should NOT use overseer on my champions and move them as part of that Overseer pair of Actions, because their Familiar will not follow. Any movement should be done on their own Activation, so that the Familiar can stay close (because their use is in being within 3" of their owner). Some pets have a solid use with a longer "leash," but not them.

 

[TopsyKretts]

This topic is larger than overseer, because there are many other effects that allow out-of-sync actions or activations. For example Spyrers have 2 activations each round.

 

[Beebopalulla]

"That fighter can immediately make two actions as though it were their turn to activate, even if they are not Ready. "

So a clarification here. It might be a barrier language but I understand as " if activate" as an activated fighter.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Notably, at least as of the 2023 edition, Overseer does not Activate the target fighter, it instead has them take two actions withut Activating.

This made me curious because I don't remember this change being reported before. So I had a deep dive in rulebooks. It always said "two acitons", not activations. But it has changed in other aspects:

• N18: No Ld test. Usable by fighter.
• N19: No Ld test. Usable by fighter.
• N21: No Ld test. Usable by fighter.
• N22: No Ld test. Usable by model.
• N23: Ld test. Usable by model.
• N24: Ld test. Usable by fighter.

 

[Beebopalulla]

This made me curious because I don't remember this change being reported before. So I had a deep dive in rulebooks. It always said "two acitons", not activations. But it has changed in other aspects:

• N18: No Ld test. Usable by fighter.
• N19: No Ld test. Usable by fighter.
• N21: No Ld test. Usable by fighter.
• N22: No Ld test. Usable by model.
• N23: Ld test. Usable by model.
• N24: Ld test. Usable by fighter.

But how do you give two actions without activating said model or Fighter? I m sorry to insist on that bit after translation i feel i m missing something.

 

[TopsyKretts]

How you give two actions without activating? You simply spend 2 actions. "as though it were their turn to activate". That quote means as if you were activating as normal (but you aren't activating as normal, and one effect of that is that pets don't get a free ride).

This will have funny interactions with Ortruum's Mind Lock spell, because it prevents a fighter from activating for the rest of the round. But with overseer, the fighter can still make 2 actions

Since the wording is so old, I'm not 100% sure it's meant to buypass the "activation" keyword, but instead is just a clumsy wording.

 

[Beebopalulla]

"as though it were their turn to activate"

So i m back to what i said before.

Again not to insist for the sake of doing it. i just want to understand.

 

[TopsyKretts]

You make 2 actions. Move + Shoot. In the same way as if it was your turn to activate normally.

 

[Beebopalulla]

So back to the original question only the fighters and not his pets has two actions with overseer?