Do shields require a hand?

[Ben_S]

EDIT DUE TO MERGED THREADS:

The shield entry in the rulebook doesn't say that it takes a hand. This has led to a recent debate [now moved below] as to whether one can use a shield with two hand weapons (all at the same time).

While a vote may not settle things definitively, I thought a poll might be interesting.

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Original post from other thread:


Using the shield means you can't use an additional hand weapon, which is often the better option. (Not much point having a mace and an axe, if you're doing that.)

If you go without the shield, it's only 5+. Quite often that will be reduced to 6+ (only half as effective) by modifiers and other times it will be ignored entirely anyway.

That said, Mordheim isn't really a game for min-maxing. If you want it for fluff reasons or something, then go for it.

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

The rules are based off 5th edition Fantasy so you can use 2 hand weapons and a shield. Only the Spear doesn't permit an additional hw, only a shield.

 

[Ben_S]

The shield doesn't explicitly state that you can't use a weapon in the same hand, but I think that's common sense. And it certainly seems to be how most people play, going by online discussions.

Note the extra arm mutation (for Possessed), which allows you to carry and extra weapon or a shield.

EDIT: I took this from a discussion on Facebook:

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

You're going by logic. In WH Fantasy you can swap out the shield during combat if you prefer. You can even have a shield if you have a 2 handed weapon like a flail if you wanted. Trust me I've been in the hobby for 30yrs.

 

[Ben_S]

You can HAVE the shield, but you can't USE it at the same time as both weapons. (You can still use it against shooting, when not in combat.)

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

And thats exactly what he is saying. Its logical that a shield requires a hand but he had to go with the rules at the time which was 5th edition and it allowed the use of 2 weapons+shield. Even standard bearers have te option for a shield and most sculpts have it hung on their backs for that reason.

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

You can HAVE the shield, but you can't USE it at the same time as both weapons. (You can still use it against shooting, when not in combat.)

You're misinterpreting the rule.

 

[Ben_S]

What rule do you think I'm misinterpreting?

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

You can use your shield in combat to defend against attacks and then attack with both your weapons. One has nothing to do with the other. In 5th edition that is allowed. You're going by current rules which don't apply to that era.

 

[Ben_S]

I'm not convinced you're right about 5th edition WFB, but that's so long ago I'm not going to argue about that.

In Mordheim, shields are assumed to take a hand. It isn't explicitly stated in the shield section, but it's clearly intended, as illustrated by various references elsewhere, such as:

You can't use a shield, because both your hands are full. Why would a two-handed weapon stop you from using a shield, but 2x one-handed weapons not do so?

And the screenshot above confirms: "using shield requires the use of one hand".

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

Thats not the same as 2 separate weapons

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

I'm not convinced you're right about 5th edition WFB, but that's so long ago I'm not going to argue about that.

In Mordheim, shields are assumed to take a hand. It isn't explicitly stated in the shield section, but it's clearly intended, as illustrated by various references elsewhere, such as:

View attachment 213419

You can't use a shield, because both your hands are full. Why would a two-handed weapon stop you from using a shield, but 2x one-handed weapons not do so?

And the screenshot above confirms: "using shield requires the use of one hand".

Thats a rule specifically for that weapon.

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

And the debate of RAW vs RAI will live on way past our time.

 

[Ben_S]

Thats a rule specifically for that weapon.

Yes, it's a rule for that weapon. But the logic is clear - the reason you can't use a shield is because both your hands are full.

See also the spear rule:

It clearly states that you can use a shield in your other hand. Because using a shield requires using a hand.

The Mordheim rules are rather loose in places. If you're going to assume that you can use a shield and a weapon in the same hand, simply because it doesn't explicitly say otherwise, then you're just going to end up in arguments like this at the table. (Unless you're only going to play likeminded friends, in which case do whatever you want of course.)

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

I'm not convinced you're right about 5th edition WFB, but that's so long ago I'm not going to argue about that.

In Mordheim, shields are assumed to take a hand. It isn't explicitly stated in the shield section, but it's clearly intended, as illustrated by various references elsewhere, such as:

View attachment 213419

You can't use a shield, because both your hands are full. Why would a two-handed weapon stop you from using a shield, but 2x one-handed weapons not do so?

And the screenshot above confirms: "using shield requires the use of o

Yes, it's a rule for that weapon. But the logic is clear - the reason you can't use a shield is because both your hands are full.

See also the spear rule:

View attachment 213420

It clearly states that you can use a shield in your other hand. Because using a shield requires using a hand.

The Mordheim rules are rather loose in places. If you're going to assume that you can use a shield and a weapon in the same hand, simply because it doesn't explicitly say otherwise, then you're just going to end up in arguments like this at the table. (Unless you're only going to play likeminded friends, in which case do whatever you want of course.)

You do realize that's for Spears ONLY...

 

[Hobo86]

it takes a hand, but you can use it with a two-handed weapon against ranged attacks
I think there was a fan / errata about that?

 

[Tiny]

You can have a shield, axe and sword. You would choose which two of those items you are using at the start of combat.

This is common sense, and from the rules given for the spear and extra arm mutation, shields are clearly meant to take up a hand.

If your group allows you to game the rules to take a shield and hand weapon in the same hand, then that is up to your group.

 

[spafe]

yeah, it's pretty clear that a shield uses a hand if you want to benefit from its save modifier in combat. if you are armed with 2 hand weapons and a shield, you can choose to drop/sling the shield and only use the 2 hand weapons (with no save improvement) in combat, OR use 1 hand weapon and the shield to benefit from the shield. That example warrior will always gain the benefit of the shield when being shot at.