N18 Enforcers- to allow TP or not?

Erork

New Member
May 31, 2017
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How big of a disadvantage is disallowing Enforcers from using the trading post? I also keep hearing they aren't allowed to do so, but I've scoured the books but couldn't the actual quote that bans them from using it???

And if we house rule to allow them TP access, how disruptive to game balance is it?
 

MrAndersson

Ganger
Sep 18, 2018
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I don't think it disrupts game balance. The question is if they will want to use it anyway. They have the most cost effective weapon, by a wide margin, already in their house weapon list.
 

Erork

New Member
May 31, 2017
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I don't think it disrupts game balance. The question is if they will want to use it anyway. They have the most cost effective weapon, by a wide margin, already in their house weapon list.
I figure they'd still want to get wargear like med kits, servo skulls, grav chutes, etc., or get a subjugator a good heavy weapon like a heavy bolter or auto cannon.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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I also keep hearing they aren't allowed to do so, but I've scoured the books but couldn't the actual quote that bans them from using it???
In their gang composition rules (TBoJ, p29), it says "During the course of the campaign, gangs may gain new equipment, either by purchasing it from the gang's House Equipment List or as a result of Scavenging". No mention of the TP. Compare to the one from GotU (p11) "During the course of the campaign, gangs may gain new equipment, either by purchasing it from the Trading Post or as a result of Territory Boons".

Even if you don't find the above conclusive (I'm not sure I do), Enforcers would be enable to equip any weapon that is not part of their HWL, since they can only equip weapons from the Palanite Weapons List or the Subjugator Weapons List, so you would only be able to use the TP for Wargear.
 
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JawRippa

Ganger
Mar 31, 2017
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Without trading post enforcers can't purchase bionics. So by the end of the capmpaign they will have a squad of crippled fighters.
 
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Jumbley

Black And White Son Of A Gun
Honored Tribesman
Sep 5, 2019
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IMO, it's not even a matter of whether it would be imbalanced: there's too much that's broken about Enforcers if they don't have access to the Trading Post. How are you supposed to get new Patrolmen? Or the Magnacles that come on your squad's sprue? Not to mention the other issues that have already been raised in this thread.

As Thorgor noted, the rule seems rather inconclusive, and as OP has noted, it's not really stated anywhere explicitly. I personally lean towards allowing it, as it doesn't seem to offer any major imbalance, especially considering the Weapons restriction rule that is already in place. Being unable to recruit or buy equipment outside of the very limited HEL seems like it's too much of a disadvantage.
 

Thorgor

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IMO, it's not even a matter of whether it would be imbalanced: there's too much that's broken about Enforcers if they don't have access to the Trading Post. How are you supposed to get new Patrolmen? Or the Magnacles that come on your squad's sprue? Not to mention the other issues that have already been raised in this thread.
Not being able to purchase stuff from the Trading Post doesn't mean you skip the whole "Visit the Trading Post" phase of the post-battle sequence. Even the stricter RAW interpretation wouldn't prevent you from recruiting new fighters.
Magnacles only being available for Enforcers through the Black Market Trading Post is wrong whether you allow them access to the TP or not. It makes sense that this item is not available in the regular TP (as it's something only law enforcement is supposed to have access to), but it should definitely be on the Enforcers HWL.

That being said, I'm not convinced that Enforcers have no access to the TP. I think it's far more likely that the writers butched their rewrite of the gang composition rules (like they did so many other rules from TBoJ).
The original gang composition rules from GotU could just as easily be used to deny House Gangs access to items from their own HWL (as it only mentions the Trading Post), so we know the list is not supposed to be exhaustive (and it's also missing other sources of stuff, like items you may receive in exchange for freeing a captured fighters, or the then-not-existing Racket Boons)

It's also not completely impossible that the weapon restriction for Palanite and Subjugator only applies when the fighter is first recruited and is lifted after their first battle or when they get an advancement or something (just like the 20 credits limit for Juves)
 
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Jumbley

Black And White Son Of A Gun
Honored Tribesman
Sep 5, 2019
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Magnacles only being available for Enforcers through the Black Market Trading Post is wrong whether you allow them access to the TP or not. It makes sense that this item is not available in the regular TP (as it's something only law enforcement is supposed to have access to), but it should definitely be on the Enforcers HWL.
I legit didn't know they were only available in the Black Market, for some reason I thought it was a regular TP item - seems like in that case, definitely should be in the Enforcer's House List, no doubt.
 

Ml2sjw

Gang Hero
Nov 25, 2017
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I'd almost like to see an enforcer only trading post, still with limited equipment but with a variation of the rarity roll ( call it a requisition roll with how amenable sector is to your requisition request).

Things I would like to see
Magnacles (obviously)
Flares (states their liberated from plannite stores)
Photovisors (just seems an obvious oversight and I want to drop photon flash grenades on my own guys with a bit of protection)
Industrial resperators (mentions them being equiped to helmwar's personal guard)
Bionics (for fixing guys up, unless you want to force replacement with rookies)
Medkits
Drop rigs ( got be able to absail in for the assault)
Gunshrouds (for stealth assaults)
Strip kits (for breaching doors)
Lascutter (for breaching doors)

"Normal" shotguns with access to shock and web(I know I'm just made them up)

Not that big a list but the. I like the weapon limitations forcing a play style instead of everyone rocking the same kit like in original necromunda!
 

Jumbley

Black And White Son Of A Gun
Honored Tribesman
Sep 5, 2019
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This is a solid list: I like the concept of Enforcers having their own sort of 'armoury' to requisition from. This would be a very simple and effective way to smooth over the Trading Post issue.
 
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Ml2sjw

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It's the easiest mechanic I can think of I'm sure people will always have an argument for them having lascannons or similar so the list is a bit subjective

If you want a fluff justification it's pretty easy "regime protection forces" as such organisations are euphemistically referred to in real life often are denied key equipment to prevent them getting ideas and taking over the regime they are meant to protect. So Helmwar would carefully balance his forces so if the enforcers got ideas then the PDF could deal with it. Hence the lack of heavy bolters etc
 

reough

Juve
Mar 19, 2015
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What side did then come down on with the void borne scum? Extra points for a screenshot
It was on the side that the stats are correct as they are printed - something about big guys in space suits? I can find a reference later but it was a Facebook post I think, it was linked somewhere in the sump thread when it was being discussed
 
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Thorgor

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It's hard to hit the leader when the nearby scums can take the ranged attacks in their place though.
The thing with Void-born scums is that they have Ogryn stats (S5, T5) but are armed with puny ranged weapons (autopistol or laspistol) which makes for a strange combination.
The description mentioning "abhuman adventurers" as possible scums and their special rules (Bodyguard and Indentured Fighters) do lend credence to them being Ogryns (abhumans that are notoriously loyal to a fault and too stupid to fight without guidance). It's just the weapons that don't fit: Ogryn usually use large and brutish weapons, not pea-shooters.
 
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TopsyKretts

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It's hard to hit the leader when the nearby scums can take the ranged attacks in their place though.
The thing with Void-born scums is that they have Ogryn stats (S5, T5) but are armed with puny ranged weapons (autopistol or laspistol) which makes for a strange combination.
The description mentioning "abhuman adventurers" as possible scums and their special rules (Bodyguard and Indentured Fighters) do lend credence to them being Ogryns (abhumans that are notoriously loyal to a fault and too stupid to fight without guidance). It's just the weapons that don't fit: Ogryn usually use large and brutish weapons, not pea-shooters.
Note that those special rules are univeral: All alliances (Guild & Recidivist) with Bodyguards (gangers) have the special rules Bodyguard and Indentured Fighters. It's more related to how alliances work as a mini-gang than the background of any specific alliance and its fighters.
 
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Rikokrates

Juve
Jul 9, 2019
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IMO, it's not even a matter of whether it would be imbalanced: there's too much that's broken about Enforcers .
Just out of curiosity, what else do you think is broken about them? I haven't played a game with or against them yet and I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
 

Jumbley

Black And White Son Of A Gun
Honored Tribesman
Sep 5, 2019
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Just out of curiosity, what else do you think is broken about them? I haven't played a game with or against them yet and I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
In another thread, I actually posted a document I wrote regarding the various issues I found from reading these forums and other sources, and some proposed solutions. I'll link it here as well:
Please feel free to offer any thoughts and feedback you had on the doc, anything you might add, etc.
 

Rikokrates

Juve
Jul 9, 2019
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Please feel free to offer any thoughts and feedback you had on the doc, anything you might add, etc.
I like that document, it really makes more sense, I mean with the omission of the magnacles! What the huck!? It really looks like there wasn't a lot of proof reading and no campaign crossover discussion.

I like the idea of enforcers running a protection racket, i mean, it is grim dark right? There are no good guys.

I defo think they shouldn't be able to gain access to the trading post but I feel they should have an alternative your suggestion of supplies being sent intermittently sounds like a fluff friendly solution.

One thing I think would be really cool would be if an enforcer gang could go rogue, corrupt cops getting involved in all sorts of bad stuff!