Equipping Muties (Tactica)

Discussion in 'GorkaMorka' started by Ben_S, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    I've finally started building a Mutie mob, having had the intention for years. But I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to equip them and haven't found much help online. (There are a couple of older threads here, which I have read, but I was hoping for more.)

    Here, to get the ball rolling, are my initial thoughts...

    Unks vs Snagas. I'd like a bit of a mix, for variety. The skill tables (and the official models) make it seem like the Snagas are for shooting and the Unks for combat. I'm not convinced this works best. The Unks are stronger, but actually less likely to win combat, compared to Snagas (with A2 and I3). I think Snagas are better used for combat. I guess an Unk with close combat weapon has more chance of damaging a vehicle, but only if he gets chance.

    Specialists or Jack-Of-All-Trades? I assume everyone wants some kind of gun and, as Muties don't have access to pistols, this means you can't really build a close combat specialist. I suppose you could try something like Falchion + Glaive + Grenades, but this doesn't look too promising to me. You could go for a dedicated shooter, but I'm guessing everyone wants a gun and a hth weapon as soon as possible. (Perhaps it's not practical to start the campaign like this, and by late campaign some may have developed into a specialist role, but this is my assumption for early-mid campaign.)

    Holy weapons. The Jezail on high power can make a mess of Ork vehicles - but I don't like relying on 1 Sustained Fire dice (too likely to Jam!) and there's the risk of explosion too. The Fusil is possibly interesting. Only S4, but the blast means multiple hits on a vehicle, which gives more chance of doing damage. I'm not immediately convinced these are 'must haves' but I suppose you'll struggle to penetrate vehicle armour without them.

    Seeker - has to be included anyway and with BS4 and T4 I think he's the best bet for your biggest gun (rather than the Keeper).

    Keeper - also has WS and BS4, plus the ability to ignore his first failed ammo roll. Not being wholly persuaded of the merits of Holy weapons though, I'd be tempted to try skipping the Keeper in favour of more Snagas/Unks. If I do take one, I might try using him with an Arqueba. The 6+ ammo roll is less of a problem and having WS4 means getting in to 12" range is less dangerous too.

    Gunz. Anyone can carry an Arqueba which is quite scary with S5, but the short range and 6+ ammo roll make it less attractive (imho). I assume the main shooting weapons will be Arbalasts and Calivers. They are pretty similar; the Caliver costs an extra toof and loses 6" of range, in return for 1 Sustained Fire dice and an extra -1 save modifier. I doubt the save modifier will matter often and, as noted above, I don't much like weapons with 1 SF. I think I'll favour Arbalasts as my main firearm, for the longer range and cheaper cost.

    HTH weapons. The Glaive is the cheapest, but I don't think the extra injury dice is really worth the extra cost (compared to a basic choppa, which sadly isn't an option). I'd favour either the Falchion or the Demilune, both of which give you more chance of winning combat (either by allowing a block or by preventing secondary attacker bonuses). The Demilune is probably more useful for those intending to get close to the enemy, who may run the risk of being surrounded. The Falchion is probably more useful for those who will pick their own fights.

    Grenades. I rarely use grenades in Necromunda or Gorkamorka, but giving one or two models Krak grenades will be useful if having difficulty against vehicles. Since these are fairly expensive, I'd rather put them on the more survivable Unks. This suggests Krak grenade and Demilune as a potential weapon option, possibly even skipping a proper gun.
    Flamekebab likes this.
  2. Oddsox

    Oddsox Ganger

    Here is a copy paste of a build I came up with for general purpose playing for a guy who asked a few weeks ago.

    Seeker with Arbalast 21
    Keeper with Jezail and armored with Habergeon 26
    Unk with Arbalast 13
    Unk with Arbalast 13
    Snaga with Arbalast 13
    Snaga with Arbalast 13
    Total 99 Teef

    Reasons for this build. Only Seekers and Keepers may use holy weapons, however, they are too expensive to get 2 to begin with. I prefer the Jezail and would give it to the Keeper as he also has BS4 but has the Weapon Expert special rule allowing him to ignore the first failed ammo check, and the Seeker does not.

    Next you consider the tactics. Muties are too few in number to get involved in big melees. Their stats are marginally better than an Ork but theyre just not tough enough from the start unless you pay out for armor, which again, you cant afford for all your guys. So the best bet is to stick to shooting as your guns are really good, and you can move really far.

    The unit with the big gun is obviously going to attract the most attention, so they need some armor. Everyone else is fine without. Although Arbalasts are the cheapest gun for Muties, theyre 24" range with STR 4 and a 4+ ammo roll. This means that all your guns hit hard and are effective outside of the normal range of everything for an Ork.

    With the list below, use your movement to get behind the enemy vehicles where you can, and where you cant stay 18-24 inches away and let loose with shooting. Its a no melee build, but in an emergency charge in an Unks followed by Snagas and then everyone else. If one guy gets bogged down, get them out fast. As you get more income, get a holy weapon for your seeker, followed by armor for people, and then either secondary guns or melee weapons or grenades, whatever extra spin you want.
    Flamekebab and Ben_S like this.
  3. Oddsox

    Oddsox Ganger

    To address some of the points you made regarding Unks vs Snagas.. it would seem to me that due to the skills table, you are right in that Unks are intended to be the close combat guys and Snagas the shooting. I would say that with Muties your guns are so good that you really need to use it as much as possible and that close combat is pretty dodgy for you.

    With that in consideration, I'd say that youd probably be mad not to have more Snagas than Unks unless you are considering a more open option for later specialisation. I might have just one Unk who charges in to get my shooters out of a jam if they end up in close combat. If a Snaga was to get a WS increase then having a demilune on them seems the natural choice. You'd have a gun on them anyway, meaning they cant get the additional attack from multiple close combat weapons.

    Cont later.
    Flamekebab and Ben_S like this.
  4. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    Thanks for your contributions. Just the sort of advice I'm looking for, as a potential new Mutie player. (I hope it was clear that my comments above were thinking out loud and not based on years - or even weeks - of experience!)

    I'm glad to know that my hunch was right here, although I'd find it a bit depressing to have 5 out of 6 models all armed with the same gun. When playing these games, I do like a bit of variety. Although I suppose it simplifies matters for your opponent if you can simply say 'everyone bar this one has an Arbalast'. That could be important given that WYSIWYG is likely to go out of the window...

    Yes, I recognise that advantage - which is probably especially important with the jezzail (ignoring the ammo roll would protect you from the explosion on high power I assume). Although, if you're worried about being a target, I'd have thought the T4 guy would keep your holy weapon a bit safer. Also, if you only take one holy weapon, I'm not sure whether the Keeper is really an auto-include.

    Both these comments seem to assume that Unks can do what they're supposed to, which isn't so clear to me. I may well find them useful - they're more durable and stronger - but they don't actually seem well equipped to win in melee until they get some upgrades. The Snagas are actually better at winning combat (although they won't hit as hard when they do, and can't take it as well when they don't).
    Flamekebab likes this.
  5. Oddsox

    Oddsox Ganger

    I totally understand, and yeah it is a bit boring. Personally I wouldnt go for it just because I also like the variety. There are other great guns on offer and I forgot to mention part of the reason why I had the cheapest gun on all of the guys was to squeeze a 6th member in there, otherwise it would he normal to start with 5.

    What I thought here is that if you end up in CC or shot by a big gun, youve made a mistake (sometimes it cant be avoided altogether but as Muties youre not going to win every fight). You cant avoid all other guns, but theyre all usually str 3, especially at the start. Therefore having a harbergeon gives a 50% reduction to wounding hits as they dont have an armor save modifier. I would say that Muties would hopefully all end up with a big off armor eventually anyway.

    Youre right, but I wouldnt really be trying any CC at all if I have the options open until I get upgrades in. In a situation where my shooter was bogged down, I would use the Snaga for the first round of combat to take advantage of the init and 2 As, then the secondary attacker bonus and the charge bonus helps my Unk really get in there. You cant get around the skills issue, so Snagas are too limited. Sacrifices must be made!
    Flamekebab and Ben_S like this.
  6. Kon-rad

    Kon-rad Gang Champion

    I played Muties a couple times this year. My list was (I think)

    First game was a disaster. The Orks got to play Attackers in a Gotcha scenario. Rolled up, Scorcha, failed bottle roll, over in half a turn.
    Next game, was Da Trap. I got lucky swooped in from a convenient board edge, and got a lucky shot and blew up the defending track. In that case, I did end up in a lot of hand to hand, as the surviving (but rather scorched) boyz came charging out of the wreckage. Harbergeon saved my bacon that time and I forced them to bottle before reinforcements showed up. Lucky.
    The moral is, the scenario is very important, and sometimes the dice will condemn you to a quick, flaming loss and there is nothing you can do. Muties are very challenging, very chancy, and very unforgiving.

    Seeker- Arbalast, Falchion
    Keeper-Jezail- Glaive
    2 Snaggaz-Arbalast, one with Glaive
    All in Harbergeon

    My thinking was , to only take 4, so I would could voluntarily bottle out as soon as possible. Cheesy, but you can't afford to take any losses. My buddy played Muties years back, got a dead Snagga 1st game and it crippled his mob for the entire campaign. I agree with Ben S. Muties have no business in Hand to hand. Even with those fancy melee weapons, it's too easy to get stuck and overwhelmed. That being said, realize it's also really hard to take out vehicles with just shooting. Usually vehicles get wrecked by rams and collisions. Having no vehicles, you can't do that and makes it a real challenge. Also, you can't really outmaneuver the Orks. That 7" move does not turn out to be that fast with a truck Thrusting acrosss the board at you. Hide in the rocks, snipe off Boyz who are running about grabbing scrap, run away and expect to lose the game. Seriously. A Mutie victory is any game where no one gets a permanent injury. Pick your fights carefully. You can usually choose the scenario, so pick ones that will be hard for your opponent. Magod guard and protect you.
  7. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    I played against Muties back in the '90s when playing GoMo at school. One of my friends had a lovingly painted Mutie mob (I can't remember whether they were converted or just the stock models, but he was probably the only one with a painted mob) and I killed his Keeper first game. I think the thing to do then is just to reboot.

    Cunning thought there about the small numbers, though it does make any casualties even worse. I was wondering whether it was better to start out with as many bodies as possible (6, maybe even 7) on the basis that you can buy more equipment later in the campaign, but it will be hard to save up for a new Snaga.
    Flamekebab likes this.
  8. Oddsox

    Oddsox Ganger

    Dont forget that Muties can actually move 8 and run 16. That is pretty good. The advantage is pressed best in the change of direction and the fact they can run and shoot.
    Aulenback, Ben_S and Flamekebab like this.
  9. Flamekebab

    Flamekebab Gang Hero
    Gorkamorka Warboss

    Some absolutely cracking discussion going on here, chaps!

    Something I've not seen anyone really explore is kustomisin' Mutie weapons. It's an option that might help further down the line.
    Ben_S likes this.
  10. Kon-rad

    Kon-rad Gang Champion

    Ah, my bad. Every inch helps. But still be careful. A Trukk is still faster on average and much more survivable than a T3 or 4 Mutie.

    We never saw it either. Early casualties crippled my buddy's mob. Our experience was teef were pretty scarce and Muties allow for a low margin of error. Big gamble. As it is, I rarely kustumize anything asides from maybe a making a vehicle Harder or Faster, S6 Big Shootaz and S5 Scorchaz are always worth it, but asides from that, teef are better spent elsewhere. But maybe I'm too careful and conservative .
  11. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    I've been doing some thinking about starting rosters.

    You have 100 teef, but the Seeker is compulsory, so that leaves 82 'discretionary' teef, with which to equip him and to hire the rest of your mob.

    You could hire someone without a weapon, or with only a Glaive, but that seems a bad idea. So I'll work on the assumption that the minimum cost of a recruit is 13 teef, i.e. Snaga/Unk with Arbalast.

    So, as an absolute maximum, you could hire six of those (6x13=78) and buy a gun for your Seeker. This would give you the maximum number of bodies possible (without resorting to running them weaponless), but it does leave you short on equipment, in particular meaning no holy weapons or grenades.

    Running five Snagas/Unks (at 65 teef) would leave you with 17 teef to be used for a) equipping your Seeker, b) buying extra equipment for these guys, and c) possibly upgrading one to a Keeper (2 extra teef). So, I think that's a reasonable 'starting point' to work from when thinking about mob creation.

    Of course, it's not the only way to go. You may want to go down the route of sticking to only four models, as suggested above. (The worry there is that if that means Seeker, Keeper and two Snagas, and you bottle with one Snaga OOA, you only have one Snaga to earn income.) But I think it's the basis that I'd work on.
    ThreeDice and Flamekebab like this.
  12. Oddsox

    Oddsox Ganger

    If I was going to run a general 'hit and run' style list I'd go for this...

    Seeker - Arbalast 21
    Keeper - Jezail, Cuirass 25
    Unk - Demilune 13
    Snaga - Caliver 14
    Snaga - Caliver 14
    Snaga - Arbalast 13

    This totals 100 teef and gives you six members. I think this is a good number to start with. Now my playstyle for Muties would be to seperate into two teams and to purely play the objective / get the scrap. I'm going to stay as close to the edge as I can so I can just run off the board to safety, and my mob would operate in 2 groups.

    Group 1 would be Seeker, Keeper, Snaga w Arbalast. These guys are my long range group, keeping to cover and scaring the opponent's vehicles enough to keep them away.

    Group 2 is the Snagas w Calivers and the Unk. Unk runs in to grab the scrap and Snagas blast anything which they can before all running away sharpish.

    Ideally both groups would remain within 16" of each other and prioritise survival over all else until you've progressed to multiple armored guys and that sort of thing.
    ThreeDice, Ben_S and Flamekebab like this.
  13. Kon-rad

    Kon-rad Gang Champion

    Ooooh! This is right kunnin!. Having a tough guy for grabbing scrap is a nice touch. My thinking was Arbalasts over Calivers just for the range, but hey 6" is just one Thrust move. If the Orks want to get to you, they can probably get to you.
  14. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    One more Thrust move - the more they make, the more they fail. And it all depends whether they're facing the right direction to begin with, or whether they want to head towards you (rather than, say, towards scrap or a table edge).
    ThreeDice likes this.
  15. Aulenback

    Aulenback Gang Hero

    Remember that Unks, with their higher strength, and decent ballistic skill, will be a good vehicle for grenades as well, especially given that Mutie grenades are more accurate than ork stikkbombz. When running 16", Unks can then throw a Krak grenade a good distance with decent accuracy, and even if he misses, "stikkbombz wild" and the grenade accuracy rule means you are still likely to hit the vehicle you are aiming at.
    Ben_S likes this.
  16. Zeebogie

    Zeebogie Ganger

    so my standard mutie run for a starting mob is
    Seeker - Fusil
    Keeper - Jezail and Fusil
    3 Snagas with Calivers
    total 98 teef

    I don't bother with hth weapons until someone gets either toughness or wound upgrades as I don't like the risk, generally I find that the keeper will take out a vehicle pretty quickly and having the two heavy guns on him almost makes for mobs actively trying to avoid him (they see one volley then realise he's got a nasty backup when the seeker shoots),

    I take calivers as I find the sustained fire is more of an advantage to the extra 6" an Arbalast gives and is safer than how close you have to get for the Arqueba (generally you will find more pistols than shootas and kannons are trying to fire back so 18" with 16" movement is more than enuogh). The one downside of this run is that your Keeper getting captured can totally break a campaign due to mutie weapons selling at full price so even if you rescue him there is now a 36teef difference between yours and the capturing mob (believe me ive had this happen and actually then had my seeker captured during the rescue, captured is by far the worst roll for mutie keepers) and you will more than likely never recover and if it happens early on then the mob that got the bonus 18teef will usually be the steamroller
    Ben_S likes this.
  17. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    Interesting - I hadn't realised that the captors get to keep his equipment, even if he's successfully rescued.

    I just checked the scenario and it doesn't seem to specify what happens to his equipment either way. Since he doesn't have it on him, I suppose the captors keeping it is a natural assumption, but in NCE his weapons and equipment are rescued along with him. That's an addition to the ORB (which, like Gorkamorka, says nothing) but I don't know where it came from.
  18. Zeebogie

    Zeebogie Ganger

    So RAW captured fighters retain their if they are traded or ransomed otherwise it goes to the capturing mob and they are put to work in the mines (or weirdly with mutes justleft indefinitely as somehow "put to the knife at the first opportunity..." doesn't translate to a single rescue attempt
  19. Ben_S

    Ben_S Hive Guilder
    Honored Tribesman

    RAW it's unspecified, as far as I can see. (The captured injury result says they retain their weapons if traded or ransomed and that the captors keep the weapons if they're put to work in the mine. It doesn't say what happens if they're rescued and nor does the scenario.)

    I've posted this as a query in the FAQ thread, to avoid derailing this one any further.

    Do you really think Fusil and Jezail is an efficient use of teef?
    Zeebogie likes this.
  20. Zeebogie

    Zeebogie Ganger

    Haha yeah just saw that post, having two guys which can rain down heavy fire constantly is massive from what I've seen, your keeper having a jezail is a no brainer to me as it is devastating with the free ammo check you can basically always fire high power (remember most games are only 5 turns so that's really only 3 turns shooting on an alternate fire) and having the fusil for the off turn just makes him terrifying.

    With two holy/heavy weapon guys that can fire ever turn splits the attention of the other mob so they won't just charge your keeper as the seeker can come up from another angle
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