N18 Escher Chem-alchemy

Lord 83

Juve
Apr 22, 2022
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So I'm building my first Necromunda Gang, a House Escher one and I really like the Chem-alchemy mechanic, but I have a question:
Can I buy Elixirs when I found the gang? In the Chem-alchemy section it says "When an Escher gang visits the Trading Post during the post-battle sequence,..." so I would think I can't buy any until I have played at least one game. But that just seems like an arbitrary and weird limitation. Am I missing something?
 
Sadly I think you are interpreting correctly, and yes it is a weird (and annoying) limitation.

I’ve been tempted to house rule it in our group that Escher can buy some Chems at foundation (probably a limited number) but received push back previously so haven’t bothered since. Might re-fight that one…
 
It feels to me like the Escher chem rules need a rework in general.
I don't have enough experience playing with chems yet to be sure but it seems like they have been unnecessarily made less accessible to Escher. Perhaps they are just so good that they need to be very tightly controlled? Can a long time Escher player give some thoughts on this?

Literally the chem gang and they can't access chems right away and they have to continually buy them even though they are the ones manufacturing them, their toxin weapons are a poor early loadout choice because of this, making starting gangs either dull because you have to go for an effective roster with the standard gear or you lean into the toxin/gas gear and immediately put yourself at a fairly major disadvantage. And respirators are a cheap nerf to gas so anyone in a campaign with Escher can easily constrict your options for a handful of creds.

Being able to buy them right away would seem an obvious improvement. Escher being able to buy them much cheaper would seem logical as well.

Owning a chymist currently reduces the cost of buying chems but perhaps they could learn recipes in some way, giving you free access to a specific chem, or improving the potency of them?
On a similar thought, perhaps chemsynths can be upgraded to produce a specific chem in addition to the current potency boost, giving a character access to their favourite chem once per game?

Acidic could have a chance to destroy a respirator rather than just bypass it. (Seriously, giving everyone access to a 15CR item that basically turns off gas as an option is just frustrating!)
 
the escher chems are in isolation one of the weakest gang traits, however they also got death maidens who are nails, so as a gang they are okay.

their toxin weapons are a poor early loadout choice because of this
I dont understand this, their toxin weapons arent bad, they are identical to everyone elses, and they have easy access to chem synths as well. but anyway, thats a who different conversation.

(Seriously, giving everyone access to a 15CR item that basically turns off gas as an option is just frustrating!)
so you would spend...150 creds (and rating) so give you the ability to ignore... one, maybe 2 weapons? against a single enemy gang? Man, you must have some bad gangs, with the anti blaze armour (to counter cawdor), night vision (to counter delaque), gas masks (to counter escher), thats getting on for 50 creds per fighter, plus I guess you would want drop rigs to counter falling.

Yes, it can be countered, and yes, if you are in a 2 gang campaign, it sucks as the one opponant can list tailor. BUT, thats not feasible normally, and the only time I've seen such things is when there is a delaque gang running around turning the lights off that others have invested in night vision. Toxin has never caused that reaction that I've seen, or heard about.

Okay, all that aside, to the OP:

technically yeah, no chems at start as others ahve said, however its a marginal thing, personally I dont see the big deal with having them (and even hiring a hanger on) at gang creation. Personally I'd wait until you can get the chemist though, and then view the d3*10 creds she generates as your 'budget' for chems, that just keeps being what you can take in chems the following game. Nothing major, but some nice extra bits here and there.
 
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Personally I'd wait until you can get the chemist though, and then view the d3*10 creds she generates as your 'budget' for chems,
Just checking if this was a typo on your behalf or the info from a previous version.

In the Second Printing of HoB the Clan Chymist can reduce the cost of Elixirs by D6x10 to a minimum of 10 creds. Rollable each time an elixir is purchased.

That’s pretty significant; a potential 60 creds discount would allow you to really build up a concoction which otherwise would be silly expensive and get it for 10 creds.
 
Just checking if this was a typo on your behalf or the info from a previous version.

In the Second Printing of HoB the Clan Chymist can reduce the cost of Elixirs by D6x10 to a minimum of 10 creds. Rollable each time an elixir is purchased.

That’s pretty significant; a potential 60 creds discount would allow you to really build up a concoction which otherwise would be silly expensive and get it for 10 creds.
The reduction has always been D6x10, the chymist also has fixer which is where the D3 comes from as a budget.
these 2 abilities combined means that the chymist can theoretically pay for herself in one game and is then generating money for you every game after that
 
The reduction has always been D6x10, the chymist also has fixer which is where the D3 comes from as a budget.
these 2 abilities combined means that the chymist can theoretically pay for herself in one game and is then generating money for you every game after that
Oh so it’s an f-ing skill, right, that got confusing there. I never even noticed she had one.
Now if it had said “…then view the d3*10 creds she generates from the fixer skill as your 'budget' for chems,” I’d get it, coz I just assumed it was the text on her page being referred to like a dopey bugger. 🤪

Incidentally, this is why I hate these “reference this other rule elsewhere” type of systems, it’s so easy to overlook or forget about them.

But I’m going to waggle my finger at GW for making me have to play “research the bibliography reference” rather than the actual game.

Apologies to @spafe for doubting you. I’m getting too old and lazy to remember all this stuff.
 
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Now if it had said “…then view the d3*10 creds she generates from the fixer skill as your 'budget' for chems,” I’d get it,
you're completely correct, i should have been clearer and referenced the skill.... Buuuuutttt, I couldnt remember what it was called! I was typing from work without my books so knew she generated her own cash, but havent got each skill name committed to memory. Jsut me being lazy and not checking online/elsewhere before typing.
 
So the process to buy chem alchemy is you have to have the credits first to buy the full price chem(combination or not)then you roll a dx6 x 10 for reduction with the apprentice clan chemist. Correct? This means your buying the chem no matter what and just get to see the reduction of price.

Ex: So a combination chem might be 60 creds and you have to have 60 creds to purchase then clan chemist reduces the price.

The method is not,You pick out a chem combination you like, then roll a d6 x 10 to see if you can afford it? Then not buy it if you cannot afford it...?
 
It feels to me like the Escher chem rules need a rework in general.
I don't have enough experience playing with chems yet to be sure but it seems like they have been unnecessarily made less accessible to Escher. Perhaps they are just so good that they need to be very tightly controlled? Can a long time Escher player give some thoughts on this?

Literally the chem gang and they can't access chems right away and they have to continually buy them even though they are the ones manufacturing them, their toxin weapons are a poor early loadout choice because of this, making starting gangs either dull because you have to go for an effective roster with the standard gear or you lean into the toxin/gas gear and immediately put yourself at a fairly major disadvantage. And respirators are a cheap nerf to gas so anyone in a campaign with Escher can easily constrict your options for a handful of creds.

Being able to buy them right away would seem an obvious improvement. Escher being able to buy them much cheaper would seem logical as well.

Owning a chymist currently reduces the cost of buying chems but perhaps they could learn recipes in some way, giving you free access to a specific chem, or improving the potency of them?
On a similar thought, perhaps chemsynths can be upgraded to produce a specific chem in addition to the current potency boost, giving a character access to their favourite chem once per game?

Acidic could have a chance to destroy a respirator rather than just bypass it. (Seriously, giving everyone access to a 15CR item that basically turns off gas as an option is just frustrating!)
As a long time Escher player the main beef I have with the Chem system is that it's so expensive and inaccessible without an expensive weapon and expensive hanger on, especially when compared to say Cawdor that get their house "ability" for free or Goliath that just pay once for powerful upgrades.

Imo the stimms are fine as they are but the gas and toxic ammunition should be a new profile with the limited and scarce trait. So you pay once, use it till it runs out and have to buy more.
 
A nice thing on chem alchemy is the trading it allows. You don't get that with other house traits. But you need players that actually want to buy the chems.
It's not allowed normally, it's an optional rule suggestion that an arbitrator may or may not permit.
 
  • Connected Trader: A Connected Trader has spent a lifetime building up a web of contacts they can use to move items. If a gang has a Connected Trader then once per post-battle sequence for each Connected Trader they control, they may double the credits they gain for selling items in their Stash. In addition, they may freely trade credits and items in their Stash with other gangs participating in the same campaign; note that both gangs must agree in order for a trade to happen.
The Underhive Trader hanger-on. But that doesn't suggest that the receiving gang will get access to the Administer Dose (Simple) action, the way the Escher do. They may be stuck using Use Chem (Simple) the way everyone else does? That limits users to fighters who can carry the wargear themselves, where Eschers can apply it to a willing fighter within a short range instead.
 
The Chemical Reign and Gifts of the Matron tactics cards go a long way to helping out in the early campaign. No credits, no planning ahead, and no increase to your gang rating (which is an unwanted side effect of carrying a lot of chems). I rarely take anything else when I can choose the cards.
 
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