N18 Escher Gang critique for Dominion Campaign

[NorSoSavvy]

So, me and my buddies are starting a friendly Dominion campaign, and I'm going to be running Eschers. So far it looks like the other gangs are going to be a Genestealer Cult, Goliaths, Suppressor heavy Enforcers and Cawdor. My working list is:

Gang Queen: Combi-Plasma, Chainsword, Mesh Armour, Inspirational
Matriarch: Needle Rifle, Chem Synth, Mesh Armour, Spring Up
Deathmaiden: 2 Stiletto Swords, Throwing Knives, Chem Synth, Mesh Armour, Combat Virtuoso
Specialist Sister: Grenade Launcher with Frag, Krak and Smoke, Flak Armour
Sister: Lasrifle, Flak Armour, Photon Flash Grenade
Sister: Lasrifle, Flak Armour
Little Sister: Stubgun, Autopistol, Flak Armour, Photon Flash Grenade

Basic idea is for the Queen, Death Maiden and the Little Sister to go head hunting for champions and gang leaders, while the Matriarch and Specialist go after concentrations, and the two las sisters fill in where needed (and obviously missions with lower model counts get played by ear focusing on the first group as priority). But with both Goliaths and Enforcers on the docket, I'm wondering if just the plasmagun on the queen and the Krak grenades from the launcher are enough to deal with high armour, high toughness opponents. Should I invest in a better armour cracker like a Plasma Cannon instead of the needle rifle? The needle rifle's decent against the Enforcers with the AP-2, and would be fun to have on missions with stealth, but I think it's a bit mixed against the Goliaths.

 

[HugeSamples]

7 members is too few.

Drop all the flak armor it's not worth the points. -4x flak armor gives you 40 credits.
Drop the throwing knives on the death maiden and pick up a needle pistol later. -1x throwing knives gives you 5 credits.
Drop one of the pistols on the little sister, likely the auto pistol. -1x auto pistol gives you 10 credits.
Drop the photon flash off the lasgun sister, she's unlikely to be in range to use it. -1x photon flash gives you 15 credits.

You now have 70 credits to buy another fighter or two.

Go for 8 fighters minimum, the closer to 10 the better.

I haven't been impressed with the combi-weapons. I'd go either a boltgun or plasma gun on your leader. I'd also think of upgrading the chain sword to a chain axe (it's strictly better). I tend to like a shock whip on my leader and a weapon of opportunity.

 

[Heart of Storm]

So, to answer the thoughts in your comments, you have enough armour breaking to start, nobody is going to bring a starting gang thats going to have so much armour your struggle to break it with the weapons you have. Plasma cannons are cool but need a suspensor to really shine, and that's a lot of up front cost for something thats not hugely stronger than a plasma gun.

Gas is a hard counter to armour, and something you can do all sorts of extra shenanigans with as Escher, it can also be countered but if your opponent is loading up on respirators they're not buying carapace armour.

As for the list, personally I'd drop the knives and a sword on the Maiden and go straight for a needle pistol, has the same effect of an extra attack and some ranged ability but costs less and is better at the ranged bit. I'd also be inclined to put Spring Up on her to start rather than Virtuoso, you can replace the Spring Up on your Matriarch with Dodge if your trying to avoid repetition to make her more resilient to shooting.

Flak armour is a trap, I'd second HugeSamples advice and drop the lot, get Mesh when you can afford it but armour for mooks isn't a starting list priority.

I'd drop the Photon flash from the lasgunner, she's going to be hanging out at the 18" range mark ideally all game so shouldn't be getting into grenade range, keep that for someone who's getting in close or save the creds

Not a fan of dual pistols on juves, it looks cool but they can't handle the -1 to hit with their BS, she'd be far more dangerous with a stiletto knife or, if her role is to just catch bullets for your characters, keep her dirt cheap with just a stub guns.

Agree with Huge on trying to squeeze and extra body in, an ideal choice would be a ganger with a Shotgun to go with your maiden/leader. S4/D2 is pretty nasty in early campaign and means Champions will need to avoid her until they start getting toughness increases and armour, she can also upgrade to Acid rounds in future which keeps her relevant in later games.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Gang Queen: Combi-Plasma, Chainsword, Mesh Armour, Inspirational
Matriarch: Needle Rifle, Chem Synth, Mesh Armour, Spring Up
Deathmaiden: 2 Stiletto Swords, Throwing Knives, Chem Synth, Mesh Armour, Combat Virtuoso
Specialist Sister: Grenade Launcher with Frag, Krak and Smoke, Flak Armour
Sister: Lasrifle, Flak Armour, Photon Flash Grenade
Sister: Lasrifle, Flak Armour
Little Sister: Stubgun, Autopistol, Flak Armour, Photon Flash Grenade

Either get a bolter or a Plasma gun if you want that sort of thing on the Queen. Every six shots on average, more with a Click tactic card floating around and all Psykers including genestealers have ways to get powers to cause ammo checks, you will need to roll double 6s to avoid jamming the bolter and reloading it and technically because of the poor wording of "apply the worst result" it can be read as causing the Scarce plasma gun profile to go out of ammo too. ( It's a ingrained grammatical error in the combi rules that could be solved by adding the words "for that profile" after "the worst result". It is clear what GW intended for the Combi rule from the rest of the section but it is not what the rule actually says because they skipped three words). Assuming you play it RAI having to roll double 5+ on a Scarce profile is really bad anyway.
The Death Maiden doesn't need the throwing knives to start, or the chem synth with her poison blood rules giving her a toxin boost anyway, the credits can go into the gangs funds for more fighters. Both are advisable choices on the murder tornado later though.
Flack armour is utter Garbage. Never take it. You only gain from it when being hit by templates/blasts while mesh always has a better save for only 5 credits more. Most template/blast weapons have at least AP-1 anyway cancelling out the flack protection.dave the Credits for more sisters.
Photon flash grenades are nice but a later purchase. Get more sisters.
Duel pistol builds need a higher BS to pull off.

But with both Goliaths and Enforcers on the docket, I'm wondering if just the plasmagun on the queen and the Krak grenades from the launcher are enough to deal with high armour, high toughness opponents.

The Combi plasma profile has the exact same AP and D as the bolter and the weapon is practically impossible to reload for either profile. Unless the Goliaths double down on Dermal hardening etc to boost toughness (which is BORING. BOO!), there is only a little difference between S5 and 4 against T4 and non between T3 which is the majority of your opponents. Either just go bolter and save many credits for more sisters or go full plasma gun (again saving some credits) which gives you the option of better AP D and enough S to really punch through T3 opponents and solidly take care of higher T as well.
The Krak grenade launcher is great at routine AP and High T hunting. The only two downsides are the 6+ ammo, although you mitigate it when Reloading if you have a 4+ grenade like your smoke grenades (you can use any available ammo to reload the entire gun), and it's other downside is too much choice.

Should I invest in a better armour cracker like a Plasma Cannon instead of the needle rifle? The needle rifle's decent against the Enforcers with the AP-2, and would be fun to have on missions with stealth, but I think it's a bit mixed against the Goliaths.

Chem synths mitigate some high Toughness and you could get a autogun sister with the aim to get Rad rounds so you can throw out flesh wounds lowering toughness to aid Toxin weapons. Just on equipment prices it's cheaper that a heavy weapon.
Alternatively get a clan chymist to go down the alchemy route which has many toughness bypassing effects. The Fixer skill on the Chymist effectively pays for a fighters alchemy ammo every game.

Fear the wall of text!!!!

 

[Psyan]

Either get a bolter or a Plasma gun if you want that sort of thing on the Queen. Every six shots on average, more with a Click tactic card floating around and all Psykers including genestealers have ways to get powers to cause ammo checks, you will need to roll double 6s to avoid jamming the bolter and reloading it and technically because of the poor wording of "apply the worst result" it can be read as causing the Scarce plasma gun profile to go out of ammo too. ( It's a ingrained grammatical error in the combi rules that could be solved by adding the words "for that profile" after "the worst result". It is clear what GW intended for the Combi rule from the rest of the section but it is not what the rule actually says because they skipped three words). Assuming you play it RAI having to roll double 5+ on a Scarce profile is really bad anyway.
The Death Maiden doesn't need the throwing knives to start, or the chem synth with her poison blood rules giving her a toxin boost anyway, the credits can go into the gangs funds for more fighters. Both are advisable choices on the murder tornado later though.
Flack armour is utter Garbage. Never take it. You only gain from it when being hit by templates/blasts while mesh always has a better save for only 5 credits more. Most template/blast weapons have at least AP-1 anyway cancelling out the flack protection.dave the Credits for more sisters.
Photon flash grenades are nice but a later purchase. Get more sisters.
Duel pistol builds need a higher BS to pull off.

The Combi plasma profile has the exact same AP and D as the bolter and the weapon is practically impossible to reload for either profile. Unless the Goliaths double down on Dermal hardening etc to boost toughness (which is BORING. BOO!), there is only a little difference between S5 and 4 against T4 and non between T3 which is the majority of your opponents. Either just go bolter and save many credits for more sisters or go full plasma gun (again saving some credits) which gives you the option of better AP D and enough S to really punch through T3 opponents and solidly take care of higher T as well.
The Krak grenade launcher is great at routine AP and High T hunting. The only two downsides are the 6+ ammo, although you mitigate it when Reloading if you have a 4+ grenade like your smoke grenades (you can use any available ammo to reload the entire gun), and it's other downside is too much choice.

Chem synths mitigate some high Toughness and you could get a autogun sister with the aim to get Rad rounds so you can throw out flesh wounds lowering toughness to aid Toxin weapons. Just on equipment prices it's cheaper that a heavy weapon.
Alternatively get a clan chymist to go down the alchemy route which has many toughness bypassing effects. The Fixer skill on the Chymist effectively pays for a fighters alchemy ammo every game.

Fear the wall of text!!!!

Your wall of text means I get to come in here and say "Yup! What he said!"