N18 Escher Starting Gang - advice needed!

[Crazyterran]

Hello everyone! Going to start by thanking you for any and all advice for me, I've owned the models for a while, read through the rules and am finally getting to work on building/painting my gang. Here's what I'm thinking of going with after reading a few threads and looking at what I think will look cool - I'm sure it's not anywhere near optimized, but I think it plays into the Escher theme decently well. I do have one main question, but I'll ask after the list.

Toxic Fangs:

Leader: Combi-Needler, Stiletto Sword, Chem Synth

Champion: Shotgun, Power Sword

Champion: Needle Rifle, Stiletto Knife

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Autogun

Ganger: Shotgun, Stiletto Knife

Juve: Auto Pistol, Stiletto Knife

Total: 1000 Credits

My main question is: should I drop one of the Lasgun Gangers to instead give my Needle Rifle Champion a Chem Synth as well, and upgrade her Knife to a Sword? Perhaps also give the shotgun champion a Acid Rounds for that mean sounding Scattershot/Blaze combo. I'm sure I could find something for those 15/30 creds to go into after the upgrades for the Needle champion, but I wasn't sure if the extra body would be better to start with, or the extra reliability on needle rifle. I could also buy one of my other Lasgun girls a Needle Rifle instead of getting Acid Rounds, giving me a starting Special Weapon on a ganger.

Thanks again!

 

[Howie]

Hello everyone! Going to start by thanking you for any and all advice for me, I've owned the models for a while, read through the rules and am finally getting to work on building/painting my gang. Here's what I'm thinking of going with after reading a few threads and looking at what I think will look cool - I'm sure it's not anywhere near optimized, but I think it plays into the Escher theme decently well. I do have one main question, but I'll ask after the list.

Toxic Fangs:

Leader: Combi-Needler, Stiletto Sword, Chem Synth

Champion: Shotgun, Power Sword

Champion: Needle Rifle, Stiletto Knife

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Lasgun

Ganger: Autogun

Ganger: Shotgun, Stiletto Knife

Juve: Auto Pistol, Stiletto Knife

Total: 1000 Credits

My main question is: should I drop one of the Lasgun Gangers to instead give my Needle Rifle Champion a Chem Synth as well, and upgrade her Knife to a Sword? Perhaps also give the shotgun champion a Acid Rounds for that mean sounding Scattershot/Blaze combo. I'm sure I could find something for those 15/30 creds to go into after the upgrades for the Needle champion, but I wasn't sure if the extra body would be better to start with, or the extra reliability on needle rifle. I could also buy one of my other Lasgun girls a Needle Rifle instead of getting Acid Rounds, giving me a starting Special Weapon on a ganger.

Thanks again!

 

[Howie]

Looking good to me! I'd try and get acid ammo on those shotguns tho. Maybe drop the knife on the ganger and find points from sonewheso else.

 

[Lyracian]

I do not think it is worth stRting with Chem Syth. For me that is upgrade gear later. I would want the Champs to all have three Wespons Pistol; Sword/Knife and long ranged Gun.

this is my list.
https://yaktribe.games/underhive/gang/voodoo_dolls_hwl_1000.29900/

You could replace plasma gun with Combi-needler To have similar weapons to yours. With the rules update thinking of replacing Champs Stiletto Knife with Power Knife but that would mean starting without Acid Rounds.

 

[Crazyterran]

Looking good to me! I'd try and get acid ammo on those shotguns tho. Maybe drop the knife on the ganger and find points from sonewheso else.

Yeah that was my main ponder here, finding the creds to get more upgrades. Dropping a Ganger is the only real way I can see to get more Creds.

Can a Ganger take equipment to start? I don’t have my books on me, but for some reason I thought Gangers can only take weapons before the start.

I do not think it is worth stRting with Chem Syth. For me that is upgrade gear later. I would want the Champs to all have three Wespons Pistol; Sword/Knife and long ranged Gun.

this is my list.
https://yaktribe.games/underhive/gang/voodoo_dolls_hwl_1000.29900/

You could replace plasma gun with Combi-needler To have similar weapons to yours. With the rules update thinking of replacing Champs Stiletto Knife with Power Knife but that would mean starting without Acid Rounds.

Yeah, with the Stiletto Knife being nerfed, it’s hard to justify it other than to save creds or on a Juve. I was thinking of making it a power knife, since the dagger is already in the model’s hand. Main thing keeping me from doing so is the toxin/poison/acid theme I kinda want going with my gangs characters.

 

[FlatMattie]

Looking good to me! I'd try and get acid ammo on those shotguns tho. Maybe drop the knife on the ganger and find points from sonewheso else.

I agree, the acid rounds are fantastic as blaze can really disrupt your opponents. If you drop a ganger be sure to take the iron will skill on the leader (if you haven't already)

 

[Crazyterran]

I was originally going with Commanding Presence on the leader, but is Iron Will better? I suppose subtracting from bottling is better than trying to save hangers from fleeing...

Also, my Needler Champion will have spring up, and the shotgun champion will have step aside. Would spring up be better for her as well?

 

[Kairae]

Champs make better Toxin-focussed builds than leaders (+1 Int or +~14% effectiveness of Chem-synths). I'd build my Leader around a power weapon (personally I think Power Knives are better than Power Swords) and maybe a Plasma Gun later (if you're not going the Overseer route). Although, if you drop to 9 fighters you can fit that in straight away.

Shotgun pairs nicely with Toxin (ie. Shotgun + 2 x Stilleto Swords or Shotgun + Needle Pistol + Stilleto Sword) as it wants to be within Choke Grenade range and Acid rounds provide an alternative option for hampering high-T opponents (blaze might not kill them, but it gives you time to focus on the rest of the gang). The multiple ammo types and range bands available to it make it less important to pair it with a pistol.

I think Needle rifle is a bad primary weapon on Champs when Combi Needlers exist. I think its best used as a secondary weapon on Gangers (it elevates an average ganger to being a close-ranged threat to anything in the game).

I agree that you want primary gun + 2 secondary weapons as soon as possible for your Champs, but I think you can get away with skipping it at start and getting it rapidly thereafter (although I am partial to Plasma Pistol two pistol builds). You're looking at ~100 creds of HWL items to fully outfit your champs, so it's not too onerous to achieve after a couple of games.

Re: Skills. I don't think Commanding Presence is worth it. Activating 3 fighters is usually sufficient, and grouping up 4 like that is asking to get templated. I think the best leadership skill for Escher leaders (other than Overseer) is Inspirational. Remember, you can Inspire yourself: an effective re-roll on a cool check for your Leader is great, even if you don't manage to assist anyone else. In Ambush scenarios passing cool checks can make the difference between victory and defeat.

I'd do it like this:
Leader Plasma Gun, Power Knife, Inspiring Presence (235)
Champ Shotgun, Stilleto Sword, Acid Rounds, Spring Up (155)
Champ Combi Needler, Stilleto Sword, Spring Up (205)
4 x Ganger Lasgun (260)
1 x Ganger Autogun (65)
Juve Stilleto Knife, Autopistol (50)

You've got 15 creds free, so you can drop the Acid Rounds and get a Power Sword instead of the Knife.

 

[Crazyterran]

That seems really good, but I kind of want my gang leader to have that bad ass jacket, which using any of the FW plasma guns wouldn't let me have It's a pity they didn't model the 'leader's plasma gun' with the jacket modeled on... unless maybe I cut off the needle pistol, put the plasma gun in the needle pistol hand (she has some bicep strength if she can one hand a plasma gun, though!) and either use the baller chainsword or cut it off for a power sword blade...

The only thing that might be hard to figure out is the Combi-needler, but It probably isn't hard to cut off the jacket parts...

 

[Kairae]

You can drop to a Plasma Pistol and Powersword. Slightly less utility but double Plasma Pistol Escher Champs/leaders are cool. Although really need Spring Up or Overseer to get the most out of.

That might be enough to get the Shotgun ganger instead of the Autogun one.

Personally I think Escher should steer clear of Autoguns.

 

[Crazyterran]

I already cut up the needle rifle and the plasma gun. Not too worried, got myself one of each, haha.

Why do you think Escher should skip Autoguns? Wouldn't having a gun with Rapid Fire help put out some pain, or is it not worth the extra creds?

 

[EAfirstlast]

Escher get a huge benefit with the cheap lasguns and I think lasguns scale better into a campaign as you buy hotshot packs for them

 

[Lyracian]

Why do you think Escher should skip Autoguns? Wouldn't having a gun with Rapid Fire help put out some pain, or is it not worth the extra creds?

As with the other post cheap base price and hotshot upgrade. +1 to hit at 18” with Str 4 is a good damage outputt. Chuck in a couple of acid shotguns for scattershot, Blaine or 2 damage.

 

[Howie]

I'd still go for an autogun just for the variety and fun of it. A line of lasguns makes sense, but isn't the most interesting thing to play or play against. Plus there's always the chance of extreme death with an autogun. My mate's Goliath champ shrugged off all the heavy stuff chucked at him without breaking stride when my lowly ganger took him down in one turn. Lucky, sure, but more fun.

 

[chitching]

I'd put a Chem Thrower on a champion. I find them to be really handy and rely on them to soften up the enemies a bit, especially with a Chem-Synth on it. Get a bunch of Choke Gas Grenades in the mix too. If I'm honest, I don't think the printed card set ups are all that bad for Escher, anyway. Maybe drop a lasgun or two and arm them up with stilleto knives and Stubguns (Stubs are actually pretty good in N17) Then when your enemies are getting weakened by the choke gas and chem thrower, you've got these ones moving up into combat to wipe them up. Be safe, consider a respirator for them, too - just in case they get caught in the gas. If you don't plan on getting up close that much, then those lasguns will see you well for sure.
What house to you tend to play against most? Have that influence your starting set up. If you play anyone but Goliath, the Chem Thrower and Choke gas can be really handy to knock that toughness down. Goliaths have that T4 stat, and if they have a respirator on, it can be pretty tricky to get them with it - that's when your Lasguns will be good for at least keeping them pinned, but your Needler will eat through their armour plating nicely.

 

[Crazyterran]

https://yaktribe.games/underhive/gang/toxic_fangs.37125/

Here's my updated list. I have 10 Creds to spare, not sure if I should get an autogun or find a holstered pistol to stick on my gang leader. Lucky I decided to splurge and get all those bits, though for the Combi-Champ I ended up cutting up a combi weapon from 40k and sticking on the needler attachment, and then cutting off a pistol from an escher hand and attaching it there. It's a bit big on her, but hey, whats Necromunda if it's not a bit ridiculous?

As with the other post cheap base price and hotshot upgrade. +1 to hit at 18” with Str 4 is a good damage outputt. Chuck in a couple of acid shotguns for scattershot, Blaine or 2 damage.

I'd put a Chem Thrower on a champion. I find them to be really handy and rely on them to soften up the enemies a bit, especially with a Chem-Synth on it. Get a bunch of Choke Gas Grenades in the mix too. If I'm honest, I don't think the printed card set ups are all that bad for Escher, anyway. Maybe drop a lasgun or two and arm them up with stilleto knives and Stubguns (Stubs are actually pretty good in N17) Then when your enemies are getting weakened by the choke gas and chem thrower, you've got these ones moving up into combat to wipe them up. Be safe, consider a respirator for them, too - just in case they get caught in the gas. If you don't plan on getting up close that much, then those lasguns will see you well for sure.
What house to you tend to play against most? Have that influence your starting set up. If you play anyone but Goliath, the Chem Thrower and Choke gas can be really handy to knock that toughness down. Goliaths have that T4 stat, and if they have a respirator on, it can be pretty tricky to get them with it - that's when your Lasguns will be good for at least keeping them pinned, but your Needler will eat through their armour plating nicely.

It's my first time in a campaign in my area, so I have no idea what i'll primarily be up against - but you are the first person I've seen recommend the Nightshade thrower! Has it been much improved with N18? I was definitely thinking of getting it on one of my gangers or a future Champion a bit down the line...

 

[chitching]

It's my first time in a campaign in my area, so I have no idea what i'll primarily be up against - but you are the first person I've seen recommend the Nightshade thrower! Has it been much improved with N18? I was definitely thinking of getting it on one of my gangers or a future Champion a bit down the line...

The only real difference with it is that it is now classed as a silent weapon. When I'v played against my brother's Goliaths, they tend to be bunched up, making the most of that multiple combat, so the Chem Thrower can usually hit a couple people - not always effective for me, but sometimes it can be the turning point in that flank. Get a Flamer or something in the mix and you'd be good too, since it's an auto hit and at very least will pin. I've not played other gangs, so my recommendation for the Chem Thrower is based purely on looking at the stats, but even against the increased Toughness of the Goliaths, I'd still be looking at taking one in. I always end up rolling a lot of Flesh Wounds, so over time it becomes pretty handy. Just need to watch out for those Stimm-Slugs that Goliaths can carry, because they'll mess you up - another reason why having range is good against them.

 

[Kairae]

For me Nightshade throwers are ex-Juve upgrade material or on + move Gangers. Without Hipshooting I don't really see them as Champ material. They're not bad per se they're just very expensive given how cheap respirators are as a reaponse on key taegets.

But for an ex-Juve. +2 Move, Sprint. Other skills / upgrades to taste. Hell it might even be worth getting an Int upgrade for better Chem-synth performance. Paired with a skill/tactic that allows additional activations and it's extremely vicious.

 

[MusingWarboss]

That seems really good, but I kind of want my gang leader to have that bad ass jacket, which using any of the FW plasma guns wouldn't let me have It's a pity they didn't model the 'leader's plasma gun' with the jacket modeled on... unless maybe I cut off the needle pistol, put the plasma gun in the needle pistol hand (she has some bicep strength if she can one hand a plasma gun, though!) and either use the baller chainsword or cut it off for a power sword blade...

The only thing that might be hard to figure out is the Combi-needler, but It probably isn't hard to cut off the jacket parts...

If you’re willing to cut then it should be relatively easy to remove the sleeve from the right arm, trim, fill and glue over the plasma gun arm.

All conversions are a bit fiddly and the first 20% is having the conviction to slice up your expensive stuff. Have faith in the idea and go with it!!

 

[Crazyterran]

I have cut up some stuff and did make my combi-needler out of a FW Combi-melta and the needle part of the combi-bolter. The only thing it's missing is the badass escher eye, but you win some and you lose some!

Also managed to make the plasma gun. The guns a bit big, but it looks great imo!

Working on painting now - three girls down, six to go!