N18 Escher "The Dragonflies"

Bracer

Ganger
Jul 26, 2022
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Hi guys, fairly new yak here. Just wanted to run by you my list. I must say that its intended to turn up the flavor, unlike my old Venators which win all the time. However, yes of course i want it to be optimised, and be the best escher list that i can be.

"The Dragonflies"
Queen 125: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Tox (Maddening) 5, Tox (Concentrated) 15, Lasgun 5, Servo Claw 35, [250pts] (Overseer)

Deathmaiden 115: Mesh 15, Blood Rush x1 15, Plasma pistol 50, Venom Claw 30, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Frag Boobytrap 20, [250pts] (Spring up)

Bounty Hunter M5 (the fast one) 80: Displacer field 70, Flechette Pistol x2 60, Chem Synth 15, Stubgun 5, [80pts] (Evade)

Sister Specialist 50: Mesh 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Tox (Maddening) 5, Tox (Concentrated) 15, Lasgun 5 [130pts] Remember to aim!

Sister 50: Mesh 15, Shotgun 30, Blood Rush 15, [110pts]

Sister 50: Mesh 15, Shotgun 30, Blood Rush 15 [110pts]

Juvie 20: Flash Grenade 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Stubgun 5, [65pts]


Strategies:
- Juvie: Basically intended as a flash grenade transportation device and a cheap objective monkey, she also has a stiletto to make use of that 4+WS and if she scores a wound the paralyzing will allow her to make a coup de gras easily. She doesn't really deserve flak but heavy cover isnt so hard to find.
- Sisters: as many on here well attest the solid shot shotgun is a solid option, blood rush is there for the lols.
- Specialist: Exists with one purpose in mind, beaning some characters and either getting them paralysed for someone to coup de gras or turning them reckless so they shoot their own dudes with that expensive weapon you spent over a hundred points on. Becoming billy no-mates because youre reckless along with a weapon with a range of 40" like a heavy stubber is cheezy as hell and i love it. The lack of rapid fire in my team is somewhat offset by most of their weapons being D2 or paralyze.
- Bounty hunter: I bought some Phyrr cats because i like the model, but 120pts is way over priced for something with only 1 wound and t3. So instead my Bounty hunter is counts-as. I specifically like the pairing of Displacer Field with Evade, so the cat can basically dodge most fire and be immune (like my cat). The twin flechettes are there just because my mates expecting me to bring tox and i cant disappoint, obviously twin guns blazing at effectively str4 is nice, just imagine that when catto gets into close combat that all those shots are bites and claws. I also have 2 flachettes on a sprue so it made sense to use them. I plan to make a saddle for the cat and glue one to each side.
- Death Maiden: Unless your going all-in on making a plasma matriarch your probably gonna want the Iron Maiden, plasma pistol is there to ensure she can shoot one guy and charge a different guy in the turn. Fragbooby is there to slow down my opponent. Spring up paired with blood rush is a nice combo; reduce a wound to nothing and then stand back up as a free action has got to be scary on something T4.
- Queen: Ah yes i call mine "Winehouse", im not really sure what i was going for tbh. Shes doing the same job as the specialist but also has a servo claw to deal out 3 hits of damage 2. She can use overseer to boost someone elses shots, maybe the Bounty hunter. If anyone has any ideas for alternate queen builts please drop them in.

I call my custom Toxin: "Munches Anxiety", because it can paralyze and drive you mad at the same time.

So yeah, thats the list. Now tear me apart like soft bread!
 
If this is a one off list, it looks fun, like a lot of fun. Personally i'd still be trying to fit some chem synths in to make the toxin hit harder, but thats being picky.

If this is a campaign list... its terrible. The bounty hunter... are you paying for her weapons right? to that is one expensive as heck model that will bugger off in a game or 2. Likewise all those chems... they are single game only and need to be rebought. rough advice if this is for a campaign game, drop those and buy chem synths, then invest in the chymist hanger on after game 1 and get a steady supply of chems from her (fixer skill on her being the budget to chem your gang each game). Then drop the bounty hunter and replace with a champ for longer term investment.
 
If this is a one off list, it looks fun, like a lot of fun. Personally i'd still be trying to fit some chem synths in to make the toxin hit harder, but thats being picky.

If this is a campaign list... its terrible. The bounty hunter... are you paying for her weapons right? to that is one expensive as heck model that will bugger off in a game or 2. Likewise all those chems... they are single game only and need to be rebought. rough advice if this is for a campaign game, drop those and buy chem synths, then invest in the chymist hanger on after game 1 and get a steady supply of chems from her (fixer skill on her being the budget to chem your gang each game). Then drop the bounty hunter and replace with a champ for longer term investment.
My local game scene suffers from "persistent amnesia", which means, whenever someone loses a game they want to start over, change their starting list etc so no one ever gains any skill. So for me the Bounty makes some sense as a way to annoy them if they do this. However, i thought that bounty hunters dont buy equipment from the gang credit pool. Am i wrong? I thought this was done deliberately because they are likely walk off after first game. If its my credits then i'll need to make some changes to my list, probably drop the Displacer Field for a start.

The Toxins im actually not too worried about. If i ever manage to get to a second game then a few five credit toxins arnt going to break the bank. Sure i'll have to drop ones like Concentrated, but these are intended to be one shot wonders anyway... maybe i should swap out the concentrated for chem synths considering they cost the same and arnt perishable.
 
Actually i just checked goonhammer and an FAQ said you have to pay for bounties equipment with your own credits. I'll see if i can salvage my cat idea.
 
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However, i thought that bounty hunters dont buy equipment from the gang credit pool. Am i wrong?
yep, sadly them and hive scum have to be bought weapons (which they then walk off with) from your stash. Its why they are never taken unless you get them for free from somewhere (territory, tactic card, other)
 
Ok new build. I put the most work into the bounty as she will be representing my cat. The evade skill will give up to -2 to hit aswell as -2 from the chemelioline cloak. This means i will move-move her up to a hallway or gap or something and sit her in the middle of it and wait. Anything that comes down the hallway can try shooting at -4, she will then rattle away with s4 autopistols and charge the closest thing with a venom claw. Though she lacks armour, she isnt lacking for flavour... maybe i should exchange the claw for some armour... Of course she is an expensive choice but YOU ONLY LIFE ONCE!!!

"The Dragonflies 1.1"

Queen 125: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Maddening) 5, Lasgun 5, Servo Claw 35, [230pts] (Overseer)

Deathmaiden 115: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Plasma pistol 50, Venom Claw 30, Tox (Paralysing) 5, [230pts] (Spring up)

Bounty Hunter M5 (the fast one) 80: Chemelioline cloak 35, Reclaimed Autopistol x2 10, Autopistol man stopper rounds x2 20, Venom claw 30, [175pts] (Evade) (Random Skill)

Sister Specialist 50: Mesh 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Lasgun 5 [110pts] Remember to aim!

Sister 50: Mesh 15, Shotgun 30 [110pts]

Juvie 20: Blood Rush 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Reclaimed auto pistol 5 [65pts]

Juvie 20: Blood Rush 15, Flash Grenade 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Reclaimed auto pistol 5, [60pts]
 
Fixed the points cost because yaktribe wont let me edit a post...

"The Dragonflies 1.2"

Queen 125: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Maddening) 5, Lasgun 5, Servo Claw 35, [235pts] (Overseer)

Deathmaiden 115: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Plasma pistol 50, Venom Claw 30, Tox (Paralysing) 5, [230pts] (Spring up)

Bounty Hunter M5 (the fast one) 80: Chemelioline cloak 35, Reclaimed Autopistol x2 10, Autopistol man stopper rounds x2 20, Venom claw 30, [175pts] (Evade) (Random Skill)

Sister Specialist 50: Mesh 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Lasgun 5 [110pts] Remember to aim!

Sister 50: Mesh 15, Shotgun 30 [95pts]

Juvie 20: Blood Rush 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Auto pistol 10 [75pts]

Juvie 20: Blood Rush 15, Flash Grenade 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Reclaimed auto pistol 5, [80pts]
 
Why Overseer on the Leader? She's tooled up for murder, so why waste her activations boosting other models?

Overseer is powerful, but it needs to have a purpose, either your using it to launch melee threats up the point, or to let big guns fire twice in a turn, after you've boosted the maiden what else is your leader using her skill for?
 
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"The Dragonflies 1.3"

Queen 125: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Maddening) 5, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Lasgun 5, Servo Claw 35, [235pts] (Sprint)

Matriarch 100: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Combi Bolt pistol-Needle pistol 60, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Lasgun 5, [200pts] (Sprint)

Matriarch 100: Mesh 15, Blood Rush 15, Combi Bolt pistol-Needle pistol 60, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Lasgun 5, [200pts] (Sprint)

Sister Specialist 50: Mesh 15, Needle Rifle 35, Tox (Maddening) 5, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Lasgun 5, [115pts] Remember to aim!

Sister 50: Mesh 15, Shotgun 30 [95pts]

Juvie 20: Blood Rush 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Reclaimed auto pistol 5, [65pts]

Juvie 20: Blood Rush 15, Stiletto Knife 20, Tox (Paralysing) 5, Reclaimed auto pistol 5, [65pts]

The Juvies are represented by my two Phyrr cats. They are pretty modestly armed but with two blood rush each they can certainly take some punishment. They are mostly there for flavor. They will be modeled with some pistols. Ideally as some kind of servo-skull controlled saddle. I wanted some kind of badass laspistol for them but there's nothing i can really do.

The Matriarchs and Queen have been changed. They can all sprint now. Ideally the ability to move 18" in one turn will mean they can dominate all the best firing lines on the board. The bolt pistol/needle pistol is there because its so incredibly cheap and gives them two sorts of ammo. The lasgun is just there as its cheap and can pin a fool. I mean a 2+ BS is scary enough, even if its only S3. The heavy weapons are the pistol so they'll have to close in. This isnt too annoying because on zone mortalis most of the hallways will favour the pistol anyways.

I could still replace the juvies with sisters but then i'd loose the two blood rushs and gain nothing in toughness or strength. So im tempted to keep them. I could also turn the matriarchs into death maidens but their inability to handle basic weapons is kind of a downer.
 
So this third list struggles with range, your fighting at a 12-18" range here so you'll be strongly affected by board size and cover, sprint mitigates that to a degree but remember that most gangs will be shooting you from 24" away.

I'm not sold on the combi bolt/needle pistols on the matriarch and the toxin loadouts, they'd be more effective, both cost wise and as models with boltguns - as it stands theyre very expensive and don't bring a lot to the table.

If you want to get into melee, Spring Up is THE Agility choice to make, so I'd consider that for your leader with that Servo claw
 
So this third list struggles with range, your fighting at a 12-18" range here so you'll be strongly affected by board size and cover, sprint mitigates that to a degree but remember that most gangs will be shooting you from 24" away.

I'm not sold on the combi bolt/needle pistols on the matriarch and the toxin loadouts, they'd be more effective, both cost wise and as models with boltguns - as it stands theyre very expensive and don't bring a lot to the table.

If you want to get into melee, Spring Up is THE Agility choice to make, so I'd consider that for your leader with that Servo claw
Ive already thought of all of these considerations.

Yes a boltgun is obviously meta. My first gang was Venators and i packed them with boltguns and long rifles. But i grew tired of this. I desired more flavor, especially in the form of versatility, like the kind i get from chems. The whole purpose of the sprint is as a cheap form of infiltrating that can be used after the initial first turn. Its dual purpose is to allow me to get into tox weapon range to showcase my gangs abilities. I decided that the scarce quality on a needle weapon was too injurious so only should be used in conjunction with a backup weapon. Sure i suppose i could take needle-boltguns but these are pricy and lose a point of AP for no apparent reason. With this in mind the boltpistol needle pistol is the hair apparent, especially as it would cost 70 points to buy this indevidually. The bolt pistol in particular can be used with special ammo, like shatter rounds. Which adds versatility. When you realise that eschers main ability is tox and all tox weapons are medium range it becomes clear that they are a gang that really shines at medium range, if you want to pack a list with boltguns, just go for another gang entirely, preferably one that can take fast shot... like venators, everything else will just be a pale imitation. HOWEVER, blood rush is hilariously cheap for eschers and can really annoy someone in a way that other gangs cannot. The only side that really has a chance with melee is probably goliath as they have t4, again, everything else is just a pale imitation. But the more i look at the rules the more i think that necromunda is a ranged weapon game. Building an escher list with tons of spring up might allow them to maybe get into melee once. But after they thoroughly slap that guy around they suddenly are going to be standing around outside of cover waiting to get shot a second time, which is probably going to be the last time aswell. I like melee, especially as a way to hide from shooting phases by being in melee with someone else, and if the opponent doesnt have trick shot then they cant really do anything. To this end the bolt pistol needle pistol works perfectly as it can still fire in melee. It also has a range of 12" outside which is really not too shabby. I mean. I think i can make it work. In the past ive been able to squeeze allot out of 16" solid shot shotgun, which is basically the same as a bolt round. In conclusion, let me re-emphasize the usefulness of sprint. Games like chess arnt fought in damage, they are fought in threats. If a single pawn can threaten to take two others, even if it has only one move, it effectively shuts down those two other pawns, making the opponent afraid to move them. How much the more so for games like necromunda that use terrain and hallways. If i sprint up to the corner of a building with a -2 heavy cover bonus. I can effectively shut down the opponent's moves. If i can do this not just once but 3 times and can do it a further 3 times after in the next turn (if i survive) i... will win the game. Especially if my juves are scoring the objectives like carrying crates and the like in the background. And what weapon do i need to shut down a hallway or gap in a building? Well a 12" pistol could easily do that as it will stop anything moving close. Sure the opponent could bring a load of 24" range weapons. But if they are planning to spend a turn sitting back 24" away and holding the trigger down, they are going to need to spend at the very least 2 turns moving 12" just to get near the objective again. In the big game of rock paper scissors that we find ourselves in, i think i can make a play. Which is nice because it could easly have turned out that you cant make a winning list out of escher no matter what you do.
 
Uhm... i know that people generally refuse things like plasma cannons and multimeltas... but considering vehicles are now a thing, has anyone changed their position on the issue?
 
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Uhm... i know that people generally refuse things like plasma cannons and multimeltas... but considering vehicles are now a thing, has anyone changed their position on the issue?
I'm totally going to rock a plasma cannon. The weapon itself is a good price, only drawback is having to dish out the extra 60 for suspensors, which isn't that bad since it's a fairly good long range weapon.

Now, for Escher specifically, I think the magic of plasma cannons is that you can use the night night chem on the plas cannon champ/leader and then actually be free to use the maximal setting (getting a S8, ap-2, 3damage, 3" blast) without causing serious injuries to that model because of unstable. Still risky losing it to OOA, but there are definitely scenarios where the risk is worth the reward.
 
I'm totally going to rock a plasma cannon. The weapon itself is a good price, only drawback is having to dish out the extra 60 for suspensors, which isn't that bad since it's a fairly good long range weapon.

Now, for Escher specifically, I think the magic of plasma cannons is that you can use the night night chem on the plas cannon champ/leader and then actually be free to use the maximal setting (getting a S8, ap-2, 3damage, 3" blast) without causing serious injuries to that model because of unstable. Still risky losing it to OOA, but there are definitely scenarios where the risk is worth the reward.
Ive been mulling long and hard about what you have said here.

At first i came to the idea that this would work better on twin plasma pistols on max and also plasma cannon on max. But not on plasma gun because if you roll two hits on the firepower dice this will develop 4 wounds as opposed to the 3 promised with the max setting profile. The plasma pistols twin guns blazing will develop 6! wounds on max. And the plasma cannon will develop a meager 3 wounds on max but there is an extremely slim chance that something else will be in 3" range, almost no real point in even considering it... not bunching up models within 3" is nearly the first thing you learn in necromunda and its almost impossible to do with vehicles in ash wastes.

I have concluded that the strength of the plasma cannon blast weapon isnt attractive enough to warrant an attempt at shooting it on max (even with night night). When you compare this plasma cannon profile to other heavy weapons that do this better you begin to find allot of attractive options (missile launcher, grav cannon, heavy bolter). I wouldn't necessarily stay wedded to the idea of the plasma cannon just because its a house list weapon. For me the perfect weapon would be a 5" template with some nasty stats. For that price id gladly risk OOA. But it turns out that grav cannons dont need it.

I even experimented with the idea of unstable traits on non plasma weapons gained from the rogue factoria alliance. In this scenario, we get closer to the ideal, as a cheaply purchased grav cannon night night combo could work really well.

I must reward you for brining this combo to my attention.

So here is a little combo i worked out of my own:

[edit] also i suppose an unstable auto cannon is the true daddy of the game.
 
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You are correct. Unstable is terrible. A slight increase in damage output is not worth a 1/12 risk of taking your most expensive fighter off the board.
Hi, thanks for helping.

I personally am not worried about a 1/12 chance. I could, for example, only fire the unstable once every game, for 12 games. This would yeild a much higher win ratio of, lets say, 50% for the low cost of an unstable. Id be winning atleast 6 games or more but guaranteeing losing only 1. This is why the rules were created.

For example, my local meta for regular 40k, the elite players who sometimes use teams of death guard with maybe one plasma pistol in a squad will never fail to overcharge. Because its just 1 plasma pistol. If it was, lets say, 6 plasma pistols then you'd be guaranteeing killing one of your models.

This is why im willing to accept the bargain. On the condition of; 1.) great BS rolls 2.) an actually useful profile like rapid 2 or blast 5" 3.) at least D2.
 
As I just said on another thread, I only put a Plasma weapon on high for funsies and excitement. Sure it hits harder than normal, but probability-wise, it's a bad bet. I don't use any full-time Unstable weapons; they're just not worth the OOA and injury risks.
 
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