N18 Exotic Beast Rules and house rules

[SirWalterManny]

So, looking at including Phyrr and Phelynx cats in an Escher gang. Am I understanding rules for exotic pets correctly:

1. RAW, when activating with owner, usually the owner would have to activate first, as if the pet activates first it cant move to be out of 3”/9” distance without risking a nerve test after moving (and before their owner can join them). So usually you dont want them to charge in first.
2. When a fighter and pets activate, if they all wished to charge the same enemy fighter:
   1. if the cat charged first it has to charge, fight, then take any reaction hits (if the enemy is still standing), and then if still alive, they may have to test to break if out of 3” range before their owning fighter gets to activate (and join them).
   2. if the fighter charges first, less chance of cats having to test to break (if they move towards their owning fighter)… but their fighter cant gain assists in combat as pets will only charge after the fighters activation has fully resolved. Only the pets would gain assists.

This really reduced the effectiveness of pets, and doesn’t really feel like they are assisting or protecting their owner.

POSSIBLE HOUSE RULES

If all above is correct, has anyone tried house ruling this in any way? I’d be interested to hear how if so, and if applied to all/some exotic pets only.

One idea: when making a group activation with pets (and specifically only with pets), you can make actions in any order (so could charge with each model, then make the free fight action with each model in turn). Would that be too strong potentially?

(Also, add in some rule to limit which actions a pet can take… e.g., no attempts to open doors, carry loot caskets or hack terminals - might allow defecating on gang icons).

 

[TopsyKretts]

(Also, add in some rule to limit which actions a pet can take… e.g., no attempts to open doors, carry loot caskets or hack terminals - might allow defecating on gang icons).

That's a tall order to put in writing, must be over 100 special actions by now?

 

[SirWalterManny]

That's a tall order to put in writing, must be over 100 special actions by now?

Fair. So more likely a better approach would be to indicate which actions a per ups do, and keep this simple with a low number of the most basic actions (move, charge, fight, evade, crawl through ductway etc. ).

Only added that sentence after spotting other thread where it was flagged there are no rules which actually exclude a pet from attempting or completing any action (except where they have no BS characteristic).

 

[TopsyKretts]

That would be easier, but still require some work. For example you want to include all actions related to psychic powers, as we have pet that is psyker. For Shoot/Aim/Reload, that's luckily not applicable yet since no pets have ranged weapons. The only "pet" with ranged options is the orlock special character one, and it specifically work as a normal fighter (not a pet). I'm sure there are many other weird cases regarding defining a limited list of actions that all pets can do. Any action granted by a skill should be allowed. All in all I think it would be better to just simplify it and say pets can do all things a fighter can do.

Also, many things a fighter can do outside of actions. Assisting in recovery rolls has been mentioned, I think it's fine for pets to do this (maybe awkward for a sump croc to lick the wounds of its owner, but hey, there are bigger issues).

And just to make it more complicated, it would be nice to have a ruling whether pets are faction fighters or not. That affects a whole range of interactions, as discussed here:

N18 - Faction keyword definition - starting to matter!

This topic is about Faction keyword used in Necromunda and what its exact definitions are. First of all, what is all this? A lot of rules will mentioned " fighter". This was, as far as I can see, introduced in N20 (House of books). This will be referred to here as 'Faction fighter'. Examples...

yaktribe.games

So far I think pets should not be faction fighters.

 

[BearsWillEatYou]

The Van Saar pet can also shoot, though it's a Scare and Template weapon so no need to worry about the other two shooting actions you mentioned.

 

[SirWalterManny]

Fair. Maybe accepting a trained Phyrr cat can activate a door terminal and then go prone is the simpler option…

Just to pull back thread to what I had as main query:

So, looking at including Phyrr and Phelynx cats in an Escher gang. Am I understanding rules for exotic pets correctly:

1. RAW, when activating with owner, usually the owner would have to activate first, as if the pet activates first it cant move to be out of 3”/9” distance without risking a nerve test after moving (and before their owner can join them). So usually you dont want them to charge in first.
2. When a fighter and pets activate, if they all wished to charge the same enemy fighter:
   1. if the cat charged first it has to charge, fight, then take any reaction hits (if the enemy is still standing), and then if still alive, they may have to test to break if out of 3” range before their owning fighter gets to activate (and join them).
   2. if the fighter charges first, less chance of cats having to test to break (if they move towards their owning fighter)… but their fighter cant gain assists in combat as pets will only charge after the fighters activation has fully resolved. Only the pets would gain assists.

This really reduced the effectiveness of pets, and doesn’t really feel like they are assisting or protecting their owner.

POSSIBLE HOUSE RULES

If all above is correct, has anyone tried house ruling this in any way? I’d be interested to hear how if so, and if applied to all/some exotic pets only.

 

[TopsyKretts]

The overlapping actions sounds messy. Mix the order of any combinations of actions for owner and pet(s)? For example: owner move, pet move, owner shoot/fight, pet shoot/fight. If I were to house rule it the simplest way possible, I'd just declare that the pet must remain within range of owner after the owner's group activation is finished.

 

[daKing]

Yeah just move the nerve test to the beginning of the pets activation instead of the end so it gives the fighter a chance to get close with the pet after it charges

 

[JawRippa]

It'll take more than that to make pet at least somewhat useful:

1. Make the "leash" rules 6" for all pets. 3" is too restrictive imo.
2. Pets do not have to test CL when in base to base with an enemy. This makes pets useful even for shooters, who can sick a pet and attempt running away.
3. Price drops on anything that is not Cyber-mastiff.

Then I could consider getting an occasional pet.

 

[JayTee]

We changed pets to:

1. Only nerve test at the end of the pseudo-Group Activation
2. Tweaked some pets to be a bit more thematic/fun so Phelynx give your Wyld Runners Infiltrate
3. Halved the price on most pets (50 creds for a Rat? Get out of town)

Pets are largely excellent models let down by shoddy rules, and we wanted people who had spent time and done some really nice looking pets, to actually be able to use them without handicapping themselves.

 

[SirWalterManny]

Like some of these:

Amend leash/break rule to:

”At the start of any group activation of which includes an Exotic Beast, the Exotic Beast must be within 4" of their owner. If the Exotic Beast is more than 4" away at the start of the group activation, it must pass a Nerve test or become broken unless it is engaged with an enemy fighter”

(I agree that 3” can be too restrictive, but 6” felt to much, in particular if owner had multiple pets)

Amend costs (not quite all halved - still not sure if familiars are too cheap, but will encourage use of cool models):

Chaos Familiar: (25)
Psychic Familiar: (25)

Giant Rat: (25)
Phelynx Cat: (25)
Psykoteric Wyrm: (35)

Cephalopod Spekter: (50)
Cherub-servitor: (55) (Edited back up from 30 creds after re-reading rules; had thought was just tbe same as the two familiars, but its definitely not!)
Cyber-mastiff: (50)
Cyberachnid: (40)
Grapplehawk: (45)
Hacked Cyber-mastiff: (50)
Sheen Bird: (45)

Gyrinx cat: (60)
Hardcase Cyber-mastiff: (70)
Phyrr Cat: (65)
Sumpkroc (65)

My only worry is I just havent used/seen used enough to assess if these are more appropriately costed for what they bring to the gang - but do agree at current prices, just discourage use as nearly always a ‘better’ or ‘more urgent’ option.

And yes, agree mixing up activations probably opens up possible confusion or unexpected clashes/combos, so simpler to avoid.