Experience for ramming / collateral damage / etc.

MiniWarGaming

Juve
Yak Philanthropist
How do you allocate experience for the following situations?

1. A vehicle rams another vehicle and does 3 damage, resulting in 3 automatic penetrating hits.

Does the driver get 15 XP? 5 XP? 0 XP?

2. A target vehicle of a head on collision causes 4 damage, resulting in 4 automatic penetrating hits.

Does the driver of the target vehicle (i.e. not the one who initiated the ram) get 20 XP? 5 XP? 0 XP?

3. A vehicle rams another vehicle, does 1 penetrating hit, which then hits a crew and causes a wound from shrapnel.

Does the driver of the target vehicle get 10 XP? 5 XP? 0 XP?

4. Someone shoots a gun at a vehicle, penetrates, and wounds a driver / crew member.

Does the shooter get 5 XP or 10 XP (i.e. 1 for penetrating, 1 for wounding)?

Thanks!

Matthew Glanfield
https://www.miniwargaming.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zeebogie

Flamekebab

Gang Hero
Gorkamorka Warboss
Feb 17, 2011
933
1,869
113
32
Rotherham, UK
fox-box.co.uk
Looking over these there's no canonical answer. Make a call and stick to it (and let us know what you decided!).

There's quite a lot of issues like this with the original rules (we're doing our best to deal with them in GCE!) and to the best of my knowledge there's never been an official answer. We tended to play that experience points are awarded for intentional damage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zeebogie

CaptainDangerous

Chaotic-good 2nd Company Captain
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2016
2,374
7,905
233
Durham, uk
My experience is mainly Necromunda but the mechanics are basically the same.

-only intentional wounding hits gain experience (inc. flesh wounds)
-only 5 experience is awarded, regardless of how many wounds are inflicted in a single attack

1. 5
2. 0
3. 0
4. 5
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tiny

Zeebogie

Ganger
Nov 13, 2016
208
312
73
Melbourne, Australia
So in true fashion GW as @Flamekebab has said its really open to how you read the rules but in general with any groups I've played with or seen it played with its as follows with driver meaning is driving when the ram took place not necessarily the listed driver

1. 15xp for the driver who initiated the ram

2. 20xp for the driver who initiated, none for the driver of the other vehicle no matter how much damage is inflicted on the ramming vehicle, if the collision is with a stationary object (e.g wrecked (not just immobilised) vehicle, terrain) then no one gets any experience for being a dud

3.5xp Driver would only count has one pen (wound is the result of the pen) however if the damage had caused multiple injuries then the driver would get 5xp for the pen plus whatever experience they would normally get for the extra wounding hits (e.g vehicle explodes causes 4 wounds on crew after its all worked out would be 25xp)

4. 5xp unless it is a template weapon and then things get complicated if you hit the crew

General rule is that each penetrating hit only scores 5xp except for a 6 on Engines where there is the chance to cause more than 1 wound
 

Tiny

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Jul 12, 2011
2,501
5,423
178
South Wales, UK
www.tinyworlds.co.uk
I would go with @CaptainDangerous explanation as above (although his assessment of point 3 seems a little weird as the hit caused damage). Multiple wounds from a single shot in Necromunda only count as a single wounding hit so should only give a single amount of XP, not multiple.

1 - 5
2 - 0 (target gets nothing, rammer would get 5 if they caused damage)
3 - 5
4 - 5

This seems to also be the only fair way of stopping drivers from running away with insane amounts of XP in each game.
 

CaptainDangerous

Chaotic-good 2nd Company Captain
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2016
2,374
7,905
233
Durham, uk
The question for no.3 is would a fighter on a ramming vehicle, wounded from the collision, give exp. to the driver of the rammed vehicle.
The answer is no because the shrapnel is unintentional.

If a fighter gained 20+ exp. in a single game would be a legendary act, to earn it in a single action is..... well.....
so gorkamorka come to think of it! :LOL::p
 

Tiny

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Jul 12, 2011
2,501
5,423
178
South Wales, UK
www.tinyworlds.co.uk
The question for no.3 is would a fighter on a ramming vehicle, wounded from the collision, give exp. to the driver of the rammed vehicle.
The answer is no because the shrapnel is unintentional.
It is still a direct result of "wounding" the vehicle. It is a wounding hit on the vehicle, not on the crewman.
 

Zeebogie

Ganger
Nov 13, 2016
208
312
73
Melbourne, Australia
Drivers do tend to get alot if xp but that is the balance for the risk of destroying your own vehicle in the process (remember that only a shunt avoids damage to the rammer) In reality for alot of vehicles (no gubbinz) that translates to more than a 1 in 6 chance of the vehicle getting immobilised and a 1 in 18 chance of being destroyed abd that isnt even counting the odds of spinning and hiting something else

Add to that that every rammed vehicle gets the chance to dodge and aside from ramming immobilised vehicles to farm xp (which would only be once every two turns after a slow speed to reverse) and it is really bot that big an issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaptainDangerous

CaptainDangerous

Chaotic-good 2nd Company Captain
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2016
2,374
7,905
233
Durham, uk
I obviously play hard mode :p

I totally see where you both come from, like, if I were to crash into (random yak) radulykan and the resultant damage tore through my best bud clockworkorange who was sat beside me, radulykan would totally still be bragging about it down the drinking hole that evening, even though he was essentially the victim!
 

Tiny

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Jul 12, 2011
2,501
5,423
178
South Wales, UK
www.tinyworlds.co.uk
Drivers do tend to get alot if xp but that is the balance for the risk of destroying your own vehicle in the process
In my last game, the drivers of my 2 vehicles got a total of 37xp between them. That is a lot. Both gained 2 levels each. That is using 1 damage causing ram = 5xp. Using 1 damage roll = 5xp, they would have gained around 75xp. That is too much. Yes, both my vehicles were heavily damaged due to my negligent attitude, but that doesn't mean fighters should just get tons of xp.
 

Zeebogie

Ganger
Nov 13, 2016
208
312
73
Melbourne, Australia
Gaining 4+ levels in your first game is silly though and will cause issues in an ongoing campaign. Something which is unlikely to happen in NCE but can happen easily in GoMo.
It doesnt really cause issues though, drivers are rarely doing anything other than driving and shooting a pistol so them gaining massive xp iant a huge deal.

It really only affects the outlier mobs Rebel Grots who rarely ram and Muties who have no vehicles but majority of gangs will be orks so in relation to a campaign it balances out as almost every mob has access to it
 

Tiny

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Jul 12, 2011
2,501
5,423
178
South Wales, UK
www.tinyworlds.co.uk
It doesnt really cause issues though, drivers are rarely doing anything other than driving and shooting a pistol so them gaining massive xp iant a huge deal.
Other fighters can take over as driver if yours gets to BS6. Then the next fighter can start gaining huge xp.

Makes no sense to just live with an obviously silly system when the workaround is so simple.
 

Zeebogie

Ganger
Nov 13, 2016
208
312
73
Melbourne, Australia
Other fighters can take over as driver if yours gets to BS6. Then the next fighter can start gaining huge xp.
To swap drivers you would have to have a pit fight which logically the driver is more likely to win then the unexperienced fighter and again requires you taking the risk of maiming one of your mobsters through serious injury

And to be honest if someone was going to use the tactics you've suggested they are likely the sort of player who wouldn't last long being invited to play in campaigns anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaptainDangerous

Tiny

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Jul 12, 2011
2,501
5,423
178
South Wales, UK
www.tinyworlds.co.uk
And to be honest if someone was going to use the tactics you've suggested they are likely the sort of player who wouldn't last long being invited to play in campaigns anyway.
If there is a way to game the system, it is better to remove it than to judge players for using it. No point in creating arguments mid-campaign. Who decides which tactics are ok and which aren't?
 

Zeebogie

Ganger
Nov 13, 2016
208
312
73
Melbourne, Australia
If there is a way to game the system, it is better to remove it than to judge players for using it.....
Personally I disagree with that statement as in my opinion people that will 'game' the system rather than having fun and following the 'narrative' (e.g swapping out a driver to farm xp as opposed to swapponv out because one is a dud or someone else is better suited now) are generally a pain to play with anyway.

But each to their own I guess if you prefer to sterilise the rules to eliminate the possibility its your gaming groups choice.

And 37xp between two people really isn't that much in my opinion, generally in either Necro or Gorka I find most fighters who have actively been in the battle and done something come away with 15xp or more regardless. To put it in perspective our current campaign my Mutie Keeper has a s8 jezail bs upgrade and can pick his targets through a skill so basically gets D3 instapens every time he shoots at a vehicle, he regularly gets 30xp even before he got the upgrades he was still raking in xp as any hit on a vehicle that wasn't engines is still an auto pen for a S7 weapon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaptainDangerous

Tiny

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Jul 12, 2011
2,501
5,423
178
South Wales, UK
www.tinyworlds.co.uk
But each to their own I guess if you prefer to sterilise the rules to eliminate the possibility its your gaming groups choice.
Its not sterilising the rules. It is my interpretation of how the rules are written. You can play by yours as much as you like.

And 37xp between two people really isn't that much in my opinion
That is in one game, using my interpretation of the rules. Under your interpretation of the rules they would have had that much per fighter, at least, and would each have gained 5 levels in their first game, which is frankly ridiculous.

my Mutie Keeper has a s8 jezail bs upgrade and can pick his targets through a skill so basically gets D3 instapens every time he shoots at a vehicle, he regularly gets 30xp
...and you see nothing wrong with that? Fair enough.

I would see that as "gaming the system". Purposely going for such a weapon to farm as much xp as possible.

You're playing it wrong in terms of "rules as intended" in my opinion but your campaign is yours to run as you see fit.