N18 Fast Shot and Vision Ark

[ch3weh]

If you have the Fast Shot skill, can you take two different shots in different vision arcs?

So for example:

Ganger with Fast Shot:
1) Shot One: Shoots a ganger in front of him
2) Shot Two: Turns around and shoots somebody behind him

Ends turn facing the person he last shot at.

OR, is it:
1) Shot One: Shoots guy in front of him.
2) His vision arc is now locked and cannot shoot anyone outside his vision arc for the 2nd shot.

Thanks

 

[BranBuccarcher]

If your first shot has done it's work I wouldn't see any problem turning to shoot another target as you may not even have anything in the original 90 degrees to target depending on how much success/cover you have.
With my dice I generally have to use the 2nd shot on the first target and hope the flesh wounds stack up if I actually manage to do more than just pin them...

 

[TopsyKretts]

A Standing fighter can turn to face any direction when activated, before making actions. I would assume that you can't change facing between 2 shoot actions, and this limitation is intended as something the opponent can exploit?

 

[Vonvilkee]

A Standing fighter can turn to face any direction when activated, before making actions. I would assume that you can't change facing between 2 shoot actions, and this limitation is intended as something the opponent can exploit?

This is correct, you can also change facing during move actions.

Shooting requires you to pick a target in your fighter's vision arc. Shoot does not allow a change of facing.

You get one "free" change of facing at the beginning of the activation. You do not get a change of facing any ol' time you want. Multiple shoot actions is super powerful, so it is fair that your opponent can play around it by putting fewer fighters in the fast shooter's sights.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

Before making "either of their actions" is the correct sentence. Changing facing in this way does not count as moving, and therefore be combined with any other action.

Pretty clear you can turn before either action.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yeah looks like an update in N21! Either I forgot or didn't notice that before. It seems now you can indeed change facing before any action, however supposedly only during a full activation, and not in any out-of-sync bonus action?

 

[BranBuccarcher]

Prime example of that would be overwatch where they would have to be in the 90 vision arc or unable to use the skill.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Before making "either of their actions" is the correct sentence. Changing facing in this way does not count as moving, and therefore be combined with any other action.

Pretty clear you can turn before either action.

But only one free "change facing" per activation, correct? I might be getting pedantic here but cutting down on fast shot just a little bit in this way matters to me. I have a little bit of trauma from Van Saar fast shooters on planet bowling ball from way back before we had enough terrain...

 

[BranBuccarcher]

Fast shot makes shooting a simple action from a basic so I'm afraid they can change face per simple action, scarily in theory if you had the tactic or skill that nets you an extra action that could be three shots all in different directions...

 

[Aulenback]

Also worth noting that the chosen wording [intended or not] not only affects out-of-Activation actions like Overwatch, it could/should also affect out-of-Activation actions like Overseer?

No free turn-to-face on the two actions granted by Overseer, but only for the Overseer themselves. Because Overseer explicitly doesn't grant an Activation, but only two actions. Huh. So Overseer folks only get facing changes in a Move action? Am I reading that right?

 

[Beebopalulla]

Also worth noting that the chosen wording [intended or not] not only affects out-of-Activation actions like Overwatch, it could/should also affect out-of-Activation actions like Overseer?

No free turn-to-face on the two actions granted by Overseer, but only for the Overseer themselves. Because Overseer explicitly doesn't grant an Activation, but only two actions. Huh. So Overseer folks only get facing changes in a Move action? Am I reading that right?

Very interesting for a cawdor gang or a cultist gang with a cult icon.

Any goon with a unwieldy weapon become interesting even without investing in a suspensor.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

The overseer skill would allow both parties to change facing, LD when he chooses to face the recipient to use the skill, the recipient then gains two actions and each action used would allow a change of facing as the beginning of the action.

Also cult icons increase the number of models that can "group activate" not an overseer effect unless that's been changed recently?

 

[TopsyKretts]

"When a Standing fighter is activated, they may turn to face any direction their controlling player wishes, before making either of their actions. Changing facing in this way does not count as moving."

Arguably, this only applies "When a Standing fighter is activated". And since Overseer doesn't give activation, but 2 actions, they won't benefit from free facing (unless one or more of those actions are moving,standing up etc).

 

[Beebopalulla]

Damn you were faster again.

the cult icon was to add some flexibility.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

So overseer is; if the model is standing and active or mobile they can attempt the following action.

This implies two things, that they have "activated" getting your free change of facing and also attempting an "action" which you are allowed to change facing before doing. So there are it's reasons.

That fighter can immediately make two actions as though it were their turn to activate, even if not ready etc.
So it counts as an activation so you can change facing.
What may be what your more looking for as an offset is that unless your first action is a simple one you have to declare what your second action will be as well, although that doesn't help against fast shot as that makes shooting a simple action, which you can fully resolve before deciding next action.
Ps I really dislike the overseer skill and am not enjoying having to defend its potency...
In theory this cheese combo with an extra action tactic could group activate, use overseer (1 change) fast shooter shoots once (2), again (3), then use own actions to shoot again (4) again (5) tactic for final shot (6).
For 6 possible points at which models could change facing.

 

[TopsyKretts]

I don't understand that logic.

Fighter A users Overseer. This is ofc activation, action, get free facing and so forth. However, Overseer targets fighter B. Fighter B gets 2 actions. Not an activation.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

Order (double); make a leadership test for this model. If test is passed, pick a friendly fighter within 6". That fighter can immediately take two actions as though it were their turn to activate, even if they are not ready. If ready these actions do not remove their ready marker.
Pg 260 core rulebook 23.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Perhaps our misunderstanding is in the term "as though it were their turn to activate". To you, it implies this is an actual activation. I can sympathize with that, but thought there was some previous discussion that made a compelling argument for the opposite.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

That is exactly what that sentence means, please this is really simple English and I'm struggling to see why you can't understand? Id it because they haven't specifically said activation and you are clawing for any excuse to argue a failed point?

 

[Beebopalulla]

1- not everyone as english as first language.

That is exactly what that sentence means, please this is really simple English

2- It's necromunda, everything has to be scrutinized like lawyer or theological debat. "

because they haven't specifically said activation"

3- you can't argue if it's a failed point from your perspective only, that's why there is a forum and the game has an arbitrator. this is not an excuse and frustration aside why being so harsh?

I wish you a good day nonetheless;

and you are clawing for any excuse to argue a failed point?