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Ferocity skill table

Discussion in 'Rules, Mechanics & Skills' started by spafe, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. spafe

    spafe Executive Officer in charge of Hats
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Tribe Council Yak Comp 2nd Place

    Okay, I've been reading on a number of threads, and it seems to be a fairly commonly held opinion that ferocity skill table is lack lustre, not really ideal, generally shoddy and quite a poor choice.


    I've always rated it, massivly. Now granted I havent run certain gangs very much (my main gangs I love to run are goliath, cawdor, orlock and pitslaves, maybe scavies too). I'll discount the outlanders for the moment. The other 3 all have access to my favourite table, and looking objectivly, I think the only table I put in the same utility is agility. Now I'll say right now, I don't count techno, I never consider it as I never run van saar and so it's always a 'special' occasion pick.

    My logic (say with my cawdor and goliath) is that I will happily pick ferocity until a ganger (juve!) has learnt a trade, is he a 'stab you in the face' type of guy, or a 'fill you fulla lead' chap. Until you know that, Ferocity is the best, it keeps your guys in the fight, keeps them upright, makes them recover better, lets them operate more independantly, it rocks! With goliaths it is my standard pick, with cawdor, a 50/50 split with agility. With orlock (its been longer since I played them) I ran that everyone (ganger and juve) would get ferocity as their first normal skill pick.

    These choices mean that my gangs all have above average staying power. They are hard bastards.

    Now with goliaths, if I rolled a any skill, it will be techno if they havent picked a trade yet, or agility or shooting if they have, with cawdor it is the same, but with agility being switched for stealth. Orlocks its agility, stealth or techno as their 'stab', 'shoot' or 'undecided' respectivly.

    I'll be honest, I dont rate muscle, or combat, both seem too specialised into something that is easy enough to win by setting your self up for the right target, equipment and charge (along with WS of course), that the skills they offer seem less important to say... sprint, leap or beserk charge.

    I've not math hammered, this is all gut feeling, but why fellow tribe members, is the opinion of ferocity so low?

    I'm also curious how others rate tables/if others have a rough advance plan in their head for what they stick to?
    p0dde and Ben_S like this.
  2. Fold

    Fold Gang Hero

    I pick ferocity a lot, to me it's one of the most balanced tables with no real duff picks.

    I also take muscle a lot though so what do I know :)
    p0dde and spafe like this.
  3. p0dde

    p0dde Gang Champion
    Yak Philanthropist

    Great topic for discussion! We have already briefly discussed Combat vs. Ferocity in the Pit Slaves thread, and you had me reconsidering for a while. Mostly because the Ferocity skills have such great flavor.

    My evaluation is that Ferocity is the middle-of-the-road skill group. About half of the skills are good, but none of them are great, compared to what you can get in Techno, Shooting, Stealth and Agility (Sprint, Leap, Specialist. Medic, Dive, Infiltration, Gun Fighter, Fast Shot)

    You talk about fighters learning a trade, and that is a good way of putting it. I think that the 'great' skills I mention above, all have the quality of giving the fighter a direction or a set of tools, that you can utilize. You can use it in you strategy, when planing you scenario selection, and when distribution your equipment among the fighters in the gang.

    And with only half of the skills being good in Ferocity, I never really feel it is worth it. I my mind the bad skills are Berserker Charge, Impetuous and Iron Will. Granted Iron Will is amazing on your leader, otherwise it is comparable to an Ld. increase, usually not what you are looking for.

    Muscle is obviously the worst, as you also mention, but I will, as I have done previously =), make a case for taking Combat over Ferocity. What I really like about Combat is that all the skills have synergy with each other, and 5 of 6 skills all combine and increasingly make you better at winning H2H. In terms of learning a trade for the fighter, if you get any two of the Combat skills (excluding Step Aside), even if you are WS 2, you are good at H2H.

    I agree on you point about ferocity helping to " keep your guys in the fight". And I think that it is hard to put a value on the long time effect of choosing Ferocity.
    spafe likes this.
  4. spafe

    spafe Executive Officer in charge of Hats
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Tribe Council Yak Comp 2nd Place

    I would argue that zerk charge is a combat light skill... very handy to have, and useful for if your shotgunner finds himself in a pinch and needs to make a counter charge, or if your juve decides to take up the time honoured tradition of 'stab inna face!', then it is still very useful. It combos nicely with the sprint/leap type skills for that direction too.

    Impeteous I agree is poop. We'll move on from that.

    Iron will though... that one to me is ace, it allows for a ganger to take a juve with him, and not care when said juve catches a bullet, it also means if your leader is down, you have a good shot at sticking about. If its on your leader, even better but thats a class of its own. You then get useful bonus that it wont trigger LD challenges, unlike a LD boost, but keeps you hanging about longer if you start taking checks.

    Granted it isnt as ace as the others, but I'd argue its a better pick that combat master on your ws3 bs4 autogunner, or on your ws3 bs2 footballer (Dive skill)(I might be confusing that with ambush? the useless one that lets you hide and overwatch). Basically I think that 5 out of 6 skills are very useful for anyone, and some are pretty darn good for everyone, while other tables have naff ones and have ones that only help once a trade has been found for your ganger (or juve!).
    p0dde, Ptrix and Ben_S like this.
  5. Commissariat

    Commissariat Ganger

    Being someone who primarily plays Escher, I have not touched Ferocity that much at all. Agility is my primary pick for any gang member except maybe heavies because any ganger/juve/leader can benefit from what Agility has to offer (namely Sprint/Leap/Catfall/Quick-Witted). Being able to maneuver weaponry in position or use it to rush up the field to attack in melee makes it a universally great skill table.

    Stealth is the other one. You can dive/infiltrate models up the field for melee or dive/infiltrate/ambush models with guns.

    If I am trying to build a strong* gang, I make sure I pick a gang who has Agility or Stealth as a Juve option for this reason. I have rated the risk of getting a meh skill form Agility/Stealth to be worth it in comparison to tapping Ferocity. If anything, the naff skill becomes a chance to select the skill you want next time to offset its potential limited use. (Jumpback, how I despise you)

    When I play Goliaths, I have opted for Muscle as the introduction skills for members since the Iron Jaw ability is nice and don't really give much thought to Ferocity on Juves since Goliaths will end up being a little more focused on melee and thus can make use of Body Slam and so forth as well. This is all with the written skill charts in mind and not the intended skill table of Goliath-Juves having Ferocity/Muscle on their Juves.

    Personally, I would love to hear more about Ferocity as I have simply neglected it for the massive majority of my experience. I'll have to give it a shot in this new season on Discord methinks.

    * Says the guy who is building a Dual-Lascannon gang.
    spafe likes this.
  6. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
    Yak Supporter

    I think Ferocity is pretty good.

    Iron Will is functionally about the same as +2Ld, but as @spafe says it does so without triggering leadership contests (which I admit I hadn't thought about).

    With my new Cawdor gang I'm taking Agility with my gangers (3 of them on gang creation) and Ferocity on my juves (also 3 of them on gang creation).

    So far that has given me a great spread of fighters who can shift around the board and be durable to damage, before having to commit to the specialist Combat table.

    So yeah, I think Ferocity is fine :)
    spafe likes this.
  7. Outlaw Elvis

    Outlaw Elvis Ganger

    Only just got back to playing, and not really a number cruncher on the skills, but I' think ferocity has some very worthwhile skills. I tend to choose it more than combat, but then I also tend to roll on muscle (depending which gang I'm using)

    I see a lot of chat on the groups about skills tables, I feel they all have their place it building character and degrees of usefulness, each table has its stronger and weaker skills, but that's surely part of what we love about the game, how we utalise the skills and advances we roll, not making every table all powerful.
    spafe likes this.
  8. SirFrog

    SirFrog Gang Champion

    Having played Orlock a lot, I'm inclined to agree with the above sentiments. If a ganger hasn't shown any particular talent, I tend to pick Ferocity. The only really naf skill in it is Impetuous. Iron Will is immensely useful when half your enemies cause fear, and the hilarity of Berserk Charge + 3 base Attacks + Berserker Chip + Power Axe is a sight to behold.

    As a general purpose skill tree, Agility, Stealth and Techno are all better, but Ferocity isn't bad. It's just not as spectacularly useful. It is nice to have those self-unpinning gangers lurking where you least expect, and both True Grit and Killer Rep are pretty useful.
    spafe likes this.
  9. thisisalie

    thisisalie Ganger

    I agree with the lackluster opinion.

    For a generalist I rate the tables as follows: Techno, Agility, Shooting, Muscle, Combat, Stealth, Ferocity.

    I shouldn't need to explain Techno and agility.

    I expect it's odd why I rate shooting, however I value hip shooting, gunfighter and re-rolls quite highly. Crack shot is also pretty nasty versus people who go ferocity. Even if they are BS 2, hand flamers will make people tepid about getting close to anyone with hip shooting. If they get sprint or leap then that BS 2 guy is able to threaten a large area.

    Muscle is there because +1 strength gives me grenadiers, body slam is probably the best talent in the game for simply killing people (Give them berserker chips) and iron jaw with a toughness bump makes you immune to autopistols.

    Counter attack and deflect are almost worth +1 weapon skill apiece, feint combos well with the re-rolls and scales well with additional attack dice. Combat master starts useless but gets better if you can land agility talents and increase WS. Deflect scales really well. Combat is really good at racking up +WS, but doesn't add new things.

    Infiltration is worse then quick witted and doesn't stack. Sneak up is good if you have sprint/leap. Dive can be one of the best talents in the game if you play with lots of scenery (makes leap/sprint better). Evade makes you pretty tanky. Escape artist is far inferior to medic (I'd rather have 1 medic than 3 escape artists) and worse than tough as nails (unless you also have medics).

    True grit is getting a buff to make it better vs multi-wound weapons or getting shot lots. I prefer dodge over nerves of steel. berserk charge attack bonus scales poorly with A advances (it should probably be like +1 ws +1 A to be as good as Combat table advances). Fear has some hard counters (berserker chips are my fav). Iron will is worth about +2 LD.

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