N18 First Gang List Review - House Delaque

[RedC0met3]

I'm prepping to get into my first campaign, it's looking like we're going to be doing dominion with some sort of narrative, my interest at the local shop kicked off a massive influx of people wanting to get in on the game. Arbitrator says we're doing standard 1000 credits, no spam special weps, and no duplicate skills for starting lists. I'm sort of embracing House Delaque as my gang since my partner will be using the Eschers we got in the Hive War box and I've been doing my research to not get clobbered by the other 8-9 players in this campaign with the gang's alleged mid stats and tricky strats for a beginner.

So far my list is the following:

- Master of Shadows: Autopistol, Web Gauntlet, Mesh Armor (Overseer) 155
- Nacht-Ghul: Serpent's Fangs, Mesh Armor (Spring Up) 215
- Phantom: Plasma Gun, Autopistol, Mesh Armor, Infra-Sight (Overwatch) 240
- Ghost Specialist: Long Rifle, Mesh Armor 85
- Ghost: Lasgun 55
- Ghost: Lasgun 55
- Shadow: Autopistol, Web Pistol 110
- Shadow: Autopistol, Shock Stave 55
- Whipser Merchant 30

The plan is to run the leader up with the juves to get a web/coup de grace combo going while the champ and specialist cover the shooty stuff. Nacht goes blender on things and the Gangers do...ganger stuff. Though I am open to suggestions.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Unless you face similar infiltrate heavy gangs your Specialist with the Long rifle does not immediately need the Mesh armour. A long range ganger sniper receives less incoming fire than a champion in the same role and the up close and personal threats you have are more pressing bald dude to shoot.
I would give it to the web pistol Shadow instead to increase his chances of getting into Web range. While other weapons have increased in threat in the new Core rules Web weapons are still great and feared and opponents will act accordingly to shoot that Juve in the face.
You have to assign your Phantoms Infrasight to a specific weapon, it's only works on one and neither the Plasma Gun or Autopistol can have have one as they both have Rapid Fire, the plasma gun is a Weapon with Rapid fire it just can use a separate profile but it still is a Weapon with Rapid fire.
In your list only the Long Rifle and lasguns can have and benefit from infra sights, good upgrades for them.

 

[RedC0met3]

Unless you face similar infiltrate heavy gangs your Specialist with the Long rifle does not immediately need the Mesh armour. A long range ganger sniper receives less incoming fire than a champion in the same role and the up close and personal threats you have are more pressing bald dude to shoot.
I would give it to the web pistol Shadow instead to increase his chances of getting into Web range. While other weapons have increased in threat in the new Core rules Web weapons are still great and feared and opponents will act accordingly to shoot that Juve in the face.
You have to assign your Phantoms Infrasight to a specific weapon, it's only works on one and neither the Plasma Gun or Autopistol can have have one as they both have Rapid Fire, the plasma gun is a Weapon with Rapid fire it just can use a separate profile but it still is a Weapon with Rapid fire.
In your list only the Long Rifle and lasguns can have and benefit from infra sights, good upgrades for them.

Good call on the specialist, I'm still getting my head around the target prioritization aspect of the game coming from different wargames that don't need willpower to target the guy behind enemy lines.

Swapping the mesh armor is a good idea, though the infra-sight actually was a weird hang up in my list. I didn't really know were to put those spare 35 points. I had considered upgrading the leader's weapons but everything I've read just says good gear on an Overseer is a waste of resources, my personal consession was the web gauntlet just to make people think twice about charging him.

 

[HugeSamples]

As others have pointed out, the Infra-sight does not work on the Plasma Gun.

The Web Pistol Juve doesn't really need the Autopistol backup; it’s an unnecessary expense. Similarly, the Shock Staff Juve is an interesting choice, albeit not a very effective one.

Your Leader has Overseer. While good, it’s a bit boring and begs the question: "Is this better than giving my Leader a 'good gun'?" Your plan seems to be babysitting the Juves, but is launching a Web Pistol Juve down the battlefield really worth more than an independent Leader with a solid weapon and a different skill?

In my opinion, Overseer works best on heavy weapons because:

• They are expensive.
• They are immobile by default.
• They have very long range.

For Delaque, that usually means using the Trading Post.

If you remove the Infra-sight, Web Gauntlet, Autopistol x3 (on the Leader, Champ, and web Juve), and the Shock Staff, you’ll have 110 credits to spend on a "good gun" for your Leader. That is more than enough for a second Plasma Gun. You mentioned "no spamming"---does that mean no duplicates at all? If you can find 10 more credits, you could get a Grav-gun. If you can find 5 more, you can get a Webgun (a Webgun Leader with Mentor can be a very fun way to level up Juves).

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Good call on the specialist, I'm still getting my head around the target prioritization aspect of the game coming from different wargames that don't need willpower to target the guy behind enemy lines.

There is the actual Target Priority rules (the willpower check etc) and the players innate target priority. You have a ganger with BS 4+ and a potential S4 hit 24" away. Or that murder machine with serpent claws 6" away. Who is the more pressing target?

Swapping the mesh armor is a good idea, though the infra-sight actually was a weird hang up in my list. I didn't really know were to put those spare 35 points. I had considered upgrading the leader's weapons but everything I've read just says good gear on an Overseer is a waste of resources, my personal consession was the web gauntlet just to make people think twice about charging him.

The specialist can take the infra sight no problem and get a lot of milage out of it on his long rifle. Long range shots have annoying things like cover getting in the way which the sight helps. The ability to ignore Smoke clouds applies at all ranges. Your shadows can drop a few to provide cover and you can shoot through them from half a board away. Plus there is lots of darkness shenanigans that Delaque can pull and Infrasights help there too. On a 30 long rifle a 35 credit infrasight is a steal.

 

[katfezza]

Infrasight can be switched over to the longrifle guy, it will work great on them. I also enjoy a lasprojector on longrifles for the +1 to hit at short and long ranges.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

As others have pointed out, the Infra-sight does not work on the Plasma Gun.

The Web Pistol Juve doesn't really need the Autopistol backup; it’s an unnecessary expense. Similarly, the Shock Staff Juve is an interesting choice, albeit not a very effective one.

It may be technically a unnecessary expense for the back up Autopistol (although with the 5 credit discount it is a serious contender to the mighty stub gun back up) but on a Web pistol Shadow it performs another use.
If you don't get a 5 credit back up piece the fickle Gods of Dice will smite you. You will roll the Ammo symbol all the time and never get the 6+ ammo roll.
If you buy the 5 credit pistol you will blessed and never roll the Ammo symbol.
Such are the fickle ministrations of the Gods of Dice.

Your Leader has Overseer. While good, it’s a bit boring and begs the question: "Is this better than giving my Leader a 'good gun'?" Your plan seems to be babysitting the Juves, but is launching a Web Pistol Juve down the battlefield really worth more than an independent Leader with a solid weapon and a different skill?

In my opinion, Overseer works best on heavy weapons because:

• They are expensive.
• They are immobile by default.
• They have very long range.

For Delaque, that usually means using the Trading Post.

While true on Overseer and heavy weapon use (although suspensors are everywhere now so you can mitigate the second bullet point readily enough) Overseer does have other uses especially with Group Activation 2. Double Action grenade wielders give you a repeatable Grenade Bouquet tactic (which gets truly absurd when combined with the actual Tactics Card). That's just plain bonkers and even if you only give the cheap grenades oddly effective.
Ok you could be more sensible and do a Hail of Bullets but the bonkers option is right there, so.
...
There is also the catapulting a Naght Ghul (or two of them) across the board option when the juves don't work anymore.

If you remove the Infra-sight, Web Gauntlet, Autopistol x3 (on the Leader, Champ, and web Juve), and the Shock Staff, you’ll have 110 credits to spend on a "good gun" for your Leader. That is more than enough for a second Plasma Gun. You mentioned "no spamming"---does that mean no duplicates at all? If you can find 10 more credits, you could get a Grav-gun. If you can find 5 more, you can get a Webgun (a Webgun Leader with Mentor can be a very fun way to level up Juves).

To be honest the 30 credit mark up from a Grav pistol to the Gun for only 6" extra range (otherwise identical) is a bit pricey for me. A Grav pistol is plenty punchy enough for a back up pistol for a Overseer boss and they could keep some of the kit or have a little more armour spread around.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

my personal consession was the web gauntlet just to make people think twice about charging him.

On a Overseer boss a web gauntlet isn't a big anti charge deterrent. It is stuck at S3. To use Backstab to get S4 you need to be able to move and flank or get behind. Which a Overseer boss can't if yelling orders.
A Goliath Bully (juve) is only going to be wounded on a 5+. Any Brute on a 6+ once opponents get experience and T upgrades T4 rapidly invalidates S3 strikes and many gangs can go even higher.
Web gauntlets really need to make use of its Backstab ability to work. Which needs a mobile user.

 

[HugeSamples]

To be honest the 30 credit mark up from a Grav pistol to the Gun for only 6" extra range (otherwise identical) is a bit pricey for me. A Grav pistol is plenty punchy enough for a back up pistol for a Overseer boss and they could keep some of the kit or have a little more armour spread around.

The Grav Pistol is actually 70 credits (according to the Core Rulebook, which I've taken to superseded the older House of Shadows version at 90 credits). So it's 50 credits cheaper that the Gravgun .

 

[Vonvilkee]

The Grav Pistol is actually 70 credits (according to the Core Rulebook, which I've taken to superseded the older House of Shadows version at 90 credits). So it's 50 credits cheaper that the Gravgun .

That's the rare one from the trading post... delaque pay a premium to have direct access to it. Those are the breaks feel free to house rule but there are allot of discounts built in as well that then begs the question of do we change them too.

 

[RedC0met3]

Your Leader has Overseer. While good, it’s a bit boring and begs the question: "Is this better than giving my Leader a 'good gun'?" Your plan seems to be babysitting the Juves, but is launching a Web Pistol Juve down the battlefield really worth more than an independent Leader with a solid weapon and a different skill?

In lieu of Overseer or Mentor, what would you recommend as a skill for the leader? I'm open to the idea of maybe a grav pistol on the leader, since to answer you question I'm assuming no duplicate special weapons allowed the same as the skills. Or would the grav weapon be better off on the specialist?

 

[HugeSamples]

That's the rare one from the trading post... delaque pay a premium to have direct access to it. Those are the breaks feel free to house rule but there are allot of discounts built in as well that then begs the question of do we change them too.

That’s a fair observation.

However, I’m not sure I’ve seen another example of an item’s cost increasing for access to it. I'll admit I don't own every book, but I’d be eager to see another instance of this.

I’m more inclined to believe this is just the typical GW lack of awareness when writing rules.

 

[HugeSamples]

In lieu of Overseer or Mentor, what would you recommend as a skill for the leader? I'm open to the idea of maybe a grav pistol on the leader, since to answer you question I'm assuming no duplicate special weapons allowed the same as the skills. Or would the grav weapon be better off on the specialist?

• Dodge
• Sprint
• Spring Up
• Overwatch
• Infiltrate
• Evade
• Iron Will

Is the short list of reasonable skills the leader has access to (not including Overseer). Mentor is more for fun, it's not actually good.

The grav weapons pair well with Overwatch.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Why do you need a plasma gun so early in the campaign? Also, your gang can generate a lot of income through the Fixer skill.

It might be interesting to save money on the plasma gun and invest in one more body instead. Very soon, you should generate enough income to buy that plasma gun.

 

[Vonvilkee]

That’s a fair observation.

However, I’m not sure I’ve seen another example of an item’s cost increasing for access to it. I'll admit I don't own every book, but I’d be eager to see another instance of this.

I’m more inclined to believe this is just the typical GW lack of awareness when writing rules.

Totes agree on the crazy GW sometimes. House of faith has a similar thing with incendiary grenades IIRC (as they have so much Blaze already), and slave ogryns pay more for somethings IIRC. It isn't common but Delaque were a later house of and blast is better with visibility rules they can do. So there are reasons to make it a bit more for dependable availability

 

[RedC0met3]

Okay so taking in everything with all the recommendations, and a little bit of de-cheesing my list, here's what we have updated:

- Leader: Grav Gun, Mesh Armor (Overwatch) 235

- Nacht-Ghul: Serpent's Fangs, Mesh Armor (Spring Up) 215

- Phantom: Master-Crafted Lasgun, Mesh Armor (Fixer) 120

- Ghost Specialist: Long Rifle 70

- Ghost: Shotgun 70

- Ghost: Lasgun 55

- Ghost: Autogun 55

- Shadow: Web Pistol, Mesh Armor 120

- Shadow: Autopistol 30

- Whisper Merchant 30

 

[HugeSamples]

Looks solid.

Just make sure it's what you want to play, regardless of our advice .

 

[Beebopalulla]

The only thing i will change is the whisper merchant. i m not convince by it and especially not at creation. i will replace it by another shadow. But HugeSamoles is right it's your gang not ours.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I would drop the master crafted off the phantoms lasguns. For a champion it's not a show stopper weapon. The lasgun is good for giving a phantom something to do while you are saving up for another better gun but master crafting it is a bit of a waste. It's not like you have access to the Van Saar extra Las skills and tactics cards to boost it. It's more of a Ghost staple rather than Phantom.
Save the 5 credits and that becomes 15-35 next game with his Fixer skill. (So a suit or two of mesh or a master crafted Long Rifle). After two games that's 25-65 credits which is most of a top range pistol or a decent shot at a plasma pistol and so on. If you roll the top Fixer score after your first game just get a Master crafted Long rifle and use that as your phantoms main weapon hanging back and sniping (better chance of surviving and using Fixer later as well).

 

[HugeSamples]

Master-crafted is pretty underwhelming, in my opinion. However, it can be clutch if you miss a high-probability, important shot.

Giving the Nacht-ghul an autopistol could also be a nice use of those 5 credits. In a perfect world, the Ghul never uses it, but sometimes you need to hunker down and take a shot when it’s not safe to charge out.