N18 First Gang List Review - House Delaque

[Lunarcruiser]

Master-crafted is pretty underwhelming, in my opinion. However, it can be clutch if you miss a high-probability, important shot.

For a lasgun on a champion it's especially underwhelming.
It's a pity it's a Status item for Master crafted. It would be a nice little upgrade for the average Ganger or Jive. Not game breaking but a little little boost for the little guys.

Giving the Nacht-ghul an autopistol could also be a nice use of those 5 credits. In a perfect world, the Ghul never uses it, but sometimes you need to hunker down and take a shot when it’s not safe to charge out.

For the Nacht Ghul I wouldn't bother with a Autopistol. With either the Sword or Fangs they can more than do the job in melee alone to start with and by the time opponents learn how to deal with them or have the guns and funds to do so you will have the credits to get a better back up pistol. Same for all the melee special champions. Slice/dice/smash for a few games and then Bolt or Plasma pistol it.
For the champions with a paired or Unwieldy weapon (without bulging biceps or suspensors on the unwieldy weapon) I wouldn't even get a pistol as you can't use it in melee with your primary weapons. I would just get a Basic/Special/heavy weapon if you can instead later.
The Naght Ghul can have Trade post Basic weapons which opens up the world of shotguns. Even a Sawn off shotgun would be more beneficial than an Autopistol in the hunker down situation you describe but for only a few more and the normal one is available.
(It can be a little over the top if you have your Naght Ghul pinned down and suddenly they whip out an Arc Rifle and let rip flaming electro rounds that punch holes in ogryns)

 

[RedC0met3]

Well, it's my first gang and I'm still figuring it al out. The only adjustment I'd really make is swapping out my shotgun ghost for the psy-geist. I know they'll be basically a supporting actor until they get XP to up their willpower but what's the point in playing the "psyker" gang without a psyker? I've got a sort of mix of everything in the toolbox that's essentially Delaque it feels like and they should all mostly work together I think. Fixer will help me get the credits flowing, paired with the whisper merchant making random rolls for income more favorable and snowball gains. I do super appreciate everyone's feedback helping me get my bearings on trying to build a competent starter list.

The final draft:

Synth Serpents

 

[HugeSamples]

Seems fine.

With the Psi-Gheist, you’ll want to have a strategy for earning them experience. Generally speaking, they’re only going to get XP for showing up, as experience is heavily weighted toward taking models Out of Action or causing Serious Injuries.

 

[RedC0met3]

With the Psi-Gheist, you’ll want to have a strategy for earning them experience. Generally speaking, they’re only going to get XP for showing up, as experience is heavily weighted toward taking models Out of Action or causing Serious Injuries.

Does spatial psychosis proc the check for falling if an enemy is prone within half an inch from a ledge? If not what alternate options does he have for XP gain? Outside of just punching people to death that somebody softened up for him?

 

[HugeSamples]

Does spatial psychosis proc the check for falling if an enemy is prone within half an inch from a ledge? If not what alternate options does he have for XP gain? Outside of just punching people to death that somebody softened up for him?

Spatial Psychosis does trigger a falling check if an enemy is pinned within half an inch of a ledge. Whether they gain experience from the fall damage depends on how your Arbiter interprets the rules on page 148 of the Core Rulebook---specifically the phrasing, "if their action directly causes X," where X is Seriously Injured or Out of Action.

I would rule that they do get the experience, but that’s just my interpretation.

Outside of that, the ways they can gain XP are:

• Taking part in the battle.
• Successfully rallying after becoming Broken.
• Assisting another fighter during Recovery.
• Scenario-specific rewards.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Does spatial psychosis proc the check for falling if an enemy is prone within half an inch from a ledge?

As per the Rules if a fighter directly causes another to go Out of Action, yes they get the XP. If the Psyker didn't cast the Trip and Fall power the enemy would not have fallen into the acit pit filled with Laser Scorpion Sharks (It's Necromunda after all) so it is directly causing the OOA. If a Goliath Stimmer picked up and Hurled a opponent off the edge and they fell to their death they would get the XP. Its the same thing but with creey fish mental powers instad of 'Roid Rage muscles.

If not what alternate options does he have for XP gain? Outside of just punching people to death that somebody softened up for him?

As Per @HugeSamples they earn XP by Turning up, Rallying, Assisting another Recovery, Scenario specific rewards and taking Fighters and vehicles out.
You only need a singe 3XP upgrade to get Willpower 7+ which is ok for powers (If you use the Concentrate (Basic) action that adds +1 to the roll)

"punching people to death that somebody softened up"

That is actually really Viable for a Psy-Gheist in a Delaque gang. For the Creepy Bald Assassins there is a loverly French Phrase. Coup de Grace. Perform a Coup de Grace on a Seriously Injured foe and you take them OOA regardless of wounds. Or Armour Saves etc.
You can have Web Guns and Pistols spinnereting out of every single fighter (The Naght-Ghul can Trade Post it). Both weapons are Templates so can catch multiple foes. With either S4 or 5 (thats good to great), and no Armour save (that's Awesome). They bypass the Injury dice and go straight to Webbed instead (So no Flesh wounds and cralling away that turn).
While webbed they count as Seriously Injured in almost all respects (no additional Flesh wounds if they don't recover in the End Phase which won't matter)
As they count as Seriously Injured they are vunerable to the Coup de Grace action.
One Web Gun Shot and a sucessful Web on a Leader or Champion (most of which are T3 or 4 so quite easy to Web) and a single Charge by a Psy-Gheist and they net 3XP. Ignoring all Armour. And they can do it again next turn. Even if you do it to only one Gang Fighter a game that plus your bonus for turning up grants you 3XP (or that Will power upgrade) every game and with Fast Learner it remains at that 3XP cost. In one Game I have earned 9 XP from that tactic and four poor Bone Pickers with one Web Gun Shot (poor beggers couldn't roll a Flesh Wound result in the End Phase to save thier life) . 8+ Willpower to 5+ in one Game.

It gets even easier with the right equipment. The pricey 110 Credit Psychomancers Harness. That bumps your Psy-Gheist up to Move 8", that doesn't Half climbing distance so can keep up with Dirt Bikes and pounce over many gantries hunting the victims down with ease. And the Claws give a 3" Versatile range Thats a near unfettered 12-14" Charge range for Coup de graces. Should you Charge a none Seriously Injured Foe (assuming you haven't upgraded you Phy-Gheists physical Stats yet) you get Three attacks At S4. That Ignore Saves. And if you roll a natural 6 that attack Auto Wounds and with 3 attacks there is a decent chance that will happen.
Charges like that seriously mess up any Gang Fighter even if they are not softened up by others. Add another Attack upgrade and thats 5 attacks on the charge. That can instant OOA many champions, leaders and Brutes with some moderate luck and spells near certian OOA to any Gang Fighter.

With that Harness you don't even need the wierdos mental powers. You can just use them to hoover up Gang fighters and rake up kills. Team them up with Webbers and they can soon outpace your other Gang Fighters and boost themselves into champion threat levels. Without Casting a single power. If you go Combat monster the Powers are just icing.
Normally I would not bother Promoting Prospects and just utilise the Fast Learner rules but a Harness Psy-Gheist I would make exceptions for. They can easily rack up enough advancements (5+) to qualify for Promotion in Down Time. Pump the one Allowed into Attacks (2A) and Strength (S4) another into WS (WS3+) and another into Toughness or the single Wounds you are allowed. (lets say Both T and W to make 5) You now have a M8" WS3+ S4 T4 W2 A2 fighter
Thats 46xp which looks a lot lets assume 4 games in the first phase -4 for turning up so 42 XP so 10/11 per game. Which is 4 bone pickers (juves) and a champion a game. This is possible over 4 games I have done it twice (Emperor bless Cawdor and thier hordes of expendable Meat Shields).
OK you could not go for the Attack and Wound and pick 2 Will instead (24 after turning up XP which is is only 3 juves/ganger kills per game without having to hunt champions)
Then Promote them to Naght-Ghul. That Movement Plus the Phased Shock Versatile claws and From the Shadows is brutal. Plus your Maximum Characteristics is limited to "the basic profile for a fighter of thier current catagory". Which is now Naght Ghul not Psy-Gheist. So you could boost Attacks (and Wounds) up to 3 and S5 coupled with the Paired claws. A 7A S6 Phased Shock Versatile Shock charge is a recipe for Opponent Paste.

You can really rack up the combat power and XP with a cunny Psy-Gheist and a little web cooperation and ruthlessness with opponents Gang Fighters.

And thats leaving your Master of Shadows and Chanpions free to take down real targets.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Well, it's my first gang and I'm still figuring it al out. The only adjustment I'd really make is swapping out my shotgun ghost for the psy-geist. I know they'll be basically a supporting actor until they get XP to up their willpower but what's the point in playing the "psyker" gang without a psyker?

Well I answered this the wrong way round (see my previous comment for turning the Psy-Gheist into a melee fiend and use of Coup de Grace for XP farming)
Web is the Psy-Gheists friend.
As stated the Fast Learner skill keeps XP spends at standard level (others pay +2 XP for each additional increase in the same stat) and Will power upgrades are the cheapest ( Turn up and take one guy out of action and thats one upgrade). YOu can really rack up XP by hunting down webbed juves etc easily.
(If going the Psyker route don't Promote the guy and keep using Fast Learner and Psychoteric wyrm access, you lose access to additional wyrms once promoted).
Learn the ins and outs of Psychoteric Choirs (p97), Powers and the Wyrms Node rules.
Most Powers have very close range which is hazardous for the Psy-Gheist. The Wyrm is mobile and a 12" boost to range, far safer for the fighter (less so for the Wyrm).
The Choirs can boost the little range a little up to +3" (depending on interpretation this may only apply from the actual caster and not the pets used) which is all right but its bonus to required Intelligence tests can make some powers much more effective (Int mostly being a garbage stat for most none Van Saar foes).
Every power is situational. The trick is using situation to your advantage. Spatial Psychosis does have good range and is Simple so you can cast it twice. however it just trips a foe up. They need to be near an edge to potenitally hurt them directly with a fall. No cliff edges = no damage and XP for the Psy-Gheist. With Esher and foes with Spring Up the power may not matter at all. if you play in battle fields with tonnes of drops then it can be great. Solid floors not so much.
Staying in Delusion Opprobrious Curse is also Simple but has low range (see Wyrm use) and can hand out Flesh wounds on a opposed T check. So doesn't have much effect of high toughness foes but can further cripple and even slay weakened foes. so target the already wounded.

All the Whispers can be very useful in the exact situation to maximise the impact. Eternal Slumber may be a (Double) action (so Overseer to get your caster into range then Cast) but if a Web gun Webbed 2+ opponents you can rack up a tonne of XP. Maximising that takes coordination and set up.

Personally I would pick powers that require as little factors outside your control as possible to work and use the opponents abilities against themselves. Spatial Psychosis works best in conjunction with ledges that opponents can learn to avoid (and cliff edges are commonly avoided by most even halfway experianced war or rolegame players).
You can use Choirs to help on making INT based powers harder to resist and most fighters have not great INT stats anyway and don't bother upgrading it over WS BS and more critical skills so such reliant powers are not as big a barrier as you would think. Getting a dumb as a plank Goliath Stimmer to Pulverise thier own face with Suicidal Embrace is comical and the bigger weapons they buy the harder they hit themselves.

 

[HugeSamples]

The pricey 110 Credit Psychomancers Harness. That bumps your Psy-Gheist up to Move 8", that doesn't Half climbing distance so can keep up with Dirt Bikes and pounce over many gantries hunting the victims down with ease. And the Claws give a 3" Versatile range Thats a near unfettered 12-14" Charge range for Coup de graces.

Versatile weapons don't increase the range of Coup de Grâce; you still need to be within 1" of the target to perform it. It is an action, not a melee attack. This means you do not get the free Coup de Grâce from charging if you are attacking from outside that 1" range."

 

[HugeSamples]

Thats 46xp which looks a lot lets assume 4 games in the first phase -4 for turning up so 42 XP so 10/11 per game. Which is 4 bone pickers (juves) and a champion a game.

This sounds a bit unrealistic. At ~11 XP per game, the opponent will likely bottle long before a single Prospect can chew through half their force like that. Even if they're just "cleaning up", the match will end via Bottle tests long before they can feed that much XP to one fighter.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Versatile weapons don't increase the range of Coup de Grâce; you still need to be within 1" of the target to perform it. It is an action, not a melee attack. This means you do not get the free Coup de Grâce from charging if you are attacking from outside that 1" range."

It's one of those badly worded GW rules interactions (not sure they have heard of editing) that can be interpreted many ways. It's a bad language and grammar issue from GW (personally I agree with your interpretation of the intent but its GW, grammar screw ups are kind of Thier thing).
"Charge (Double): The fighter moves -etc distance targets stuff etc (not relevant to this issue) If Standing and Engaged at the end of this move, they must immediately make a free Fight (Basic) action" (that's the important bit for this point).
Coup de Grace replaces the free Fight action with the Coup de Grace (simple) action. It does say within 1" in the coup de Grace rule.
However the Versatile Trait itself says "does not need to be in base contact with an enemy model in order to engage them in melee during their activation" (the lower case of "engage" and "melee" being the, probably unintended, interaction here).
For starters in English Grammar (the original language used here) the Principle clause of a sentence is most important and the following ones are secondary in order. So the Standing and Engaged takes priority in the Charge action. Which then keys to the secondary effect (the Coup action replacement. Then the 1" bit comes in. If the 1" bit came before the Coup Simple bit then that would take priority over the Action. (That's the way I think it should have been written. Put all the qualifying requirements first, then move onto the alternative option of the Coup. Stupid GW ignoring Grammar).

In the Versatile Trait the lower case "engage" and "melee" are general terms not specific. They should be capitalised Engage and Melee of they are specific terms. Both Fight(basic) and Coup de Grace(Simple) are under the general catchment of "melee" and the wording is general enough to allow melee options, plural.
I agree with you that it should not also apply to Versatile Coup de Graces at over the range of 1" but the grammar allows it. If the 1" requirement was placed before the Coup de Grace (Simple) part of the phrase (for the exact same number of letters it costs nothing in printing GW, grr) then it would lock out the loophole for Versatile.

There are lots of grammatical inconsistencies in Necromunda and GW in general.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

This sounds a bit unrealistic. At ~11 XP per game, the opponent will likely bottle long before a single Prospect can chew through half their force like that. Even if they're just "cleaning up", the match will end via Bottle tests long before they can feed that much XP to one fighter.

I've done it a few times with Psy-Gheists. If you target the weaker members like juves they are quite easy to rack up especially if you face Horde gangs like Cawdor and Outcasts.
I did also mention the cooperative use of various Web weapons to pull this off.
Until opponents wise up you can easily catch a couple foes in a single web shot which ignores armour and wounds so that's a couple foes which can include champions Webbed which is seriously injured and vulnerable to Coup de Grace (Simple) or even a normal fight Action so a nippy Psy-Gheist can quickly take them out. And then it's next turn and you do it all over again.
There is also the less xp option where you don't shell out for 12 xp A and Wound upgrades which is much easier and achievable.

 

[HugeSamples]

Coupe de Grace (Simple): if this fighter is not engaged with any other fighters, choose one Prone and Seriously Injured enemy fighter within 1" and within the vision arc of this fighter. The enemy fighter immediately goes Out of Action.

A fighter performing a Charge (Double) action may make a free Coupe de Grace (Simple) action instead of a free Fight (Basic) action if they move within 1" of a Prone and Seriously Injured fighter and are not engaged with any other enemy fighters.

Core Rulebook page 104

This action is clear you have to be within 1" and has nothing to do with Versatile or melee attacks.

Versatile is a bit long to type out, but I'll type out the first sentence of it:

Versatile:
The wielder of a Versatile weapon does not need to be in base contact with an enemy model in order to engage them in melee during their activation...

Core Rulebook page 317

Versatile merely changes the range at which you can Engage an enemy fighter.

 

[HugeSamples]

I've done it a few times with Psy-Gheists. If you target the weaker members like juves they are quite easy to rack up especially if you face Horde gangs like Cawdor and Outcasts.
I did also mention the cooperative use of various Web weapons to pull this off.
Until opponents wise up you can easily catch a couple foes in a single web shot which ignores armour and wounds so that's a couple foes which can include champions Webbed which is seriously injured and vulnerable to Coup de Grace (Simple) or even a normal fight Action so a nippy Psy-Gheist can quickly take them out. And then it's next turn and you do it all over again.
There is also the less xp option where you don't shell out for 12 xp A and Wound upgrades which is much easier and achievable.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, just too inconsistent to rely on.

edited to be more concise.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Not saying it's impossible, but that it's unlikely to be consistent to the point that I wouldn't bank on that strategy.

I m confused by that phrasing. You me you will bet on it or not bet on it?

 

[HugeSamples]

not bet on it.

 

[Vonvilkee]

It's one of those badly worded GW rules interactions (not sure they have heard of editing) that can be interpreted many ways. It's a bad language and grammar issue from GW (personally I agree with your interpretation of the intent but its GW, grammar screw ups are kind of Thier thing).
"Charge (Double): The fighter moves -etc distance targets stuff etc (not relevant to this issue) If Standing and Engaged at the end of this move, they must immediately make a free Fight (Basic) action" (that's the important bit for this point).
Coup de Grace replaces the free Fight action with the Coup de Grace (simple) action. It does say within 1" in the coup de Grace rule.
However the Versatile Trait itself says "does not need to be in base contact with an enemy model in order to engage them in melee during their activation" (the lower case of "engage" and "melee" being the, probably unintended, interaction here).
For starters in English Grammar (the original language used here) the Principle clause of a sentence is most important and the following ones are secondary in order. So the Standing and Engaged takes priority in the Charge action. Which then keys to the secondary effect (the Coup action replacement. Then the 1" bit comes in. If the 1" bit came before the Coup Simple bit then that would take priority over the Action. (That's the way I think it should have been written. Put all the qualifying requirements first, then move onto the alternative option of the Coup. Stupid GW ignoring Grammar).

In the Versatile Trait the lower case "engage" and "melee" are general terms not specific. They should be capitalised Engage and Melee of they are specific terms. Both Fight(basic) and Coup de Grace(Simple) are under the general catchment of "melee" and the wording is general enough to allow melee options, plural.
I agree with you that it should not also apply to Versatile Coup de Graces at over the range of 1" but the grammar allows it. If the 1" requirement was placed before the Coup de Grace (Simple) part of the phrase (for the exact same number of letters it costs nothing in printing GW, grr) then it would lock out the loophole for Versatile.

There are lots of grammatical inconsistencies in Necromunda and GW in general.

You can't engage a prone fighter and CdA defines its own range and says you can't be engaged to do it. Hence you need to be within the one inch.

Now the real problem is they made at least a single 1" versatile weapon which opens up all kinds of intent questions. If all versatile were say 1.5" plus, you could actually apply what is written more easily. The whole can't be within 1" unless in btb (of a standing fighter) breaks with 1" versatile, otherwise this bit being enforced makes versatile work and leaves CdG to work separately and not tied to weapon range even vaguely, which it isn't currently. Just because you can attack, doesn't mean you can finish them off with out a roll.

 

[Beebopalulla]

We are going off topics.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

You can't engage a prone fighter and CdA defines its own range and says you can't be engaged to do it. Hence you need to be within the one inch

I am really not saying your intent is wrong here. It is a fault of the GW wording which grammatically allows the loophole.
They should have put all the requirements to qualify for the CdG first (including the 1") then put the Action but they didn't. They put one requirement, the Action and then another requirement. The grammar goes in priority from front to back so the 1" requirement is secondary to the Action. As it is written.
I do think it has been written incorrectly and GW should really learn to edit better.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

@RedC0met3
Anyway backing aside from the Grammar Nazis point and back to the creepy bald dudes/dudettes (some of the Delaque models are actually female).
I could make your latest list work, I would take the shiver sword over the serpent fangs on the Naght Ghul personally only because it looks so so much cooler .
The trick with Delaque is a solid grasp of thier tricks and keeping mobile.
For the stupidly rich a favourite Delaque trick of mine is the Digi laser. You can take multiple ones and use them at the same time. And when I say multiple it can be TEN. For a cost of 250 credits which is on par with a good Suspensor heavy weapon you get to slap down an additional 10 attack dice on a victim on top of your regular attacks. Yes its S1 garbage (although ten of them may actually wound somebody now and then, 6s happen), but it is an absolutely bonkers thing to do in a melee with a Naght Ghul popping up behind enemy lines charging and slapping down up to 16 attack dice on a charge.
While a expense stunt it completely derails an opponents focus.

Delaque need sneaky tricks and they have a tonne in the book. Learn how a few work and how to use them well. Then pick a a few more.