N18 First time 1k Cred Enforcers

[JayTee]

I imagine your Arbitrator has looked at the Enforcers and gone "Bolters and free armour!? Overpowered!".

Enforcers are far from overpowered, they're definitely weaker than all 6 of the House Gangs. The key sticking points for them is their Leader & Champions are overcosted with poor stats, they can't 'fill out' a roster with cheap Gangers, the mandatory stubgun is a liability sometimes, and while their House guns are largely great, they lack decent BS to leverage this.

They are competitive, fun, and frankly look the business on the tabletop but I'm shocked anyone would consider them ban-worthy.

 

[Jam Warrior]

Don't tell a New Guy to break the rules. The Enforcer's service revolver is iconic. That's the problem with you kids these days. No respect for tradition. A House Rule that removes the 3-gun limit? Be careful what you wish for.

The only issue with multiple load out cards is you got to randomize which one is used in a scenario. They can both even have the same weapons. But the omnipotent Rules Designers made it difficult to circumvent their decades old 3-weapon rule.

I'll say it again, Trying to field an Enforcer who is decisive in Close Combat is fraught. Shooting is cool. If you miss (when you miss), you can walk away. H2H, not so much. You lose, you die. No halfway measures. This is the last time you get off with just a warning.

When you have the multiple load out option there’s no obligation to include all your weapons on a card IIRC. You can just leave the stub gun at home by not having it on any of your load outs.

 

[Dkay1981]

Sounds like your arbitrator is deflecting the real issue. Enforcers are far from over powered but they are a pain to manage in a campaign setting if is is a dominion campaign. Tho these issues are very easily house ruled to be more inline with other gangs.

I have a feeling he is a fairly inexperienced arbitrator. I had one of those before and all they wanted was the main 6 gangs. That was mainly because he had no idea what the others could do.

As some who is fairly new at being an arbitrator I can tell you that it takes a boatload of work to set everything up and learn everything.

My advice is talk to him and try to get to the bottom of the issue. If he really wants to be an ass about it. Maybe go along with it this time so you get an idea of how things are played whilst looking for a new group…. If you can.

 

[Scabs]

When you have the multiple load out option there’s no obligation to include all your weapons on a card IIRC. You can just leave the stub gun at home by not having it on any of your load outs.

Nope. The rules don't say that. In fact, this would be a "go around" that makes the rules for 3 weapon restriction and multiple fighter cards superfluous.

The problem with multiple fighter cards, and the reason this is bad advice for a new player is this is buying more weapons than he can bring to the battle. So, increasing the total cost of the fighter and the Gang Rating. And, randomizing fighter cards for a battle means you don't know which weapons will be brought to the battle. Which is why I never bother with them. Plus, this implies there is something wrong with Enforcers (and the game itself). There ain't.

 

[Scabs]

Thanks for all the advice everyone though seems i'll not get to use the gang as my Arbitrator doesn't want anybody using Enforcers due to being overpowered

I've been told i can use the models i've bought as 'counts as' another gang. Anybody got any advice on other gangs that could be built somewhat similarly to the Enforcers?

You sure the word wasn't "underpowered?" I'd like to know how to build an overpowered starting Enforcer gang. Especially in the era of House of (X) rulebooks. The closest and easiest "counts as" would be Orlocks. You could build a more powerful gang that looks the same as Enforcers.

 

[Jam Warrior]

Nope. The rules don't say that. In fact, this would be a "go around" that makes the rules for 3 weapon restriction and multiple fighter cards superfluous.

The problem with multiple fighter cards, and the reason this is bad advice for a new player is this is buying more weapons than he can bring to the battle. So, increasing the total cost of the fighter and the Gang Rating. And, randomizing fighter cards for a battle means you don't know which weapons will be brought to the battle. Which is why I never bother with them. Plus, this implies there is something wrong with Enforcers (and the game itself). There ain't.

‘Nope’ right back at you. Tools of the Trade lets you put their weapons on as many or as few of their cards as you like. As few includes none.

As the name implies, the intent of the rule is that your characters can have specialised cards for different scenarios and tables, say open 3D vs tunnels, or something particularly useful when making a sneak attack against sentries. In order to have that flexibility you risk them having the wrong option picked for a random pick mission.

It doesn't make the three weapon carry limit superfluous because you need to have those cards locked in before the game starts.

The rule also lets you bench old weapons that have been rendered obsolete by putting them on no cards. Handy when your Juve has become a Champion or say when all your guys come with a free basic pistol.

The intent is definitely not to force you to have a chance of having taken your objectively worse weapon out for a walk that day. That's just silly.

 

[Vonvilkee]

I always favored just letting the enforcers carry the stub gun for "free" including free of weapon limit. This can lead them to have four weapons. We just figured it came with a nice fancy carry spot (considering the armor/uniform and stub gun are included) keeping the space normally used for weapons free.

 

[Scabs]

Leaving weapons off of the fighter's card eliminates the reason for a 3-weapon restriction. I'll play your game. Where does any weapon that ganger's "prize so much they wont let it go," go? Can't go to the Stash, the rules say so. Does it still count towards the ganger's cost. The rules say it does.

If you can just leave the weapons off the card, what does "locking in" a ganger's card have to do with this discussion? Assign the weapons to no card, and just bring one card? Why bother?

Randomized cards is the opposite of specialized cards for different scenarios.

Creating an interpretation that redefines "few" as "none" to get around an inconvenient rule is pointless (I can fly this Cessna to Catalina, we have a few gallons left; and by that I mean none). Been there, done that, don't recommend that. Don't like the rule, just say it. For that matter, don't like that Enforcers come with a stub gun, just ignore it. There ain't no GW police. But, don't justify it. Not to a new player seeking advice.

And, I will still consider you as one of my few friends.

 

[Jam Warrior]

Leaving weapons off of the fighter's card eliminates the reason for a 3-weapon restriction. I'll play your game. Where does any weapon that ganger's "prize so much they wont let it go," go? Can't go to the Stash, the rules say so. Does it still count towards the ganger's cost. The rules say it does.

If you can just leave the weapons off the card, what does "locking in" a ganger's card have to do with this discussion? Assign the weapons to no card, and just bring one card? Why bother?

Randomized cards is the opposite of specialized cards for different scenarios.

Creating an interpretation that redefines "few" as "none" to get around an inconvenient rule is pointless (I can fly this Cessna to Catalina, we have a few gallons left; and by that I mean none). Been there, done that, don't recommend that. Don't like the rule, just say it. For that matter, don't like that Enforcers come with a stub gun, just ignore it. There ain't no GW police. But, don't justify it. Not to a new player seeking advice.

And, I will still consider you as one of my few friends.

Putting the 'as few as you like' debate aside as we're clearly going to have to agree to differ there, the rest of your argument confuses me.

Leaving things on no card doesn't stop the three weapon limit applying? If my guy has a pistol, cc weapon, flamer (for tunnel fights) and rifle (for open fights) he can't take all four but has to split them over two cards. If you want to have the potential to use a weapon in your next game it has to be on one of the model's cards. You can't change your cards around mid pre-game sequence once you know what scenario you are playing.

 

[Jam Warrior]

What it comes down to is Necromunda is meant to be a fluffy narrative game. My model was caught by surprise so had his tunnel fighting gear with him when caught fighting in the open, works as a narrative. My model was caught by surprise so was carrying his obsolete pistol around instead of his better gear for no apparent reason, does not work as a narrative.

Similarly, the Juve who struggles through the ranks to become a mighty Champion is still saddled with a chance to turn up to the fight with his stubgun and knife? Nonsense.

 

[Scabs]

I love you man, but upon further review, Enforcers have a specific rule for adding more than 3 weapons. "Few" is not a word used in that rule. The stub gun has to be on at least one card. And, they are randomly chosen for the battle. You could put a desired "fourth" weapon on both cards. So that it is available, no matter what.

 

[Divine Visitor]

It is a Dominion Gang War Campaign that my Arbitrator has organised but i couldn't say how much experience he has regarding the organisation of a Campaign.

When i tried to raise the issue regarding the Enforcers expulsion from the Campaign and the reasons behind it he indicated that this was due to them being overpowered before raising the following issues he had with them:

- Free Juve to replace deceased fighters who comes with armour and equipment
- Not needing to pay the same kind of upkeep costs as other gangs due to being fed etc by the precinct
- A whole gang being capable of being armed with Grenade Launchers
- Suggested they ignore targeting restrictions other gangs need to follow (example he showed was a grenade launcher on 'ground level' shooting onto a fighter out of sight on top of a building; this one he didn't seem sure about himself

Without a better grasp on the rules myself i couldn't really refute these points on the spot.

My intention is to read through the Necromunda Rulebook and Book of Judgement myself to see if these objections are well founded or not. If not then i'll send him a message over the weekend trying to address each of the points he raised to reassure him regarding his concerns before the Campaign starts next week.

 

[Divine Visitor]

As far as gangs currently playing in the Dominion Campaign i know there is at least 1 of the following:
- Delaque
- Escher
- Goliath
- Van Saar
- Corpse Grinder Cults
- Ash Waste Nomads

I think there's somewhere between 8-12 players looking to participate.

 

[Dkay1981]

To be honest he sounds like a newer or a lazy arbitrator. Our whole job is to engage the players and make it fun for them. People have spent their hard earned money and spent time on these models and to exclude that gang because they have a hang up is in poor taste. By the fact you guys have a corpse grinder guild in the campaign and he says enforcers are overpowered says allot.

The enforcer campaign mechanics are actually a huge hinderance to the gang, not a bonus. Yes the get a free trooper……. They pretty much suck. They are just fodder unless you can somehow level them up. The fact enforcers cannot hold territories means they don’t get access to ANY of the territory benefits. No extra currency, not boons to the gang and no free jives, scum or other chrs like rogue docs.

I can tell you that having a gang that can have allot of freebase launchers is no where near as strong as most of what the corpse grinders can do, the abuse of genesmithing, plasma spam, the tricks that cawdor can do with a simple 15 credit updates that turns weapons into a 1 shot flamer and phasing nachtgouls.


Enforcers are a great gang and have some real strength but they are not even close to overpowered.

 

[JayTee]

Inline replies to the specific points in red...

- Free Juve to replace deceased fighters who comes with armour and equipment
Fair, though has he noticed the stats on the free fighter? They are total garbage and limited to only Pistol, Basic and (lol) close combat weapons. Lost a 100cred Sergeant with a Heavy Concussion Ram? Here have a free garbage Juve who can't equip the ram!
- Not needing to pay the same kind of upkeep costs as other gangs due to being fed etc by the precinct
There is no upkeep cost anywhere in Necromunda. So this is clearly something he's introduced, so if he's worried this makes them overpowered then well obviously he's the one that can fix this. Moaning that an arbitrary benefit makes a gang overpowered when you're the one who added the benefit sense a little duplicitous.
- A whole gang being capable of being armed with Grenade Launchers
A grenade launcher without Krak grenades? Fill your boots, enforcer launchers are pretty awful. Also each fighter to do this costs a minimum of 130 creds and a hilarious 165 creds if you want them with the actually-good Krak grenades.
- Suggested they ignore targeting restrictions other gangs need to follow (example he showed was a grenade launcher on 'ground level' shooting onto a fighter out of sight on top of a building; this one he didn't seem sure about himself
This is not unique to Enforcers. That's like complaining they come with Shooting skills. There are also plenty of house rules relating to "fixing" that you can avoid target priority using blast weapons.

Wrt shooting from ground level to the top of the building, that's likely illegal as you need to be able to see the point where you're placing the blast marker. You can't 'lob' it onto a floor your can't see.

 

[Jam Warrior]

On the actual topic:

- All the other gangs get a free Juve after 30% of their games, and nobody has to die.
- I have no idea what upkeep he's thinking of. Is he conflating an Uprising campaign with a Dominion one? There's no upkeep in Dominion,
- You'll be lucky to afford a full gang with grenade launchers unless it's a very small one! They pay the cred price like anyone else.
- Blast weapons can't be centered on a point you can't see. And everyone else has plenty of access to them.

In short the man is a fool if he's letting Corpse Grinders play but banning Enforcers for fear of them being overpowered. Tell him do do a quick google on each gang's power level and the internet consensus of CGC overpowered, Enforcers underpowered will quickly come through.

 

[Heart of Storm]

To counter those arguments, point out that Enforcers have a hard cap on the number of champions they can field in the gang, which is far more severe than house gangs, and those champions are terrible with 4+ BS and WS.

 

[Divine Visitor]

So i have been crafting a letter to submit to my Arbitrator in a last ditch effort to allow my use of the Enforcer Gang. If i could kindly ask those who have the time to read over my (lengthy) proposal and if there are any further advice or issues i might bring up to lend weight to my case then i would very much like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again to everyone for sticking with me through this thread guys. I very much to appreciate all the help


LETTER
Greetings!

Been having a good look through the Necromunda books and discussing issues with other players online regarding the balance between the various Gangs available.

It appears to be that the consensus regarding the overpowered or underpowered Gangs indicates that there are known issues regarding some of the Gangs built in a manner to break the game but that there are no real concerns regarding the use of Enforcer Gangs in this regard.

Given this i was looking to address the issues raised with the Enforcer Gang in an effort to alleviate any concerns regarding their viability and interaction with other Gangs in the Campaign.

If i recall correctly when the matter was brought to the table (pun intended!) during the Games Night the issues raised regarding the Enforcers being overpowered were:

1. Free Juve on death of another Character and that this Juve comes with starting equipment (being Flak armour and a Stub Pistol
2. Not needing to pay the same kind of upkeep costs as other gangs due to being fed etc by their precinct
3. The whole gang being capable of being equipped with Grenade Launchers
4. That they have some form of skill that allows them to circumvent shooting targeting restrictions that other gangs need to adhere to

I will seek to address each of these points.

1. All other Gangs start with a Settlement Territory which they can not lose and can not be staked on the outcome of a battle (page 78 Necromunda Rulebook), this is much like the Palanite Precinct.​

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This Settlement provides gangs with 1D6x10 Credits at the Collect Income stage of the Post Battle Sequence and allows them to roll 2D6. If they roll 2x6 they get a free Ganger, if they roll1x6 they get a free Juve. This equates to a 2.77% chance of a free Ganger and 27.73% chance of a free Juve.​

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This Ganger/Juve comes as standard with the basic equipment afforded to each Gang’s respective Ganger/Juve equivalent (this will obviously vary from gang to gang; some will come with skills, extra stats, equipment etc).​

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This will equate to approximately one free Ganger/Juve every three games and has a possibility of occurring after every game.​

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The Enforcers instead get their free Juve mechanic when one of their Fighters is killed during the Post Battle Sequence and will not trigger without this.​

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This equates to a replacement Juve for a deceased Fighter 1 out of 6 times a roll on the Injury Table is required during the Post Battle Sequence (unless the Fighter is instead taken to a Doc via Medical Escort at a cost of 2D6x10 credits in which case said Fighter would only Die on a further roll of a 1 on 1xD6), further reducing the likelihood of a replacement Juve being attained.​

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Only one replacement Juve can be obtained per game so if the Enforcer Gang is unfortunate enough to have two fighters killed they will only get a one Juve replacement.​

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The replacement Juve comes standard with Flak Armour, Undersuit and a Stub pistol. They can purchase additional equipment from the Pistols, Basic and Combat Weapons categories (not Special Weapons). They can not be upgraded to Subjugators and thus can not access Shields.​

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These Juve’s also have just about the lowest stat line of any Juve in Necromunda and do not possess the Fast Learner skill House Juve’s come with.​

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2. In old Necromunda each Gang took a penalty on their income to ‘upkeep’ the Gang. This was to represent feeding their Fighters, repairing or maintaining equipment etc. These costs increased depending on the number of Fighters present in said Gang. These rules however appear to be relics of the past and not present in the new version of the game. Enforcer Gangs follow the same Income rules as all other Gangs.​

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3. While the Leader, Champions and Gangers of an Enforcer Gang that are upgraded to Subjugators can all be freely equipped with Grenade Launchers these do not come with the standard Frag and Krak Grenades; instead coming with Frag and Stun. Krak grenades would cost a further 35 credits bringing the cheapest Ganger built in this manner to 165 credits. Other Gangs have similar options such as Chaos Cultists who can also field massed Grenade Lauchers (with Frag and Krak) at a price of 90 Credits per Ganger, Genestealer Cults can do the same for 100 Credits per Ganger.​

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I am also assured that any Gang is more than capable of breaking the game when the strong points of their respective gangs are lent into or exploited. Corpse Grinder Cult spamming Infiltrating Hand Flamer Juves, Goliath Genesmithing (and both causing issues with their melee monsters in the cramped spaces of 2D Sector Mortalis games), Van Saar spamming Plasma gunlines (especially in 3D Sector Mechanicus games), Delaque phasing Nachtgouls, Lucky Legendary Name Orlocks with Cans of Worms and Cawdor spamming cheap one shot flamer upgrades are among a few of the examples i have seen brought up.​

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Most of Games Workshop’s Games are capable of being bent or broken in this matter however Necromunda has always struck me as a game where there was an unwritten ‘Gentleman’s Agreement’ between players when it came to the building of Gangs. With players encouraged to build balanced and narrative Gangs rather than leaning into or exploiting a Gang’s strengths with a view to breaking the game.​

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I can assure you i have no intention of making any attempts to abuse the game in this manner. My intention is to build a narrative and balanced gang making use of the various equipment and weapons available. I’m sure the other players intend to play in the same manner.​

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4. Enforcers are restricted to the same shooting targeting rules as all other Gangs.​

You are correct in that Enforcer Gangs are problematic specifically in Dominion Campaigns however it appears that this is to their detriment rather than their benefit.

With the rules as they are currently written the following apply to Enforcer Gangs in Dominion Campaigns (Page 30, The Book of Judgement):

• Can’t be awarded the Dominator Triumph and instead are awarded the Peacekeeper Triumph if two or more players hold the same number of Territories
• If Enforcer Gangs gain control of a Territory they can either pass over control of the Territory to another Gang of their choosing in an effort to maintain the power balance between Gangs (and help them obtain their Peacekeeper Triumph) OR
• They can keep control of the Territory however gain no Boons from said territory

With no Boons this means no income from these Territories, no free/discounted equipment, no re-rolls on ammo checks, no reputation bonuses, no bonus skills or infiltrate/tunnel deployment abilities, no free/discounted Hired Guns/Hangers-On etc.

This would limit Enforcer Gangs to a Maximum of 1D6x10 Credits of Territory income during the Income phase of the Post Battle Sequence and puts a significant limit on their revenue allowing other Gangs to quickly pull away from them in such Campaigns.

Due to these restrictive income issues Arbitrators appear to have come up with various methods to help Enforcers not fall behind in Dominion Campaigns; a couple of the options i have read being utilized were:

• Ignoring the Enforcer Gangs Dominion Territory rules instead allowing them to utilize the Territory Income and Boons in the same manner as other gangs
• Ignoring the Enforcer Gangs Dominion Territory rules, instead allowing them to utilize the Territory Income but denying access to all other Boons provided by the Territory

Other issues that Enforcer Gangs contend with are some of the lowest main line stats out of the currently available Gangs with the Champions and Gangers sitting on 4+WS/BS/Initiative and 1Attack. The Leader is the only Fighter who gets bonuses in this regard with his 3+WS and 2Attacks (the other main stats being the same as the Champions/Gangers).

In summary it seems to be that the consensus regarding the power level of the Enforcers is at best in line with the House Gangs/Corpse Grinder Cults but are more likely a step below them on the power scale. Given this i would appreciate if you would consider the points raised and spare a thought to allowing my use of the Enforcers in the Campaign.

An article that may also help shape an opinion on the matter can be found at:

https://www.goonhammer.com/necromunday-gangs-of-the-underhive-palanite-enforcers/

In which there is an up to date (30/05/2022) comprehensive review of the Enforcer Gangs strengths and weaknesses including the writer’s opinion on their current ‘power level’ compared to the other Gangs.

If the answer is still no after this consideration then i will humbly accept the decision and not bring it up any further (until the next Campaign of course!).

Best regards and see you on the tabletop!

 

[Hawkins44]

What an extensive way to say 'learn the game ffs', haha. Nicely written, though.

One thing, I'd just remove this part

If the answer is still no after this consideration then i will humbly accept the decision and not bring it up any further (until the next Campaign of course!).

And simply asked him to reconsider his stance. Saying you will humbly accept his decision might lead to him saying 'no' without any further thought about what you wrote.

Saying this from experience.

 

[Stompzilla]

Enforcers overpowered? Their heads going to explode when they see Corpse Grinders, or Van Saar, or Goliaths

My thoughts exactly!

Use them as Van-Saar. Seems the best fit with their shields, great gear and armour etc.