N18 First time necromunda player. Delaque gang.

SPKnox

Ganger
Jun 1, 2018
97
54
18
Tennessee
I get that it is powerful tactic. And I understand that it breaks the game if abused. My point was to still give yourself that option to utilize that tactic because it is one of the main strengths of the gang. Your gang is still effective even if you didn't turn out the lights, but by still having the ability it completely changes how the rest of the players approach the game.

But I reckon you are correct, getting to play is the most important thing.
 

almic85

Gang Hero
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2014
1,619
2,742
153
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
This is a copy of my old nightfighters starting list. I dropped pitch black at start of each game and would send the juve up to get lit up and start picking off anyone who showed themselves with the shotguns before running the template in and saving the unsilenced rifle till last, (infra sight is only 12" range unless target has exposed, where its just normal use more for games with light and height). Everyone is silent bar the sniper and two champs get added bonuses if the eyes in the dark tactic is played. https://yaktribe.games/underhive/gang/crystophexia.152075/ also great list for any games with sentries. However it was a power douche move and people avoided playing them, unless I promised to only choose tactics randomly and no sentry games....
I assume you have a house rule about juves in gang composition as RAW your list needs one more ganger or one less champ/juve to be legal.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
847
1,446
133
Edinburgh, UK
I assume you have a house rule about juves in gang composition as RAW your list needs one more ganger or one less champ/juve to be legal.
That's a silly complaint now that the House books have changed things? And arguably free juves from territories or rackets could really imbalance a GoTU gang.
 
Jun 18, 2018
15
6
3
Carmarthen
Did it in first 2 rounds of campaign (5other players) by end of 2nd round people started saying did he play lights out again.... No one wanted to play 3rd round without caveat of me picking everything random as was snowballing ahead by this point.
 
Jun 18, 2018
15
6
3
Carmarthen
A much more humorous tactic is the friend or foe card that allows you to go stand next to people without being targetable, have had a few fun moments of walking a mini up behind an important character and just be there waiting to back stab on next activation,very nasty on a character with overwatch as well for positioning a template.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
847
1,446
133
Edinburgh, UK
As it stands it’s still the rules whether it makes sense or not.

It’s why I assumed he had a house rule rather than saying he was flat out wrong.
Fair fair, although I do think "illegal" is a strong word for this game given it is almost all about the houserules that make it work - that's possibly what sparked my misplaced pique - anyway my apologies, it was a bit rude my language.

I guess it depends whether they are using NCR since it updated wholescale, or using GotU still, or another ruleset.
 
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Jun 18, 2018
15
6
3
Carmarthen
No it was just a very old gang I did a memory cock up on. I always found it odd that juves were not part of the core make up, glad that's changed with new books.
 

SPKnox

Ganger
Jun 1, 2018
97
54
18
Tennessee
Did it in first 2 rounds of campaign (5other players) by end of 2nd round people started saying did he play lights out again.... No one wanted to play 3rd round without caveat of me picking everything random as was snowballing ahead by this point.
That is sad they threw in the towel that quickly. Our group instituted a round Robin format to keep people from cherry picking their opponents.
 

EAfirstlast

Ganger
Aug 31, 2017
169
114
53
Alexandria, VA, USA
Did it in first 2 rounds of campaign (5other players) by end of 2nd round people started saying did he play lights out again.... No one wanted to play 3rd round without caveat of me picking everything random as was snowballing ahead by this point.
Turning the lights out has a simple counter everyone should have picked up on by round 3.

Buy photogoggles people

This is my issue with people bitching about delaque sight tricks. The delaque player is preinvesting in ways to avoid blocking their own line of sight, at a slight discount. But investing in the counter is just too damn hard for some players I guess.
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
847
1,446
133
Edinburgh, UK
Turning the lights out has a simple counter everyone should have picked up on by round 3.

Buy photogoggles people

This is my issue with people bitching about delaque sight tricks. The delaque player is preinvesting in ways to avoid blocking their own line of sight, at a slight discount. But investing in the counter is just too damn hard for some players I guess.
It is more that during a campaign in which there might be only one delaque player and perhaps 5 or 6 non-delaque players, investing in photogoggles at 35 credits a piece is expensive; you can't count on being able to swap a few among your crew due to random selection on many scenarios as well - so to properly prepare for Delaque (and possibly Escher) dark tricks you need quite a few.

While many campaigns have a lot of cash, that is only if you are doing well; and who knows, your campaign might have restricted cash. Even when you do have a lot of cash, what's better - three photogoggles or another champion? Three photogoggles or saving for that ambot? Three photogoggles or a plasmagun? A photogoggle or an armoured undersuit or ablative overlay? Rarely will you have several hundred creds to buy a good number of these kind of items or new recruits, and more often than not, a player will be going for the champ, the ambot, the weapon, or armour, falsehood, or a few other select items - over any other kind of gear. This is a general problem across Necromunda - no one will ever really buy or use the bottle of wildsnake or second best, the cred sniffer, the data thief, the suspensor harness, the ratskin map, the obscura or a host of other great, thematic pieces of equipment because they cost too much & have situational (ie thematic or fluffy) benefits versus those more 'gamey' choices I listed (or others).

Does that make sense?
 

EAfirstlast

Ganger
Aug 31, 2017
169
114
53
Alexandria, VA, USA
It is more that during a campaign in which there might be only one delaque player and perhaps 5 or 6 non-delaque players, investing in photogoggles at 35 credits a piece is expensive; you can't count on being able to swap a few among your crew due to random selection on many scenarios as well - so to properly prepare for Delaque (and possibly Escher) dark tricks you need quite a few.

While many campaigns have a lot of cash, that is only if you are doing well; and who knows, your campaign might have restricted cash. Even when you do have a lot of cash, what's better - three photogoggles or another champion? Three photogoggles or saving for that ambot? Three photogoggles or a plasmagun? A photogoggle or an armoured undersuit or ablative overlay? Rarely will you have several hundred creds to buy a good number of these kind of items or new recruits, and more often than not, a player will be going for the champ, the ambot, the weapon, or armour, falsehood, or a few other select items - over any other kind of gear. This is a general problem across Necromunda - no one will ever really buy or use the bottle of wildsnake or second best, the cred sniffer, the data thief, the suspensor harness, the ratskin map, the obscura or a host of other great, thematic pieces of equipment because they cost too much & have situational (ie thematic or fluffy) benefits versus those more 'gamey' choices I listed (or others).

Does that make sense?
Then accept that you're gonna have trouble against the Delaque player that did, infact, invest a whole bunch of money and cards into making turning off the lights work.

If you aren't in a position to buy them because your gang is getting dumpstered, then you're pretty boned against everyone anyways. Necromunda has always struggled with good catchup mechanics.

EDIT: Photogoggles are also a hard requirement against a melee gang. Especially CGC. You will just lose if you can't target a CGC butcher through smoke.
 

SPKnox

Ganger
Jun 1, 2018
97
54
18
Tennessee
This was my thoughts, with everyone's answer is to throw smoke, you would think more people would be investing in infrasights and photogoggles on their key pieces. Melee gangs without reach are the real ones that suffer.
 
Oct 21, 2020
21
10
3
Just played our first game of the dominion campaign. Had a lot of fun! This group uses a house rule which limits one skill per gang until all available skills have been used. Good rule that limits cookie cutter builds.

Leader. Overseer.

Champion. Plasmagun. Trick shot.

Champion. Plasmagun. Fast shot.

Ganger. Long rifle.

2x Ganger. Shotguns.

4x Ganger. Lasguns.

I ended up with 120 creds. I got a high roll on my rarity. Thinking ill get a set of uphive rainments that will hopefully pay dividends. Grab an ammo jack and a hotshot laspack for one of the gangers.

Other hotshot laspacks are a priority buy. Since I can't spam trickshot and plasma, I will likely make the next champion I get a webgun hipshooter. After that, likely a gunfighter with some combination of plasma pistol and flechette pistol. Not sure if an infiltrate webgun or backstab webber and plasma/flechette pistol would be a preferable skill following that.

Any juves I get from my settlement will likely get a webpistol slapped on them. Any future gangers bought get a bolter on recruitment.
 
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almic85

Gang Hero
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2014
1,619
2,742
153
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
I wouldn’t bother with the backstab fighter as it’s too hard to actually get use out of.

A hip shooting webgun is a strong choice as is an overwatch long rifle or grav gun for a bit of board control.

Gunfighter builds sound fun but are also a bit underwhelming once you get them on the board.

Can I suggest you also buy a weapon of some description for your leader. I know the point of him is to be cheap and overseer either of your two plasmaguns but at some point you are going to get a random selection scenario where he is on the board without them and he will still need to pull his weight.
 
Oct 21, 2020
21
10
3
I think you're right about backstab and gunslinger. So hipshooting, then overwatch. I hadn't given the grav gun any consideration, but in combination with overwatch that looks absolutely brutal! Do you think it's worth the 90 creds more than a long rifle on a champion with overwatch? At that point i might just prefer to run a third plasmagun with overwatch. You've piqued my interest.

What sort of weapons would you suggest for the leader that can be reasonably cheap yet effective? Web gauntlet flechette pistol?
 

almic85

Gang Hero
Tribe Council
Oct 30, 2014
1,619
2,742
153
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
For the leader I find a web gauntlet and flechette pistol is great. It has enough Insta killing power for people not to come close to him but also isn’t a big enough threat that people try to hit them first.

The grav gun gets better later in the campaign as the graviton pulse special rule ignores armour. It’s also a good board control and anti charge weapon when paired with overwatch as even if you miss the blast can scatter in the way and still slow down attackers.

It obviously doesn’t have the range of a long rifle and is a bit weaker (essentially a S3 weapon) but it’s ability to ignore armour saves and cause 2 damage makes it better against S3 Save 5+ opponents (which is nearly everyone).