N18 First time player, 1000pts Enforcers

[MoffWibbles]

Hello there!
At the behest of my D&D group, I am getting into Necromunda after a decade-long break from the 41st millennium. Members of our group have already picked Orlocks (which probably would have been my go-to) and Goliaths, so after a bit of research I found myself drawn to the Enforcer gang. As a former Guard player, the idea of baseline humans with decent equipment trying to hold the line against all manner of heresy appeals to me - the Judge Dredd vibe certainly doesn't hurt, either!


After some scheming, I've come up with a couple of potential list ideas:

BREACH, BANG AND CLEAR

This was the first list I came up with, based loosely on nostalgia from playing SWAT 3, Rainbow Six Siege and Republic Commando. I wanted a unit that could punch through a locked door, stun anyone on the other side non-lethally, and then eliminate criminals before they had a chance to recover. To achieve this, I used a basic three-man team as the nucleus of the squad. The combination of Concussion Carbine and Flash Grenades seems like it would be beautiful. For the third enforcer (the one who, in theory, will go in and finish off any stunned perpetrators) I decided against the Boltgun. It's a very effective weapon, but it just didn't strike me as thematic for space cops. A nice shotty, however, seems perfect for blowing off heads and with a template it means I don't have to worry about the middling BS my lads have.

Two of these fire teams fills out the list. The Captain is equipped with a Boltgun (if anyone's going to have such a rare and nasty weapon, it should be the head honcho), who will accompany whichever of the fireteams he feels needs some slightly heavier firepower. This list relies on medium-range shenanigans, so priority for upgrades will be smoke grenades for the Sergeants, and more lads to bring each team up to four. A potential tweak I am toying with is downgrading the Captain to a Sniper Rifle (so he can force enemies to come to me), using the freed up points to get a head start on the smoke grenades.

LESS THAN LETHAL:

I'm not sure if this is an evolution of the previous list, or a devolution of it. As I started to play around with storyline ideas, I watched a couple of movies for inspiration. It seems most SWAT teams roll in groups of four or more, so I needed a reason that my lads couldn't even muster two full teams. Hot Fuzz gave me an idea - what if this particular Precinct was in a 'quiet' part of town, and so kept getting troops and heavy equipment transferred to more volatile zones, leaving a sleepy police force that isn't at a particularly high degree of readiness? Even better, what if the Precinct-Captain is determined to keep it that way, to the point of forcing his subordinates to carry non-lethal weapons to prevent escalation?

I was also trying to figure out a way to get those smoke grenades in, mostly because I was afraid of Van Saar gunlines, and the two solutions met neatly in the middle. By replacing the two shotguns in the list with Concussion Carbines, and the Boltgun with a Sniper Rifle, I freed up enough points to do what I wanted AND to give everyone dumdum ammunition for their pistol. With the pistol becoming the primary 'lethal' armament, it made sense to beef them up a little bit. Plus, the lawgiver vibe of switching between ammunition was nice.

The idea here is that when a campaign starts, the Enforcers are caught with their pants down. When they realize things are more serious than they expected (after a game or two), they reach into the armoury and start breaking out the actually lethal weapons. Of course, by that point the 'lawgiver' vibe of the Stub Pistol with Dumdums got me thinking...

THE GRENADE LAUNCHER IS A LAWGIVER!

Okay, hear me out. The Subjugator Grenade Launcher is a one-handed weapon capable of firing up to SEVEN(!) types of ammunition, ranging from non-lethal stun round to AP, fragmentation, smoke and flares. If I wanted versatility and non-lethal options, the Subjugator Grenade Launcher had pretty much everything I wanted. Flashbang a room? Photon Grenades. Protect me from Van Saar snipers? Smoke Grenades. Take down that Stimmer before he stomps me into paste? Krak Grenades. Use beanbag ammunition until someone surrenders? Stun Grenades.

As it turns out, you can fit six Subjugators with Grenade Launchers into a 1,000 list, with enough points left to give everyone a special ammunition type (as long as it is 15pts). The thing I love about this idea is that it is INCREDIBLY versatile (with anyone able to take up any role in the Breach, Bang and Clear setup, you can adapt to different situations), and it can very easily grow to meet changing requirements. Just buy the ammo you need.

This leans really heavy into the Dredd vibe in composition as well. Whilst I can organize two 'SWAT' teams, I could also pair each of my Patrolmen with a veteran and run classic 'street cop' two person patrols.

The issue is, having NEVER played Necromunda in my life, I have no idea if these lists are actually any good or not, and I likewise have absolutely no idea what skills would work for my grenadiers and captain. Any feedback, constructive criticism or advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Hawkins44]

After reading your ideas, none of the lists are particulary good, with the last one being the worst. 1) spam lists are not fun, 2) you need more reliable weapons than grenade launchers. While they indeed are one of the best weapons in game, they are not the ultimate solution for everything.

The second theme will get you killed fast. Enforcers have poor stats, but good equipment, on which you rely to survive. Holding back that much as you described will probably give you 1st class ticket on Cemetery Express train after a few games.

The best (potentially most effective) theme you listed in the first one.
Have two identical fireteams, each with a shotgun and c-carbine, and one with pistol and maybe grenades (using your second 'poor cops' theme idea), then a boltgun captain, and if you have creds spare, a single g-launcher guy/gal. (Giving you 7-8 patrol members)

C-carbines are nasty weapons for their price, and enforcer boltguns are hands down the best basic weapon in game. Don't bother with DumDums unless you have spare credits, and don't bother with a sniper rifle either, unless you play on open maps.

Smoke grenades and flashbangs are your good friends. Use them.

Combining all your gear and using it with combos can result in you defeating the enemy gang in a single turn, leaving everyone blinded, wounded, killed, arrested or cornered. (Happened to me. Poor van saar) And don't forget about magnacles. They are fun too, and you can use them right after you charge.

 

[Heart of Storm]

First list is definitely the best list, the second and third list lack anything that can deal with T4 plus and with one of your opponents fielding Goliath you need to reliably deal with T4, and possibly T5 plus.

Boltguns as mentioned are the best weapon in the enforcer roster, they're cheaper and more reliable than any boltgun anyone else can put a hand to, long rifles are your "cheap" S4 option in the weapons roster.

Combat shotguns are alright, they're pricier than a boltgun, and trade range for a template which can be useful for slowing down melee threats, so having one or two around isn't terrible, but the cheap and cheerful concussion carbine is just as effective at forcing pins.

For high toughness models you'll want krak grenades on your grenade launcher, its the only high strength weapon you can get out the gate and Goliath can start at T5, of the other grenade types, Flash is useful against Goliath and Van Saar, smoke probably isn't the best choice for your boys, it has some utility but its a pick up later ammo type, not a starting necessity.

 

[MoffWibbles]

Thanks for the feedback! I can definitely see your points - all the Grenade Launchers in the world won't help unless I can give them good ammunition, and T5 is a scary proposition! I've come up with three revised lists that hopefully are a bit more refined and reasonable:

Breach, Bang & Clear 2.0
Breach, Bang & Clear 2.1

After taking on some feedback, I've refined this list slightly to ensure that I have an option against high-toughness targets, such as Goliath Stimmers and gene-modded Leaders. This was done by upgrading the Flash Grenades on one of my Subjugator Sergeants to a Krak. In order to make this fit, I had to free up 20 points. I had two options for doing this: Either downgrade the Shotguns on my Patrolmen to Boltguns (not much of a downgrade in effectiveness, but definitely one in theme), or downgrade the Boltgun on my Captain to a Concussion Carbine. I've got the models to do either option if I need to.
The loss of a flash grenade is definitely felt, but you've made good points - I need an answer to T5!

Elite Enforcers 1.0

I felt the urge to continue experimenting with six-person builds, partly because I like the symmetry, and partly because I wanted to see how much of a firepower increase I could squeeze out of them. This list consists of two symmetrical fireteams with a simple plan: Stun priority targets using a Flash/Concussion combo, then finish them off with Krak Grenades. Every Enforcer has a part to play - the Concussion lads protect from enemy snipers, then drop enemy initiative. This allows the Shotgunners to deny activations with Flash Grenades (ideally, this one-two punch would be a group activation). This allows the Subjugators to Krak targets at will. It's a high-risk, high-reward strategy that is designed for headhunting enemy leaders. I could drop the Dum-Dums and Smoke Grenades to upgrade a Concussion Carbine to a Heavy Assault Ram, which IS tempting. If I did that, I'd probably give the Ram to the Captain (making him a Subjugator) and transfer the Shotguns to my Sergeants so that I can still conform to the 'Two Patrolmen must match the Captain' rule.

Again, I've still got absolutely no idea what to go with for skills. Here's my thoughts:

TEAMWORK: Giving Teamwork to one of my Sergeants lets him activate two buddies instead of just one, allowing him to lead a fireteam with the same overall efficiency as my Captain. This would let both of my fireteams be able to pull a 'Conc, Flash, Kill' combo in a single group activation, giving me more tactical symmetry.
INFILTRATE: In a seven man list, giving one of my Sergeants infiltrate and then something nasty like a Shotgun or Sniper Rifle could be fun, but I am definitely wary of sending one of my lads off alone.
HIP SHOOTING: A possible alternative to Infiltrate for a 'Loose Cannon' Sergeant with a Shotgun. A Shotgun that could eventually get fire ammo or become a Webber...
FAST SHOT: I'm a little wary of being required to stay put in order to get use out of this, but being able to double-tap with a GRENADE LAUNCHER(!) sounds fun.
TRICK SHOT: Haha, no cover for you! Seems like it would work best on, say, a Boltgun Captain...

Again, any feedback, ideas or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Heart of Storm]

Of the lists, I think Breach, Bang and Clear 2.0 is the strongest, boltguns are to my mind stronger than combat shotguns, and having to lose a s4 weapon on your captain for what I look on as a strict downgrade means the 2.1 list is a lot less appealing.

For your third list, double krak is nice, but you have a lot of equipment bloat on those 6 gangers that doesnt necessarily make them better than an extra body, action economy is a big thing in Necromunda and a 6 model gang means you'll almost always be on the receiving end of it, opponents will be able to bait out your moves with less important models, and then move freely at the end of a turn without having to worry about you being able to respond.

A 6 member gang also means you'll be taking bottle checks after a single out of action, 7 models gives you some more resilience.

Small gangs only really works with the likes of Goliaths, who can genesmith tough, durable models who won't get taken out easily, for everyone else more models are strictly better than lots of gear, its part of what makes enforcers, with their expensive baseline models, such a tough one to build a starter gang with.

As for skills, group activation is to my mind very situational - see what I said on action economy. The other choice which is useful is the skill that lets you take a free shot on charging enemy models, its a nice way to neutralise melee gangs, especially paired with something like a concussion carbine with its blast.

 

[Jam Warrior]

The concussion weapons that can pin Goliath characters with Nerves of Steel will give your opponent a bad day.

 

[Stompzilla]

Group activations are much less situational than being able to shoot at someone who charges you (Which will often be from out of Los, meaning you can't shoot at them with that skill anyway).

Group activations if done at the right time and in the right way, win you games.

Whilst I would agree with the vat majority of what Heart of Storm wrote and would say that it is very good advice, that bit about group activating, really wasn't.

If you've got access to a skill that lets you group activate more than your usual allotment - that's a good skill and worthy of consideration.

*Edited due to crappy predictive text*

 

[Heart of Storm]

Group activations are much less situational than being able to shoot at someone who charges you (Which will often be from out of Los, meaning you can't shit at them abreast).

Group activations if done at the right time and in the right way, win you games.

Whilst I would agree with the vat majority of what Heart of Storm wrote and would say that it is very good advice, that bit about group activating, really wasn't.

If you've got access to a skill that lets you group activate more than your usual allotment - that's a good skill and worthy of consideration.

Agree to disagree, I can think of very very few occasions when I've ever wanted to group activate more models than a leader/champions base allocation, I can think of many situations where I wish my enforcers weren't in melee.

YMMV of course.

 

[Stompzilla]

I've never once seen "Got your 6" actually work against a decent player. They either charge from round a corner, or through a smoke cloud, nullifying the skill.

Threat Response isn't too bad and I've seen that pay off but you do need to equip the guy with it for melee.

I personally use big group activations all the time (and commanding presence is rapidly becoming one of my favourite skills) to absolutely devastating effect. If you can activate 3 or 4, well placed guys before your opponent even gets a right of reply...

Let's just say it ain't pretty.

Especially if you play a decent amount of ZM games, where doors are a factor, or a good variety of missions that involve scooting loot off the table, hacking terminals, searching etc.

 

[Psyan]

IMO, being able to activate extra models in a group action only becomes seriously good if you outnumber your opponent; otherwise you're allowing them to make actions later in the turn with no response from you until the next turn. It's a pretty spiffy skill for Cawdor, but maybe not so great for low-number Enforcers.

Shooting skills are generally your best bet for Enforcers. They can make those great Boltguns and Grenade Launchers even better.
If you want to go outside of Shooting for skills, Cunning can be great for your Sergeants. Overwatch (w Sniper Rifle, Boltgun or Grenade Launcher) and Infiltrate (with any of the above or for the bolder player, a Combat Shotgun) can really disrupt your opponent's plans. Out of the Palanite skills, Got Your Six works like Overwatch, but is only effective for disrupting charges and Threat Response is basically the same thing, except you need a good melee fighter (usually your Captain) to make it worthwhile. I'd pass on the other Enforcer skills.

 

[Stompzilla]

Yeah, shooting and cunning are 2 off the best skill sets for sure. Hip shooting combat shotguns with Firestorm Ammo are horrendously effective.

I have to disagree with you regarding the group activations though. Even if outnumbered, if you can team up to take out your opponent's best fighters, or the only fighters that are in a position to be able to do anything to you this turn - before they get to activate, it almost doesn't matter how many Juves or out of position gangers your opponent has to activate afterwards.

Totally agree that shooting and cunning skills are the straightforward best though.

 

[MrAndersson]

Yeah, shooting and cunning are 2 off the best skill sets for sure. Hip shooting combat shotguns with Firestorm Ammo are horrendously effective.

Hip shooting with a combat shotgun is your example why the shooting skill tree is good?

I mean, off the top of my head, I would be much more terrified of a trick shot heavy bolter.

 

[Psyan]

Well, sure... a Heavy Bolter and Suspensor is over 200cr and that Combat Shotgun is only 60. The HB should be far more scary.

Trick Shot is better (IMO) than the guys over at Goonhammer rate it, especially with a heavy weapon, but Hip Shooting is still my favorite Shooting skill. It pairs really well with Melta Guns, Web Guns or Combat Shotguns.

 

[Jam Warrior]

Trick shot is essentially a situational +1 to hit. Yes v useful but also so boring and also achievable with a BS level up or gun sight for wider application.

Hip Shooting or Fast Shot are definitely the way I’d go for shooting skills.

 

[mateyboy3000]

Trick shot is essentially a situational +1 to hit. Yes v useful but also so boring and also achievable with a BS level up or gun sight for wider application.

Situational is being rather harsh don't you think, it should be easy to get at least partial cover from some main angles when you're playing inside the hive.

Yes it doesn't have the flashiest effect but it can be combined with any weapon making it universally useful on a shooting fighter

 

[Jam Warrior]

No doubt it's good in a one off game, I just like to think longer term where I could get the same effect (plus more) with an infra-sight and have my skill be allowing me to do something otherwise completely unavailable to me.

And it is situational. If your target has no cover it isn't doing anything.

It's why I'd say the priority for weapons stats is roughly + to hit over AP over strength as those are the order in which those stats are likely to be having an effect on your eventual chance to wound.

 

[Psyan]

An infrasight doesn't work on rapid fire weapons, which makes Trick Shot very useful on Boltguns, Plasma Guns and Heavy Bolters... which are coincidentally some of the most effective weapons in the game.
Is it useful in every situation? Of course not. But like a lot of things, it's certainly helpful in some situations.

 

[MrAndersson]

I don't know about others, but our group plays with enough terrain that getting an unobstructed shot is rare. Hence why I think trick shot is one of the best skills in the game.

Infra-sight is obviously a substitute, but very few of the good weapons allow it.

 

[Jam Warrior]

Here’s another way to put it. If I start with Hip Shooting and spend my first xp on a BS boost then I’m in exactly the same position (assuming all shots are into cover) as if I started with Trick Shot and spent my first xp on Hip Shooting. But for 3 xp less.

But I’m not saying taking Trick Shot is wrong. It makes sense if you want to stack to hit rather than play with the other skills. Just giving you the reasons I wouldn’t take it.

 

[MrAndersson]

If I start with Hip Shooting and spend my first xp on a BS boost then I’m in exactly the same position (assuming all shots are into cover) as if I started with Trick Shot and spent my first xp on Hip Shooting. But for 3 xp less.

Sure. But if you start with trick shot and buy BS for your upgrade, then you will be in an even better spot. No need to run around the battlefield like a maniac. Aim and shoot, and you will always be hitting on 2+.