Why over-complicate stuff?
Just make all elixirs reusable and adjust the price for those that would be too strong. Done.
Just make all elixirs reusable and adjust the price for those that would be too strong. Done.
How will we know what is too strong until someone wins their local game store tournament?
We'd have to adjust prices for about 15 items...
Why not just buy the clan chymist before turn 1? Done.
Any player with a decent grasp of math and a few dozen games under their belt will be able to balance the game better than GW has.
And I don't think there are 15 chems that would need adjustment, more like 5-6.
Prime candidates for a price increase would be Night night, Blood rush, Bane and Blackout. Possibly Hyper and Wide-eye as well.
Here is my take:
1). While an Escher gang has an elixir/toxin/gas stashed, it counts as knowing formula for that specific chem. So to learn and manifacture new chem, you have to spend double credits of its usual cost - one vial goes into the stash and second, third and so on into any fighter's inventory. Any fighter who uses chem without their gang knowing its formula, has to delete that chem from inventory after use.
This makes it so you have to cash out to learn new recipes and gives a sense of progression, while not making it too pricy to stop experimenting completely. Escher can still do a side hustle of trading their chems, however for everyone but other Escher these chems are one-time use. Other Escher gangs can stash the bought chem to learn its formula. Also it leaves opportunity to have narrative scenarios dedicated to stealing other Escher'skrusty krab formula chem formula.
2). After the game is over, roll D6 if more than 2 fielded fighters had the same chem equipped. If you roll less than that number, delete the original chem-formula from your stash as the demand has strayed your manufacturing capabilities for that particular chem. You have to wait a number of games equal to the rolled number before you can repurchase the original chem-formula.
This is to force chem variety while still allowing you to spam it, should you wish.
3). Mark all Chem effects with letters. Should the formula contain more than one effect with the same letter, increase its cost by 10 for every repeated letter. Example:
This allows to mark out combos which are more powerful than your average mix, so they are costed more appropriately. Narrative-wise you are mixing components which do not go well together chemically, so you need additional refinement to make the chem stable.
4). For overly powerful stimms such as Night-night add some sort of addiction effect. I find it weird how we do not have some sort of negative consequences for battle drugs.
Rolling multiple times on injury table for the opponent to pick the worst with Maiming is just toxic and does not help you win the game.
I don't see the problem with Blood rush at all. RAW you should not be able to use it, as injured fighters can only Crawl and can't Administer dose to themselves, unless I'm missing something. Even if they could do that, I don't think that the effect is too crazy. All it does is allows escher player to rely on some fighters not needing recovery assistance and be more mobile, which is fine by me.
1). While an Escher gang has an elixir/toxin/gas stashed, it counts as knowing formula for that specific chem. So to learn and manifacture new chem, you have to spend double credits of its usual cost - one vial goes into the stash and second, third and so on into any fighter's inventory. Any fighter who uses chem without their gang knowing its formula, has to delete that chem from inventory after use.
This makes it so you have to cash out to learn new recipes and gives a sense of progression, while not making it too pricy to stop experimenting completely. Escher can still do a side hustle of trading their chems, however for everyone but other Escher these chems are one-time use. Other Escher gangs can stash the bought chem to learn its formula. Also it leaves opportunity to have narrative scenarios dedicated to stealing other Escher's
2). After the game is over, roll D6 if more than 2 fielded fighters had the same chem equipped. If you roll less than that number, delete the original chem-formula from your stash as the demand has strayed your manufacturing capabilities for that particular chem. You have to wait a number of games equal to the rolled number before you can repurchase the original chem-formula.
This is to force chem variety while still allowing you to spam it, should you wish.
3). Mark all Chem effects with letters. Should the formula contain more than one effect with the same letter, increase its cost by 10 for every repeated letter. Example:
- Acidic - 20cr - (A)
- Bane - 15cr - (A)
- Blackout - 30cr - (B).
This allows to mark out combos which are more powerful than your average mix, so they are costed more appropriately. Narrative-wise you are mixing components which do not go well together chemically, so you need additional refinement to make the chem stable.
4). For overly powerful stimms such as Night-night add some sort of addiction effect. I find it weird how we do not have some sort of negative consequences for battle drugs.
Night-Night and Maiming should just be reworked, both are unhealthy for the game. Night-night should let you roll twice, pick the better result. Also I think that Night-night should expire after use.
Rolling multiple times on injury table for the opponent to pick the worst with Maiming is just toxic and does not help you win the game.
I don't see the problem with Blood rush at all. RAW you should not be able to use it, as injured fighters can only Crawl and can't Administer dose to themselves, unless I'm missing something. Even if they could do that, I don't think that the effect is too crazy. All it does is allows escher player to rely on some fighters not needing recovery assistance and be more mobile, which is fine by me.
spafe
Executive Officer in charge of Hats
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Are you one of those people who wouldnt let a spawn stand up as well?On night night, am I right in thinking you have to rebuy after every game? or only when its triggered?
Other fighters can do an Administer Dose (Simple) to a friendly fighter in B2B contact, that's how Blood Rush works.
On night night, am I right in thinking you have to rebuy after every game? or only when its triggered?
OT:
I have to confess that our group is the in camp of not letting the Spawn be pinned for what ever reason.
The Spawn is not only an abomination in fluff but rule-wise as well.
It has so many broken interactions and barely functions in a game that barely functions as well.
We have simply resorted to just avoid getting the Spawn into situations that isn't really covered by the game and hope for the best, not unlike calmy guiding a sedated elephant through a porcelain store.
In case of Administer dose, your fighter could be in such a bad shape, that using blood rush on themselves becomes impossible. After all you cannot do any other actions when injured. Its not clear what the narrative intent was, unlike pinned spawn (clearly the intent is that he'd be able to get up)
On night night, am I right in thinking you have to rebuy after every game? or only when its triggered?
For night-night could be either way, I would say when triggered.
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Personally I'd say changing of in game usage rules and reviewing all individual chem prices is definitely more complicated a change than just giving you a recurring source of creds to spend in the existing system. Plus the recurring creds system gives you more flexibility to experiment with chems between games rather than locking you in to one chem on purchase, which sounds more fun to me.
@ all
Ive just checked the wording for blood rush (HoB):
"Effect: When this stimm is administered to a fighter, that fighter may remove a single Flesh Wound or immediately recover from being Seriously Injured."
This can be understood when contrasted with bio-booster (GoTU):
"the first time in each game that an injury roll is made for a fighter with a bio-booster, one less injury dice is rolled. If only one dice was being rolled, two dice are rolled and the player controlling the fighter with the bio-booster can discard one of them"
I have underlined what i think the prescient wording is. It seems that bio-boosters just activate themselves whereas blood rush needs to be "administered", which means it has to be an action... however when checking in the books i cannot see where it says administer drugs is an action... (sorry if i missed something)
But lets just use the thematic explanation. If YOU were shot and were conscious enough to crawl, you are probably conscious enough to stab yourself with an injector of blood rush. Considering this is a single use thing, it doesnt seem game-breaking. Nore does it have a significant overlap with the bio-booster, which is not single use.
Ive just checked the wording for blood rush (HoB):
"Effect: When this stimm is administered to a fighter, that fighter may remove a single Flesh Wound or immediately recover from being Seriously Injured."
This can be understood when contrasted with bio-booster (GoTU):
"the first time in each game that an injury roll is made for a fighter with a bio-booster, one less injury dice is rolled. If only one dice was being rolled, two dice are rolled and the player controlling the fighter with the bio-booster can discard one of them"
I have underlined what i think the prescient wording is. It seems that bio-boosters just activate themselves whereas blood rush needs to be "administered", which means it has to be an action... however when checking in the books i cannot see where it says administer drugs is an action... (sorry if i missed something)
But lets just use the thematic explanation. If YOU were shot and were conscious enough to crawl, you are probably conscious enough to stab yourself with an injector of blood rush. Considering this is a single use thing, it doesnt seem game-breaking. Nore does it have a significant overlap with the bio-booster, which is not single use.
I agree. I would not oppose removing them completely.
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As for Blood rush, you obviously wouldn't keep it on the fighter you intend to use it on. Instead you take it on an otherwise naked juve who hides behind the lines and acts as a "cheerleader" (increases your number of activations). If one of your valuable fighters gets seriously injured, this juve rushes forward and administers the chem, after which your leader/champion can stand up and shoot as normal, as if she had only been pinned.
"A fighter can start a battle under the effects of any stimm they are equipped with if they choose, or can administer that stimm during a battle to themselves or a friendly fighter in base contact by performing an Administer Dose (Simple) action during their activation." - just above the table with the chems.
I like Jawrippas 1st suggestion, but the 2nd one seems needlessly complicated again.
Reworked maiming by simply banning it, unless you want to be a care bear and let them pick the least bad effect - did the same with the palanite skill.
Agree that NN is ok for its cost (especially after Chymist discount) for what it does and should just be a single use life insurance.
EDIT: also, yes - if you can crawl, you can stab a stimm into your leg, but I count it as a double when SI
I like Jawrippas 1st suggestion, but the 2nd one seems needlessly complicated again.
Reworked maiming by simply banning it, unless you want to be a care bear and let them pick the least bad effect - did the same with the palanite skill.
Agree that NN is ok for its cost (especially after Chymist discount) for what it does and should just be a single use life insurance.
EDIT: also, yes - if you can crawl, you can stab a stimm into your leg, but I count it as a double when SI
if you administer it before the fight or administer it during and don't go OOA, then it is lost.
spafe
Executive Officer in charge of Hats
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
So as its a constant cost, is it OP? I actually dont know. The closest thing I can think is the goliath genesith to roll 2 lasting injuries and pick the best one, which is buy once and you have it forever (although it has a cost of opportunity in limiting what else you can pick to smith). If this has to be bought every game in order to work, whether its actually used or not, is that OP?
Night-night seems to need pre-administering and it's difficult to get your body to give it back just because it wasn't needed! Insurance that needs to be purchased on a per-game basis by my read. Given that you need to keep buying it, it doesn't sound too OP to me.
I'm away from books, how does Icrotic Slime from the black market compare? I seem to remember it does a similar job.
I'm away from books, how does Icrotic Slime from the black market compare? I seem to remember it does a similar job.
It’s Stinger Mould I was thinking of, not Icrotic Slime.
Use AFTER the injury roll to fix anything other than a double 6. I believe that should end any talk of Night Night being OP! (in a situation where you need to keep buying it)
Use AFTER the injury roll to fix anything other than a double 6. I believe that should end any talk of Night Night being OP! (in a situation where you need to keep buying it)
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