N18 Gadgeteer skill: Limited to one weapon?

[ch3weh]

Everywhere I read, people using the gadgeteer skill seem to be applying that rule to every weapon they carry. So for example, duel las carbines are being given that extra rapid fire to each weapon.

The skill sounds fun, but I have to ask, does the skill just apply to a single weapon or both if you're carrying two?

The skill rule stats:

2. Gadgeteer​

If this fighter is in the starting crew, prior to the first turn, they may modify the Weapon Traits of any weapon they carry that has the Plentiful trait. If they do so, until the end of the battle the weapon loses the Plentiful trait and gains one of the following, as chosen by the controlling player: Knockback, Pulverise, Rending or Shock. Alternatively, a Plentiful weapon with the Rapid Fire (X) trait can add one to the X value. E.g., a Rapid Fire (1) would become Rapid Fire (2).

Thanks in advance <3

 

[Aulenback]

any weapon they carry that has the Plentiful trait

The wording is awkward. "One" or "every" would have been a better writing choice than "any," since "any" could potentially mean either, depending on intent. That looks like an Arbtrator call, since we don't know the writers' intent. Sigh. The default interpretation would be "every" weapon they carry that has the Plentiful trait, but an Arbitrator figuring it means "any one" weapon that they carry would have just as solid a ground on which to stand.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Ah, the inevitable unintentional wording strikes again!!

I think (emphasis on I) that the following word “weapon” implies it’s probably one. Else it would be “weapons”.

I guess you can read it as multiple but that’s the charitable version.

It seems like it’s really a mix of both, the any refers to the multiple weapons your fighter might be carrying and the weapon bit is the singular.

So if you have three plentiful weapons, you can choose to modify any of those three, not all. They follow that up by using “the weapon” which is the definite article, which implies that they’re talking about a singular thing.

But you do you, it’s your game.

 

[ch3weh]

The wording is awkward. "One" or "every" would have been a better writing choice than "any," since "any" could potentially mean either, depending on intent. That looks like an Arbtrator call, since we don't know the writers' intent. Sigh. The default interpretation would be "every" weapon they carry that has the Plentiful trait, but an Arbitrator figuring it means "any one" weapon that they carry would have just as solid a ground on which to stand.

Thanks for replying. I'm yet to find a thread where others are asking this question, so maybe I'm just over thinking it. People seem to be just applying to every weapon they hold by default

 

[ch3weh]

Ah, the inevitable unintentional wording strikes again!!

I think (emphasis on I) that the following word “weapon” implies it’s probably one. Else it would be “weapons”.

I guess you can read it as multiple but that’s the charitable version.

It seems like it’s really a mix of both, the any refers to the multiple weapons your fighter might be carrying and the weapon bit is the singular.

So if you have three plentiful weapons, you can choose to modify any of those three, not all. They follow that up by using “the weapon” which is the definite article, which implies that they’re talking about a singular thing.

But you do you, it’s your game.

Singular is actually how I first read it to be fair. Although when reading how others were using it, my eyes popped out my head haha

 

[MusingWarboss]

Some people will take every opportunity to break a system. Others will see that and blindly follow as they believe it to be correct as everyone else is doing it.

Now… you could stand on principle that you think it is singular (why on earth would GW let someone mass modify all their guns??) OR you could just join them as, let’s face it, they probably won’t change and you’d only be putting yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[ch3weh]

Some people will take every opportunity to break a system. Others will see that and blindly follow as they believe it to be correct as everyone else is doing it.

Now… you could stand on principle that you think it is singular (why on earth would GW let someone mass modify all their guns??) OR you could just join them as, let’s face it, they probably won’t change and you’d only be putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Honestly, I think it would be a little OP having x2 las sub carbines on an archeotek with that skill applied to both weapons. That would be 4 rapid fire dice if firing both - for a starting gang as well

 

[MusingWarboss]

Honestly, I think it would be a little OP having x2 las sub carbines on an archeotek with that skill applied to both weapons. That would be 4 rapid fire dice if firing both - for a starting gang as well

Yeah, probably. Which is why I think it’s for one weapon only.

 

[Xisor_of_Karak_Izor]

I think it hinges on the any, as written. (It's hard to tell if they mean only one or not.) But mix it with: a choice.

The nature of the skill is that you drop Plentiful and gain something else. If they meant "every, that you want", they could have made that clearer. Similarly, if they intended it to be only one weapon, they could have been clearer about that. E.g. "Any one weapon" rather than any one.

Strictly as written, I think it's broad enough to apply to as many as they'd like/have available. But it's not without ambiguity. But it does feel it's closer to the wording of "unambiguously many" rather than "unambiguously only one", if that makes sense?

It makes sense - to me - that the *detailed explanation* refers to only one, but that doesn't undo the expansiveness of the "any". At least not by my reading!

 

[Lunarcruiser]

The skill sounds fun, but I have to ask, does the skill just apply to a single weapon or both if you're carrying two?

The answer is a players choice of none one, both or three/four with a Suspensor Harness.

Bear in mind that this comes from the House of Artifice Rulebook and the skill description describes the mechanics of the rule in question.

2. Gadgeteer​

(This is the name of the skill)

If this fighter is in the starting crew, prior to the first turn, they may modify the Weapon Traits of any weapon they carry that has the Plentiful trait.

So at prior to the first turn when on the starting crew a fighter "may" modify (may gives the choice weather or not too) "any weapon". In UK English grammar, the original language in this case, the principle part of a sentence paragraph or clause comes first as you read it.
The word "may" comes before "any" in the clause so the choice of weapon is the primary here.
Given you have made a choice that applies to "any" weapon that has Plentiful the next part of the mechanics is applied. The choice "may" could be not at all or 1-4 given that the word "any" comes next. If the wording was "they may modify the Weapon's Weapon Traits of a Single Weapon that they carry that has the Plentiful Trait" then that would state that it applies to a single weapon.
It doesn't.
In addition it says "the Weapon Traits if any weapon that the fighter carries that has the Plentiful Trait". Traits is plural here as it then goes on to cite "Plentiful" as the single modifiable trait. As you modify one Trait with this the plural use must apply to the "any weapon" part of the clause as that is the only part of the rest of the clause that can have plurality applied to it.

The rule mechanism then goes on to detail what you replace Plentiful with and for how long including adding Rapid Fire to rapid fire weapons

"If they do so, until the end of the battle the weapon loses the Plentiful trait and gains one of the following, as chosen by the controlling player: Knockback, Pulverise, Rending or Shock. Alternatively, a Plentiful weapon with the Rapid Fire (X) trait can add one to the X value. E.g., a Rapid Fire (1) would become Rapid Fire (2).

Given the mechanics after the choice "may" are applied to individual weapons it treats each weapon picked as unique so you could apply different Traits to different weapons in the same fighter as well. A Rending Las subcarbine and a Rapid Fire 2 one can do a lot of work mowing down gangers.
So the player gets the choice to apply the skill at all to any qualified weapons the want or not and the also get the in what Traits they apply.

 

[Ben_S]

In addition it says "the Weapon Traits if any weapon that the fighter carries that has the Plentiful Trait". Traits is plural here as it then goes on to cite "Plentiful" as the single modifiable trait. As you modify one Trait with this the plural use must apply to the "any weapon" part of the clause as that is the only part of the rest of the clause that can have plurality applied to it.

I'm not taking any position on the question here. But I'm not persuaded by this reasoning.

A single weapon can have multiple weapon traits. This plural seems perfectly appropriate, even if the rule only affected a single weapon.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

A single weapon can have multiple weapon traits. This plural seems perfectly appropriate, even if the rule only affected a single weapon.

Weapons may have multiple traits true. However this skill only affects the single trait of Plentiful explicitly not any other traits so the plurality is not attached to the Traits part.