I would greatly appreciate any proofreading of the one page rules reference PDF I've added to the OP, as it is the bread and butter for anyone trying to give the rules a quick evaluation
Gang Showdown - a complete rule overhaul for the modern Necromunda
- Thread starter JawRippa
- Start date
Over a few playtest campaigns I've been noticing problems with current Close Combat in Gang Showdown: players found it rather unintuitive how a critical hit would only be good for Defending and how Striking with it dealt no additional effect. So here goes (alongside the improved duel example).
I agree there are a few issues with current necromunda that lead to rule-bloat (and power creep)
i was thinking about the meta/economy of the current necromunda vs mordheim, oldmunda, etc...
-current munda is extremely competitive, equipment based (vs skill based), losses stack up, wins can get you 'way' ahead of other gangs.
the lore defends this as gangs fighting over limited territories, but it still feels larger scale compared to mordheim.
The world is also remarkably empty (not lived in) when battles occur.
-current munda is based on each gang having it's own winning 'strategies' / strengths / scenarios / while other games
introduce more random encounters, random dangers, even optional rules for falling over while wading through sewage...
It's more random... and the story develops as you don't have control over the terrain, random events, the er... between battle fase
While I like the writing/design/identity of the gangs gang, you will be shoehorned in one game experience per gang,
making it more about living out the presented game strategy/fantasy: out manipulate (delaque), out toughen (goliath), outshoot (squat)...
and less about a bunch of dudes dealing with a somewhat more chaotic, uncontrollable hive.
-I see the core difference as being the writing based on each gang & their power fantasies and less about the game world.
would gangs not travel through decrepit hellscapes, fighting off wildlife or servitors, scavenge and sell whatever they can find to keep their guns loaded?
would plasma cannons and multimeltas really be a go to, when a dozen gangers look to upgun? Would battlefields not include claustrophobic tunnels,
venice style sewage systems, junkyards, mushroom filled domes or overcrowded slums?
I don't really have an idea what a rebalance of 'gang identity' could look like in a more randomized setting, but some parts could get redesigned easier;
-create the played experience around a journey in a distinct setting (necromunda apocrypha)
-flesh this journey & setting further out with a scavenging run including random events & dangers 'beating the power leveling down a bit'
use this scavenging as a way to replace territories
-how do gangs move around down there? walking with a bunch of hangers on? a raft? do they have a fixed basecamp when they're in a zone they're looting?
Where do they trade?
i was thinking about the meta/economy of the current necromunda vs mordheim, oldmunda, etc...
-current munda is extremely competitive, equipment based (vs skill based), losses stack up, wins can get you 'way' ahead of other gangs.
the lore defends this as gangs fighting over limited territories, but it still feels larger scale compared to mordheim.
The world is also remarkably empty (not lived in) when battles occur.
-current munda is based on each gang having it's own winning 'strategies' / strengths / scenarios / while other games
introduce more random encounters, random dangers, even optional rules for falling over while wading through sewage...
It's more random... and the story develops as you don't have control over the terrain, random events, the er... between battle fase
While I like the writing/design/identity of the gangs gang, you will be shoehorned in one game experience per gang,
making it more about living out the presented game strategy/fantasy: out manipulate (delaque), out toughen (goliath), outshoot (squat)...
and less about a bunch of dudes dealing with a somewhat more chaotic, uncontrollable hive.
-I see the core difference as being the writing based on each gang & their power fantasies and less about the game world.
would gangs not travel through decrepit hellscapes, fighting off wildlife or servitors, scavenge and sell whatever they can find to keep their guns loaded?
would plasma cannons and multimeltas really be a go to, when a dozen gangers look to upgun? Would battlefields not include claustrophobic tunnels,
venice style sewage systems, junkyards, mushroom filled domes or overcrowded slums?
I don't really have an idea what a rebalance of 'gang identity' could look like in a more randomized setting, but some parts could get redesigned easier;
-create the played experience around a journey in a distinct setting (necromunda apocrypha)
-flesh this journey & setting further out with a scavenging run including random events & dangers 'beating the power leveling down a bit'
use this scavenging as a way to replace territories
-how do gangs move around down there? walking with a bunch of hangers on? a raft? do they have a fixed basecamp when they're in a zone they're looting?
Where do they trade?
@Hobo86
I think that the main issue of the modern Necromunda is that it is overbloated in some aspects while being suprisingly shallow at times. Probably the biggest offender are the mental stats, where CL is the king while everything else is extremely situational. This is a no-go for an RPG-lite skirmish.
I also 100% agree on gang's styles of fighting being very restrictive, I've tried addressing that by removing weapon discounts and allowing all common weapons from the start. There should be no reason why a goliath ganger can't use a lasgun.
Personally I think that making a basic, less bloated and more streamlined game is the way to go. Make a solid base (fun skirmish, gradual campaign development without too much bookkeepng) and the players will be able to build on top of that whatever narrative stuff / campaign variants or extra rules they prefer.
I think that the main issue of the modern Necromunda is that it is overbloated in some aspects while being suprisingly shallow at times. Probably the biggest offender are the mental stats, where CL is the king while everything else is extremely situational. This is a no-go for an RPG-lite skirmish.
I also 100% agree on gang's styles of fighting being very restrictive, I've tried addressing that by removing weapon discounts and allowing all common weapons from the start. There should be no reason why a goliath ganger can't use a lasgun.
Personally I think that making a basic, less bloated and more streamlined game is the way to go. Make a solid base (fun skirmish, gradual campaign development without too much bookkeepng) and the players will be able to build on top of that whatever narrative stuff / campaign variants or extra rules they prefer.
that would create a game where players can more easily create their own gangrules at the cost of the specific gangstyles
(like mordheim, this would fix a lot of issues)
I think the economy & the potential for powercreep are the biggest issues*.
each release the potential for powercreep er... creeps up. mental stats factor into that for some gangs (cgc masks, psychic powers, photon flash, ...)
but fixing the mental stats would not 'fix' the gangs dependent of other mechanics (goliath, van saar, ...)
* limit the number of brutes, heavy weapons, special type weapons, specialist champions, ...
(like mordheim, this would fix a lot of issues)
I think the economy & the potential for powercreep are the biggest issues*.
each release the potential for powercreep er... creeps up. mental stats factor into that for some gangs (cgc masks, psychic powers, photon flash, ...)
but fixing the mental stats would not 'fix' the gangs dependent of other mechanics (goliath, van saar, ...)
* limit the number of brutes, heavy weapons, special type weapons, specialist champions, ...
That's pretty much what I've done, check the Mega in the OP. 3 champions max per gang (all gangs), 2 specialists, no more than 1 brute and 1 psyker to avoid rule bloat.
The economy was also reworked so gangs would develop slower, as well as having an option to reform a gang which took heavy losses so it does not drop out of the campaign entirely (basically you spend reputation to restore your gang to the starting rating, while keeping all experienced gangers). Also there is a functional Giant killer rule in the campaign section, as well as Equalizer to make each game a bit more fair.
Works very well in practice, as an arbitrator does not have to babysit gangs which keep losing and have entered a death spiral.
I disagree on this, once we've introduced a use for LD and WIL, I've started feeling the downsides of bad mental stats as a goliath main.
Your gang is about to bottle out, and your leader has already used his LD test? (in Gang Showdown you can prevent bottling only once per game with each model)
Or maybe you need to shoot at a heavy bolter champion hidden behind a juve and pass a WIL check?
In such situations rolling an 8+ on 2D6 does feel like a pain.
Last edited:
I'll read through your rules/main in the OP when I got some time.
thank you for your reply
I have a question about how Knockback works with these close combat rules.
It says it happens when the knockback weapon hits the fighter (if the hit roll is equal to or above the target's strength). For close combat does that mean it resolves right after the attack dice are rolled, or when you 'strike' with a knockback weapon, or do you wait until you resolve the hits?
It resolving when you strike seems like the most interesting answer to me, but interrupting the duel like that might be a problem.
I'm really enjoying reading through these rules. The custom leaders seem like a really elegant way to let players personalize things if they have an idea for something different.
It says it happens when the knockback weapon hits the fighter (if the hit roll is equal to or above the target's strength). For close combat does that mean it resolves right after the attack dice are rolled, or when you 'strike' with a knockback weapon, or do you wait until you resolve the hits?
It resolving when you strike seems like the most interesting answer to me, but interrupting the duel like that might be a problem.
I'm really enjoying reading through these rules. The custom leaders seem like a really elegant way to let players personalize things if they have an idea for something different.
Hello! The knockback is supposed to be resolved after the duel ends and all Strikes are scored, so the defender and the attacker can both be knocked away from each other simultaneously; otherwise the knockback would be pretty insane, if it could interrupt a duel. It is not clearly written though, so I'll make sure to fix that. Thanks!
I'm still working on the project, but I have even less time than usual due to the workload. Hopefully I'll be able to use new year's holidays to full extent, or maybe find some free time before that to properly update the english version.
Last edited:
Hello! I was on a vacation, so I've missed your question. We've discarded Entangle and Disarm traits as being too weird for the duel.
If I were to implement them, I'd change them to:
Entangle: If a crit is scored with this weapon, choose one successful hit roll made by an opponent during this Fight; count its result as being worse by 2. An Entangle weapon crit can't turn a natural crit into a normal hit; it remains a crit as long as the hit roll is successful.
Disarm: If a crit is scored with this weapon, choose one successful hit roll made by an opponent during this Fight; it uses an unarmed attack profile instead of the picked opponent's weapon profile.
Similar threads
