Gang tactics cards

[Ironside83]

In the campaign setting, I wonder if there would be benefit to limiting the frequency in which a gang can take specific cards?

Specifics would depend on what works for each playing group, but the rule could be as simple as if you took cardX for your last game, it gets removed from the deck of available cards for the next game. Alternatively, if you find yourself playing lots of games per cycle and really want players to mix up tactics you could institute a rule that limits each card to one use per turfwar cycle.

 

[Kairae]

In the campaign setting, I wonder if there would be benefit to limiting the frequency in which a gang can take specific cards?

Specifics would depend on what works for each playing group, but the rule could be as simple as if you took cardX for your last game, it gets removed from the deck of available cards for the next game. Alternatively, if you find yourself playing lots of games per cycle and really want players to mix up tactics you could institute a rule that limits each card to one use per turfwar cycle.

Bans. Each player can Ban two cards. There's a couple of stand-out cards and it gets more varied after that.

Also a lot of the games have random cards not selected.

 

[Ironside83]

Bans. Each player can Ban two cards. There's a couple of stand-out cards and it gets more varied after that.

Also a lot of the games have random cards not selected.

The only issue I have with outright bans is that it allows the opponent to dictate the style of game you play with your own models. I would rather a shooty gang actually anticipate 'click. They should make provision for its appearance.

The 'standout' cards are unfortunately the most interesting ones, and as more gangs get released, the pool of standout cards will inevitably increase. Banning two cards soon won't be enough. It also means that you have to 'know' all the cards available to a faction in order to know which ones to ban.

 

[ntw3001]

Is there any counterplay to Click? It's not far different from being a ban itself. What can you do to accommodate it apart from not using powerful weapons?

 

[Ironside83]

Is there any counterplay to Click? It's not far different from being a ban itself. What can you do to accommodate it apart from not using powerful weapons?

You could take more than one powerful weapon?... also, I havnt got the book or cards on me, can an ammo cache be used to counter the 'click effect.

 

[MakaroniFresser]

Is there any counterplay to Click? It's not far different from being a ban itself. What can you do to accommodate it apart from not using powerful weapons?

Proper Preparation from the Escher box moves all weapon ammo on a single fighter down a rarity level. Scarce becomes normal, normal becomes Plentiful.

I'm sure there's disagreements whether Lucky Find can be used after ...Click. Personally I would allow it.

 

[Thorgor]

I'm sure there's disagreements whether Lucky Find can be used after ...Click

Why would there be? ...Click makes the weapon go OoA after an attack, and Lucky find lets you reload it for one action the next time the fighter is activated (functionnaly the same as making it Plentiful that turn.)
The clicked player must still spend an action to reload though, so the clicking player is still left at an advantage if both cards are played.

 

[Ev1LHypn0tist]

In my campaign I have ruled there is no choosing of tactics card, they must be taken randomly. As has been discussed, there is obviously go-to cards people will always want to take, which leaves lots that will never see the light of day in many scenarios. I have said that if their card specifically has a use in Zone Mortalis e.g. concerning pit traps/doors/controls, etc. and they are playing Sector Mechanicus, then they can discard it and take another random, and vice versa. We are still in cycle 1 so we will see how that develops.

 

[enyoss]

I’ve been toying with the following compromise for selecting tactics cards.

Apologies for the caps and Q/A style - just copy and pasted from the notes section of my phone (aka my beloved brain dump )

Q3: How do Tactics Cards work.
A: Tactics cards can be selected from those available in the base game along with any complete sets of gang specific packs in the following way

1) BUILDING A MASTER DECK. Each player makes a master deck of tactics cards as follows
— Mandatory: take a complete set of 10 generic gang tactics cards from the base game
— Optional: take complete sets of generic gang tactics cards from any supplement decks
— Optional: take a complete set of your house gang tactics cards from any base game or supplement decks


2) BUILDING A GAME DECK. Each player makes a game deck of 20 tactics cards as follows
— choose 10 cards from your master deck
— select 10 random cards from your master deck

The contents of each player’s master or game deck is open to all players.

3) AT THE START OF THE PRE-GAME SEQUENCE. Players may either retain their existing game deck or opt to rebuild it (once!) following steps (1)-(2) above.

4) During a game ALL CARDS ARE SELECTED AT RANDOM from the player’s game deck.


E.g.

Herbert has a Goliath Gang. It’s the pre-game phase of his first game.

He builds a master deck by taking a set of 10 generic gang cards from the base game, all 12 Goliath house gang cards, and all 10 generic house cards from both the Escher and Orlock Tactics cards supplement, giving him a master deck of 42 cards.

He picks his 10 favourite cards from this master deck, then selects 10 more at random from the remaining 32 cards.

Herbert now has a game deck of 20 cards.

He looks at them to see what he ended up getting from the random selection. His opponent also takes a look.

Herbert then shuffles his game deck and draws at random from it during the game.

Herbert doesnt like his game deck so much - it has both frag and melta trap in it - so in the pre-game sequence of his second game he redraws a new game deck following step (2). This new game deck is much better, so Herbert doesn’t bother rebuilding it for his third and fourth games today.

Herbert plans on buying the Van saar card supplement next week before his next game, so in his next pre-game sequence he’ll redo steps (1)-(2) to rebuild both master and game decks.

 

[enyoss]

Fwiw my main motivations above were:

- keep it simple. It’s just two steps done once per campaign for those who can’t be arsed rebuilding

- anyone who doesn’t want to lug millions of tactics cards around can just bring 20 to each game

- anyone who doesn’t mind lugging millions of tactics cards around can use them all every game by rebuilding their deck

- adds a random element while giving players some element of control

- limits cherry picking by including whole sets of cards from supplements

- for those who don’t like the DLC model they can just use the base game cards like normal

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

I love those rules and I'm going to use them. Question, how does someone make a 20 card deck if they only have the core set? Your rules seem to imply everyone needs to buy at least 1 pack, which most of my players have not...

 

[MakaroniFresser]

Why would there be? ...Click makes the weapon go OoA after an attack, and Lucky find lets you reload it for one action the next time the fighter is activated (functionnaly the same as making it Plentiful that turn.)

RAW says when a Scarce weapon goes out of ammo, it may not be used again in that battle. One could interpret that clause to mean you can't use the weapon again, even if reloaded somehow (like Lucky Find).

 

[Stoof]

It may not be used again in that battle because you have no ammo for it, but what a stroke of fortune, with Lucky Find you just found some ammo

 

[Thorgor]

RAW says when a Scarce weapon goes out of ammo, it may not be used again in that battle. One could interpret that clause to mean you can't use the weapon again, even if reloaded somehow (like Lucky Find).

Oh, sorry, I didn't get it was in the context of Scarce. I agree it's debatable then.
I guess RAI depends on how one interpets Scarce. If, as its name implies, it represents ammo scarcity, then a lucky find should be able to bypass it (but then again, the same could be said about Limited, and I'm pretty sure Lucky find doesn't work for Limited ammo), but if it represents the weapon being too complex to be reloaded in the heat of battle, RAW would make sense.

 

[ntw3001]

This isn't the kind of game where gradations of the same concept are termed in sensible ways. I remembered 'down' and 'out' after one reading; not so hot on whether a Serious Injury reault causes a Lasting Injury or which actions are Simple or Basic. I'm sure Scarce refere to the scarcity of ammunition, and Limited refers to the limited *lack* of complexity in maintaining the weapon.

Nah, I looked at the rulebook. Failing an ammo roll with a Limited weapon represents running out of that ammo. Makes sense, since it applies to special ammo and grenades. What, that grenade was too complex to throw so you can't throw this one you just found? I saw you throw a bunch already!

 

[Thorgor]

Limited ammo is removed from the fighter's card when the weapon runs Out of Ammo. There is nothing left for a Lucky find to replenish.

Scarce, on the other hand, simply states that the weapon "cannot be reloaded" and "cannot be used again during the battle." Even if we dismiss the latter as a clarification of the former (as I think we should), will Lucky find succeed in reloading a weapon that cannot be reloaded? Since the reason given is that the weapon ran out of ammo, I'd lean towards "yes" for RAI, but RAW it's a "no" for me.
Grenade should probably be treated the same way.

 

[Vegeta365]

It may not be used again in that battle because you have no ammo for it, but what a stroke of fortune, with Lucky Find you just found some ammo

Sarcasm noted and me being late to the party catching up on this thread meant you beat me to what I was about to type once caught up. Thumbs up from me and clearly makes sense regardless of how some will say ‘rules as written’. Lucky for me I’m always in charge of our campaigns lol.

 

[enyoss]

I love those rules and I'm going to use them. Question, how does someone make a 20 card deck if they only have the core set? Your rules seem to imply everyone needs to buy at least 1 pack, which most of my players have not...

If that happened then they’d pick ten cards which would be the core set, and have nothing left to randomise from.

But yeah, should probably say that.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Or if Escher or Goliath, just take the 14 in the core set. That's what I'm doing for my gang.

 

[enyoss]

Or if Escher or Goliath, just take the 14 in the core set. That's what I'm doing for my gang.

Yep, exactly. When you just get down to the core game card sets it’s really just “take everything”.