General Necromunda 2017 Discussion

Discussion in 'Tabletop Games' started by Malo, Nov 25, 2017.

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  1. McTavish

    McTavish Juve

    Something that's just occurred to me, will the new houses have rules for both underhive and gangwar?
     
  2. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    @Defiant youre right on both counts, those tactics are effective and they can be super boring. Especially to play against, slogging your way through fire from a static gun line is a punishing experience. The Van Saar player in my current NCE campaign has just figured out that this is the best way to deal with my pit slaves, it was a lot more fun when he tried a bit more manoeuvring over stand and shoot.
     
    TrexPushups likes this.
  3. Kitcar

    Kitcar Gang Champion

    Heeey,,,can you elaborate on that???
     
  4. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    @Ash_Wastes_Traveler I believe the prices in the main rules are intended for all one off games, 2d or 3d, while the gang war ones are meant for campaigns. Who would want to use a pre made gang in a campaign?

    Pretty sure the idea is just that the lower costs allow you to take more interesting stuff in a one off battle where you obviously can’t build your gang up over time.
     
    #224 maxwellrpower, Dec 14, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  5. There is a cost difference, no stat difference, but the cost difference is big enough that it matters.
     
  6. Thorgor

    Thorgor Of The YAQ

    Isn't it what the 1500 credits limit (instead of the usual 1000) is already supposed to achieve?
     
    maxwellrpower likes this.
  7. Underhive; 1500pts and gear and weapons have a low cost, Gang War: 1000pts and gear and weapons have a higer cost.... this makes it seem like the points cost have been swapped.
     
  8. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    @Thorgor yeah, I know. Bit confused as to what exactly they were thinking with a few things in the two books :p Still, I'm fairly confident that using the rulebook gang creation and pricelist for one offs and the GW ones for campaigns is about right.
     
  9. Thorgor

    Thorgor Of The YAQ

    At this point, I'm convinced they were edited by at least 3 different people. Drunk people. Working from different versions of the draft. In 3 different timezones. With no phone. And one of them is a 9 year old.
     
    dabbk, kendoka, Kileeath and 6 others like this.
  10. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    Haha I dunno if it’s as bad as all that but there are some holes for sure!
     
  11. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    I’ve got no problem with the rules being split between books but they don’t seem to have handled it very well at all. It’s the only aspect of the whole thing I’m not happy about, the actual content of the rules (rules as apparently intended anyway) is great, but the method of release is way way messier than it needed to be.
     
  12. Trafalgar Law

    Trafalgar Law Gang Champion

    That sounds like a rather optimistic assessment :)
     
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  13. Thorgor

    Thorgor Of The YAQ

    @maxwellrpower : I don't care that much the rules being split in 2 books and I like most of what is actually understandable, but there are a lot of problems that are simply not acceptable in what is supposed to be a professional product:
    • rules that appear in both books with no other apparent purpose than to artificially increase Gang War page count
    • rules that appear in both books with different text/value and no explanation as to which one you are supposed to use
    • ambiguous rules that should have been spotted by a playtester during their very first game (Charging...)
    • rules that are nowhere to be found (Fear...)
    • rules that flat out make no-sense (Mighty Leap)
    • rules that don't do what they are supposed to do (Toxin, unless it's grossly overpriced)
    • rules that can easily be exploited (Stray Shot)
    • obvious typos and other inconsistencies (is the trait called 'Demolition' (GW) or 'Demolitions' (UH)? Does the boltgun deal 1 or 2 Damage?)
    • alphabetical sorting failure (seriously, take any list (Trait, Skills...) that is supposed to be sorted alphabetically, and at least one of them will be out of order)
    Granted, some of those things are fairly minor, but others simply make the game unplayable without house-rules. I agree that house-rules are sometimes necessary to handle obscure corner cases or when you just don't like the official rules, but something as pivotal as Charging should be crystal clear for everyone on their first reading.
    And what is even worse than the obvious errors we can spot is that it's very possible they are only the visible tip of the iceberg. How are we supposed to trust anything from a book that has so many glaring errors?
     
    #233 Thorgor, Dec 14, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
    dabbk, kendoka, DenzilPz and 6 others like this.
  14. Zangief

    Zangief Juve

    Indeed! It appears to me, that there is no true balancing in the setup of the Prebuild gangs. The Escher have no Shotguns and nothing really what make them better than the Goliath. Its a nice mix from all sources to look cool, but no effectivness in the way they are build.
    what i mean is: lapspistol degger on a ganger vs their Golaths stubgun and axes/hammers is not balanced at all. If Escher just had more daka daka or more CC Weapons, it would be a whole other story!
     
  15. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    @Thorgor well shit, now that you list it all like that it does look pretty bad!
    Here’s hoping they lift their game with the subsequent supplements and hurry up and get an errata/faq out. I’m really hoping someone takes on the massive task of compiling everything into one neat PDF to make it easy for me, I have little patience with messed up rules as I’m really just a painter/modeller at heart, playing the game is just gravy and I don’t need it to cause me no end of headaches! I’ve still not had a chance to play much, still crossing my fingers and hoping all will be well.
     
    MusingWarboss and Gdolkin like this.
  16. maxwellrpower

    maxwellrpower Gang Hero
    Honored Tribesman

    By the way Thorgor, I should mention I’m incredibly grateful to have folks like you around to pick out and fix all the little issues that I would never notice until they were already causing me huge problems! So cheers for that (y)
     
    kendoka, ThreeDice, Malo and 3 others like this.
  17. FerociousBeast

    FerociousBeast Gang Champion
    Honored Tribesman

    Might be a need for a "Community Edition" rather sooner in the game's lifecycle than we are used to... :p
     
    dabbk and timdp like this.
  18. Benoksen

    Benoksen Ganger

    Got into the old Munda sometime in the early 2000s. A superb game when handled right, but all the fallacies, misspellings and locical inconsequenses made it a highly latent nightmare when playing with hardcore "by the book" players, as the rules pretty much allway could be bent and interpreted in any wanted direction. Must say I find it strange that a company of GW's size keep coming with publications littered with amateur mistakes all over. However the new gamemechanics seem very sound, and the new models are awesome. Also like the Sector Mechanicus terrain. How are the possibilties and prospects for a community edition for the Neomunda-2017? Are there issues that complicates this, as Necromunda now is a commerially available product, whereas the Living Rulebook and Community edition were developments of a shut down game.
     
    dabbk likes this.
  19. MusingWarboss

    MusingWarboss Gang Hero

    It honestly feels like they developed the game and then were commanded to split it into five or six parts to maximise release schedule and profits. Problem is in doing so they’ve copy+pasted bits backwards and forwards and parts have got duplicated, missed out or just plain lost in creating the thing.

    I’m probably in the minority in this next idea but (here goes) I think it would have been better if they hadn’t bothered putting rules in Underhives book for creating Goliath and Escher gangs using a completely different points system AND including prebuilt gang cards which don’t seem to tally with it. THEN releasing another book with whole new gang creation lists and telling you to ignore the one in the main game.

    Three systems for playing the gangs is daft. Underhive should have had the prebuilt cards only. *shock* yep, I said it. Because much like Space Crusade (as an example) you could have had built balanced gangs for ZM augmented with the tactic cards. It would be simple to say that the premade are for Underhive only.

    Then you could have sold Gang War as the way to create your own unique forces usable in both ZM mode or full 3D. Future gangs could have had premade cards either in White Dwarf or in the card packs. So people who wanted a quick boardgame like bash could do that and everyone else could buy Gang War.

    The models could have been usable either way. Now though you have a horrible mix which means there will be those who have built the “premade” gang and want to continue with them. Those who have built a Underhive listed gang and those who built a Gang War one, they can’t intermix at a store. They can use the models but all the other values are muddled up. So you have to have an administration session to sort that out (not everyone will have Gang War but might want to join in with their Underhive Gang for example).

    Not to mention all the other rules that are... not exactly definitive as Thorgor mentions.
     
    Ben_S, cronevald, TopsyKretts and 6 others like this.
  20. Gdolkin

    Gdolkin Gang Champion

    On the subject of proofreading but off on a tangent: I'm reading Devastation of Baal and goddamnit, it describes Castellan Zargo of the Angels Encarmine as wearing halved black and red power armour and his chapter badge as a winged skull, and specifically mentions that he is helmed when most others present aren't. That's the Angels Sanguine ffs. 2nd Founding, 25-year-old background, what the smeg man.. Also there is a ship of the Angels Excelsis that can't decide whether it's the Staff of Light or Staff of Life. It really boils my piss..
     
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