N17 Genestealer Cult Gang Updated

Ml2sjw

Gang Hero
Nov 25, 2017
885
1,238
113
United kingdom
I've heard these "confirmations" before, like bionics supposed to be cheaper than level-ups.

I mean, they retract the profiles for the sword and whip, but had no problems adding additional complexity to bionics for the least important injuries.

If Blood Bowl is anything to measure from, there's currently almost 90 star players and 140 special play cards. Several themes are re-occurring like Weather Mage, which is found as a card, an even and a limited winter bowl inducement. All with different rules, but basically doing the same thing.

And talk about complexity, precognition is a 3+ invulnerable save against non-blast non-template hits. Compare that to the second benefit:

Additionally, a Familiar may avoid being caught by a Blast or Flame template. If a Familiar is caught under a Blast marker or Flame template, the attacker should roll a D6. On a 4-6, the Familiar is hit by the attack. On a -13, the Familiar is able to dodge clear of the area of the attack. Leave the model where it is and assume that it has scuttled around to avoid the attack and returned to where it was.​

Alternatively, you could summarize it like this:

4+ invulnerable save when hit by blast and template.
And then people would be pulling apart the rules talking about if a model was "hit" by a template and asking if it needs to dodge outside of the template I guarantee!
 

Gunkaiser

Gang Champion
May 24, 2017
273
257
73
Corvallis, Oregon
Was definitely thinking about that... the heavies in the Neophyte box are really the same body/head type as what comes in the Acolyte Hybrid box so it makes perfect sense and lines up well with the weapon restrictions in the other gangs.
 
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Zae55

Ganger
Oct 16, 2016
105
122
43
Sydney
No, I meant back in the old days, you would buy gangers to earn money. Juves would not earn you any money, but instead be a long-term investment to eventually level up to be gangers with better stats/skills.
This is the part that bugs me about N17. Juves should be like in the old days (insert whistling old timer sounds) where they were an investment if you took the time to develop them and they survived their meat shield duties then they became better than your other units if they were lucky. Nowadays i dont see anyone using them in our groups except for me when playing Escher (and i basically use them as coup de grace finishers)

I like the new models. Still would have liked to see speedy acolytes for that not quite a genestealer feel. Third arm changes are good as it doesn't seem to restrict them using items as far as my interpretation went...
 
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almic85

Gang Hero
Oct 30, 2014
804
1,286
113
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
I've heard these "confirmations" before, like bionics supposed to be cheaper than level-ups.

I mean, they retract the profiles for the sword and whip, but had no problems adding additional complexity to bionics for the least important injuries.

If Blood Bowl is anything to measure from, there's currently almost 90 star players and 140 special play cards. Several themes are re-occurring like Weather Mage, which is found as a card, an even and a limited winter bowl inducement. All with different rules, but basically doing the same thing.

And talk about complexity, precognition is a 3+ invulnerable save against non-blast non-template hits. Compare that to the second benefit:

Additionally, a Familiar may avoid being caught by a Blast or Flame template. If a Familiar is caught under a Blast marker or Flame template, the attacker should roll a D6. On a 4-6, the Familiar is hit by the attack. On a -13, the Familiar is able to dodge clear of the area of the attack. Leave the model where it is and assume that it has scuttled around to avoid the attack and returned to where it was.​

Alternatively, you could summarize it like this:

4+ invulnerable save when hit by blast and template.
Topsykretts, FYI a 4+ invulnerable save and a 4+ to dodge that attack completely are very different. The familiar isn’t even hit by the attack so it isn’t pinned.

Edit: also GW4 changes the rules for advancements and XP costs and clarifies how it benefits juves. On top of this GW4 also fixes the credit cost of BS/WS and Int/WP advancements.
 

N3p3nth3

Fallen Angel
Honored Tribesman
Feb 26, 2018
75
79
38
Helsinki, Suomi
Yes that's definitely a mistake. I guess you would have to merge the good parts from both versions...
Nope, it just means that a guy from the acolyte box is an early generation acolyte or neophyte (or alpha) and a guy from the neophyte box is a late-generation acolyte or neophyte (or adept).

Now the fact that aberrations can take acolyte 2h cws is an actual departure from the norm.
 

Zae55

Ganger
Oct 16, 2016
105
122
43
Sydney
Topsykretts, FYI a 4+ invulnerable save and a 4+ to dodge that attack completely are very different. The familiar isn’t even hit by the attack so it isn’t pinned.

Edit: also GW4 changes the rules for advancements and XP costs and clarifies how it benefits juves. On top of this GW4 also fixes the credit cost of BS/WS and Int/WP advancements.
Good point on the difference berween saves and dodging out of harms way. It was good to see the bs/ws and int/will advancements were correct.

I dont have my book on me but dont juves upgrade after 5 or 6 advancements in the new campaign (or something similar)?
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,819
1,539
138
Kristiansand
Topsykretts, FYI a 4+ invulnerable save and a 4+ to dodge that attack completely are very different. The familiar isn’t even hit by the attack so it isn’t pinned.

Edit: also GW4 changes the rules for advancements and XP costs and clarifies how it benefits juves. On top of this GW4 also fixes the credit cost of BS/WS and Int/WP advancements.
Hmm yes, would need to add a couple of sentences: The model avoids the hit completely. Do not move the model, leave it at its position.
 

DerekDecker

Gang Champion
Apr 1, 2017
265
342
63
The rules for all of the weapons/equipment are not in the pdf. In the White Dwarf version they have rule for the equipment. Cult Icon is exactly the same as Cawdor.
 

almic85

Gang Hero
Oct 30, 2014
804
1,286
113
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
Good point on the difference berween saves and dodging out of harms way. It was good to see the bs/ws and int/will advancements were correct.

I dont have my book on me but dont juves upgrade after 5 or 6 advancements in the new campaign (or something similar)?
The whole advancement rule got a revamp in GW4.

It now only adds 2 extra xp for advancing the same stat a second time, so you can add 1 BS and then 1 WS for 10 xp, where it used ot be 2 additional xp for every advancement after the first and skills don't add any extra xp each time you take them.

In addition juves don't have to pay the 2 xp tax for advancing the same stat more than once and their max stats increase when they become champions.
 

Trafalgar Law

Gang Hero
Mar 14, 2017
683
1,084
98
Chorley, Lancashire, UK
That sounds like a good change. I didn't like the whole 2xp tax thing for every advance, especially as it's already slower to gain xp. Having that only be for duplicate stats sounds much better (I wonder if that was the original intent but just badly written).

Juves still need something though. Maybe a discount on upgrades or something to make them more attractive to take.
 
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TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,819
1,539
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Kristiansand
The whole advancement rule got a revamp in GW4.

It now only adds 2 extra xp for advancing the same stat a second time, so you can add 1 BS and then 1 WS for 10 xp, where it used ot be 2 additional xp for every advancement after the first and skills don't add any extra xp each time you take them.

In addition juves don't have to pay the 2 xp tax for advancing the same stat more than once and their max stats increase when they become champions.
That's bloody brilliant!
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,819
1,539
138
Kristiansand
That sounds like a good change. I didn't like the whole 2xp tax thing for every advance, especially as it's already slower to gain xp. Having that only be for duplicate stats sounds much better (I wonder if that was the original intent but just badly written).

Juves still need something though. Maybe a discount on upgrades or something to make them more attractive to take.
Yeah this is much better and encourages to take different advancements, not just max out on toughness.

Juves need clear rules to be promoted to champions, not using random things like turf war, cycles etc. It worked flawless before, when reaching 21 xp, become ganger. I've played campaign since january and still not reached down-time or showdown. Zero juves promoted!
 

DerekDecker

Gang Champion
Apr 1, 2017
265
342
63
That is why people need a good Abitrator to manage the campaign, an endless Turf War need houserule to promote Juve. A Cycle should only last a week so people can collect their turf money lol.
 

Ben_S

Hive Guilder
Honored Tribesman
Jul 26, 2015
4,170
6,404
158
Southampton, UK
FYI a 4+ invulnerable save and a 4+ to dodge that attack completely are very different. The familiar isn’t even hit by the attack so it isn’t pinned.
Do you still get pinned if you pass an invulnerable save now?

It used to be (i.e. pre-N17) that invulnerable saves were basically for things like forcefields or dodging, so you weren't in fact really hit or pinned. Which means that an invulnerable save would be just the ticket.

Of course, if you are still pinned in N17, then you're right that would be a difference (though the text still seems rather wordy for something as straightforward as a dodge).