N18 Goliath : A few questions for Campaigns

[Kronor]

Hello, I have a few questions about Goliaths :

1. I am REALLY struggling to get my stimmers into CC. Their M4 is really horrible for a champion build to go to CC, with no apparent way to make him go faster. I know that Stim slug stash exists, but it is only for one turn, once per game, and there is a chance to put the stimmer down in top of that...
How do you play them? What loadout are you buying for them? Is there a way to make them move faster? I really want to play them as I love the minis, but I don't see any reason why I should take one over a Forge boss with grenade-launcher right now, which is cheaper and easier to hide behind covers, while dealing better damage at long range.

2. About end game campaign weapons, are grenade launchers and combat shotguns the go-to weapons? What about combi-plasmas or combi-meltas? Heavy bolters?

3. Is there a reason to take a bully over a bruiser (unless you are budget short)? With their VERY limited weapon and gear list, I can't see why you should take one besides using them at meat shields?

 

[mateyboy3000]

1) how much terrain are you using? Not enough terrain is the primary reason melee fighters struggle

2)this is dependant of a few factors such as enemy toughness and armour. If the majority of your opponents are T4 then S5 is sufficient and s6 is largely moot. If the majority are T3 then S6 is huge as you wound on 2's all the time against them. You don't need to invest in high Ap weapons if the enemy gangs are only sporting mesh either. Ap-1 is sufficiently reliable and Ap 2 ignores armour but you need to scale up as your opponents armour does

3) they hit just as well in combat as a ganger so they can be a cheap melee fighter, or you just need a cheap body to make a number or 2 up for activations

 

[Kronor]

Hey, thanks for your reply.

1. Me and my friends are playing on a lot of terrain on a 2*2 (24"x24"), we have a lot of cover, a lot of verticality, doors, rooms, walls, etc...Terrain is not the problem, nor is my resistance to damage, it is my Movment to reach my opponents... 4+D3 is pretty ridiculous for a charge, and my opponents outrun me easily, and as they can see me coming miles away, they have all the time in the world to avoid me. My Toughness + smoke grenades make that I don't die easily, or sometimes not at all, but I don't do anything besides running and trying to get my opponents in CC, so in the end, it is just frustrating and I end up shooting with my assaut grenade launcher, but I can do that with a forge boss who will be cheaper and more effective.
I am pretty sure I am missing something, maybe an equipment or I don't know, that is why I was wondering how people play them, what loadout etc...Usually I play them with assaut grenade launcher + a good CC weapon (chainaxe, serrated,...) + furnace plates but my CC weapon almost never hit the face of a mini through the game...

2. Make sense, the thing is, I have 6 friends to play with, and we all play a different gang (Esher, Delaque, Orlock, Van Saar, Cawdor, Enforcers and me as a Goliath), so I was looking for a sort of "all around" thing that can be at least good against everyone if you know what I mean.

3. That is what I thought, thanks.

 

[mateyboy3000]

If you're playing on a 2x2 there will only be so many places to run and they only move 2" more than you, assuming they're a 5"M fighter. And they're sacrificing any offensive output to run away from you.

My general rule is minimum S4 but aim for S5+ - 1AP and 2D. Traits wise depending on your circumstances you can change the above to get a specific trait

 

[Kronor]

In a straight line, if we both start just near each other, yes it is only 2" (which is still enough to outrun me), but with all the verticality of the table, the deployment, etc,if they are 1 floor above for example, I just really struggle to reach them, but maybe the problem is me, I don't know. When we play a multiplayer game, that is ok because there is so many minis that they can't all escape, but in a situation of 1v1, I find it very hard to catch anyone with a M4+D3.

Ok, thank you for the weapons !

 

[mateyboy3000]

One of my favourites is to pop stim sluggs just before you charge, it gets you the extra 2" move as well as pushing you up what I call a 'strength bracket' (able to wound the next toughness up on 2's) and making you insanely tough to the reaction (assuming you roll like trash) and any retaliatory fire to the murder of a friend at point blank range

 

[Kronor]

Well yes, apparently it is the only way to boost a stimmer move, so I will try that. Thanks for the advices !

 

[MrAndersson]

1. Getting into melee is definitely a problem in Necromunda. Especially with a move of 4". I assume you have Nerves of steel on him (otherwise you are just asking to get pinned and never do anything).
And yes, a forge boss with a grenade launcher is almost always better.

2. Grenade launchers are awesome. Combat shotguns are kind of meh (too short range and no AP). Some combi weapons can be useful, but most of the time you are better off with a grenade launcher (which is a recurring theme in this game, it is the answer to almost everything). Heavy bolters are really destructive, probably the highest damage output of any weapon in the game, although it will start to drop off when your opponents start reaching toughness 5 and above.

 

[Kronor]

Hey,

1. Yes, of course I have Nerve of steel on them. Just notices that there is a tactic card (Thunderous charge) that double my M instead of adding D3 for one charge, but as in many scenarios you pick your tactics cards at random, I can't rely on this. So yeah, a forge boss seems better...I will still play one stimmer though, as I love the mini.

2. I think I will need to invest in some Firestorm ammo (S5 AP-1, Blaze) from the trading post for the combat shotgun if I want them to stay revelant end game, because as you just said, the lack of AP hurts. I don't really like combi weapons because of the Combi rule, I have a tendancy to always fail my ammo check so . Grenade launcher for the win though.

 

[Heart of Storm]

Use grenade launchers firing frag or other blast type weapons to force pins on people your melee boys are trying to charge down - slows down their ability to move away a treat and helps keep the heat off your brawlers.

Aside from that I find Goliath is more of a slow, inexorable reduction of the space the enemy has to move, just keep chasing em down and closing their escape routes, you'll get em eventually, and if they're running from you they're not putting down nearly enough firepower to beat you

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Hello, I have a few questions about Goliaths :

1. I am REALLY struggling to get my stimmers into CC. Their M4 is really horrible for a champion build to go to CC, with no apparent way to make him go faster. I know that Stim slug stash exists, but it is only for one turn, once per game, and there is a chance to put the stimmer down in top of that...
How do you play them? What loadout are you buying for them? Is there a way to make them move faster? I really want to play them as I love the minis, but I don't see any reason why I should take one over a Forge boss with grenade-launcher right now, which is cheaper and easier to hide behind covers, while dealing better damage at long range.

2. About end game campaign weapons, are grenade launchers and combat shotguns the go-to weapons? What about combi-plasmas or combi-meltas? Heavy bolters?

3. Is there a reason to take a bully over a bruiser (unless you are budget short)? With their VERY limited weapon and gear list, I can't see why you should take one besides using them at meat shields?

1) The Stims stash is the most readily available option particularly if you are wedded to the admittedly super cool models. If not with the Ash wastes and Book of the Outlands The 50 credit Bike option is a good way to gain more speed ( move value 8") For those lamenting the Mounted Pinning rules requiring Initiative tests when hit and to pick it up and go It makes sense. As a Actual biker you try picking up a heavy bike after coming off at speed quickly...
A good way of getting your stimmer into combat is target dilution. Give your opponent another melee threat to counter. if you manage to field a 'Zerker or a souped up Tyrant with a entourage of burly bodyguards, and a Stimmer this forces your opponent to concentrate on gunning down on or the other Sure one or more of the beat sticks will get shot up but the other has a chance of getting through.
2) Plasma and Melta rule. Grenade Launchers are also super good get smoke grenades for them for providing cover. Your Move of 4" will be a major problem however. Getting to a good position will take time and the Unwieldy rule of most heavy weapons is not your friend. I favour Special weapons over Heavies in pretty much all my gangs moving and shooting or shooting and moving is not a option that I can give up.
With your small, crowded, board range shout rarely be an issue either so the shorter range of special weapons compared to their heavy equivalents is less of a problem.
3) Bullies have the same Weapon skill as Bruisers so hit in combat as often and have the same toughness and wounds as well so a Bully can hit just as hard with their basic combat weapons. What they lack is the better combat weapons but being on the bad end of a mass bully charge from your Tyrants Group Activation is not to be ignored. They also learn faster as well so have less effort in beefing up their worse stats.
They are lackluster like all juves compared to their gangers but cheap is cheap.
As Meat shields however they are probable the best Meat shields out of all the House Gangs. Cawdor, Delaque, Orlock, and Van Saar juves just can't take significant hits or hit back very hard compared to their Ganger brethren, while Escher Little Sisters can hit back they are the glass cannons in the Glass cannon Gang. Toughness 4 Meat shields are simple more robust.

 

[Maliakh]

Other option is the Overseer skill route. Give it to your leader (or pay creds to give it to a champ) and combined with Stims and you can charge 18´´ +1d3, those cowards aren't that fast now.

But it´s not a popular route, I would comment it with the game group if they are ok with this.

 

[Kronor]

Use grenade launchers firing frag or other blast type weapons to force pins on people your melee boys are trying to charge down - slows down their ability to move away a treat and helps keep the heat off your brawlers.

Aside from that I find Goliath is more of a slow, inexorable reduction of the space the enemy has to move, just keep chasing em down and closing their escape routes, you'll get em eventually, and if they're running from you they're not putting down nearly enough firepower to beat you

Make sense, thank you.

1) The Stims stash is the most readily available option particularly if you are wedded to the admittedly super cool models. If not with the Ash wastes and Book of the Outlands The 50 credit Bike option is a good way to gain more speed ( move value 8") For those lamenting the Mounted Pinning rules requiring Initiative tests when hit and to pick it up and go It makes sense. As a Actual biker you try picking up a heavy bike after coming off at speed quickly...
A good way of getting your stimmer into combat is target dilution. Give your opponent another melee threat to counter. if you manage to field a 'Zerker or a souped up Tyrant with a entourage of burly bodyguards, and a Stimmer this forces your opponent to concentrate on gunning down on or the other Sure one or more of the beat sticks will get shot up but the other has a chance of getting through.
2) Plasma and Melta rule. Grenade Launchers are also super good get smoke grenades for them for providing cover. Your Move of 4" will be a major problem however. Getting to a good position will take time and the Unwieldy rule of most heavy weapons is not your friend. I favour Special weapons over Heavies in pretty much all my gangs moving and shooting or shooting and moving is not a option that I can give up.
With your small, crowded, board range shout rarely be an issue either so the shorter range of special weapons compared to their heavy equivalents is less of a problem.
3) Bullies have the same Weapon skill as Bruisers so hit in combat as often and have the same toughness and wounds as well so a Bully can hit just as hard with their basic combat weapons. What they lack is the better combat weapons but being on the bad end of a mass bully charge from your Tyrants Group Activation is not to be ignored. They also learn faster as well so have less effort in beefing up their worse stats.
They are lackluster like all juves compared to their gangers but cheap is cheap.
As Meat shields however they are probable the best Meat shields out of all the House Gangs. Cawdor, Delaque, Orlock, and Van Saar juves just can't take significant hits or hit back very hard compared to their Ganger brethren, while Escher Little Sisters can hit back they are the glass cannons in the Glass cannon Gang. Toughness 4 Meat shields are simple more robust.

1. I don't have the outland book right now, and as me and my friends are playing on a 2*2 (24*24), i don't think we will add vehicles anytime soon.
Yes, that is why I was planning to play 2 stimmers, so my opponent will struggle to stop them both. I don't like the zerker though. too expensive for my taste.

2. I prefer special weapons too, or else a heavy weapon with compensator. I like the Tyrant heavy bolter compensator though.

3. Ok, thanks !

 

[Kronor]

Other option is the Overseer skill route. Give it to your leader (or pay creds to give it to a champ) and combined with Stims and you can charge 18´´ +1d3, those cowards aren't that fast now.

But it´s not a popular route, I would comment it with the game group if they are ok with this.

Yes I thought about that, but it makes me sad to put overseer on a Tyrant...

 

[Maliakh]

There is a Genesmith that allow you to take secondary skills as primary. This in a Forge Boss will allow him to take Overseer (expensive thought), leaving the Tyrant free.
You can also put it in a prospect and if survives a few games put him Overseer. I like to think that this prospect is the bossy son of a Tyrant 😅

 

[Kronor]

I REALLY like the idea of the son of the tyrant, I will definitely use that, thanks for the idea !

 

[mateyboy3000]

It's an amazing idea but it's got the downside of requiring 9xp

An alternative (assuming you're using the BM) is to get a mnemonic in load spike and give a juve/prospect overseer that way
It gives the same result faster but requires more cash investment

 

[Galtarr]

Make sense, thank you.


1. I don't have the outland book right now, and as me and my friends are playing on a 2*2 (24*24), i don't think we will add vehicles anytime soon.
Yes, that is why I was planning to play 2 stimmers, so my opponent will struggle to stop them both. I don't like the zerker though. too expensive for my taste.

Grapnel launchers. Moving 12" in your first turn gets you some juicy board control if you're on a relatively small board. Though you still have to overcome the final charge. Remember if you move after your target has activated you can move into 5" range then provided you activate first (There's a tactic card for that).

Personally I have used both tactics cards and the various stims for the actual charge but Grapnel launchers are a serious Goliath tool. Relatively cheap way to mitigate some of the issues with slow movement. Especially on a small board. Also smoke and multiple melee threats to close down avenues.

 

[Kronor]

It's an amazing idea but it's got the downside of requiring 9xp

An alternative (assuming you're using the BM) is to get a mnemonic in load spike and give a juve/prospect overseer that way
It gives the same result faster but requires more cash investment

Good point, thanks !

Grapnel launchers. Moving 12" in your first turn gets you some juicy board control if you're on a relatively small board. Though you still have to overcome the final charge. Remember if you move after your target has activated you can move into 5" range then provided you activate first (There's a tactic card for that).

Personally I have used both tactics cards and the various stims for the actual charge but Grapnel launchers are a serious Goliath tool. Relatively cheap way to mitigate some of the issues with slow movement. Especially on a small board. Also smoke and multiple melee threats to close down avenues.

AH yes, grapnel launchers, how did I forget those, I was using them on my Delaque Nacht gul when I was playing Delaque ! Thanks for the reminder, that may solve my problem !