Goliath Starting Gang Advice

[TenzRackus]

Hi everyone,

We have a campaign starting in the new year so I am in the process of prepping some models to paint. I was wondering if the hive mind could provide some advice and feedback on aearly draft of the starting gang at 1000 credits.

Draft 1
Leader - Fighting Knife, Power Hammer, Grenade Launcher, Stim Slug Stash, Furnace Plates, Inspirational
Champ 1 - Stub Cannon, Brute Cleaver, Fighting Knife, Furnace Plates, Nerves of steel
Champ 2 - Renderizer, Fighting Knife, Stim Slug Stash, Furnace Plates, Bulging biceps
Ganger 1 - Stub gun, Spud Jacker, Frag Grenades, Dumdum rounds, Furnace Plates
Ganger 2 - Stug gun, Spud Jacker, Frag Grenades, Dumdum rounds, Furnace Plates
Ganger 3 - Combat Shotgun, Brute Cleaver, Furnace Plates

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[ten_kage]

Hi, just a couple pf thoughts:
Do you realize that giving Bulging Biceps and a fighting knife to your Renderizer Chambpion you are actually "losing" a renderizer attack?

A part from that, my experience wuth the Goliath tells me that you do really want at least one ranged weapon on each guy. It's very cool to have one of your champions going around like a raving maniac with double close combat weapon... it is less nice when you realize that he is unable to do the damage you expect hm to do becouse your hopponent is faster and/or he keeps you pinned every turn...

Also, I like to have a second GL on one of the Ganger. It gives you more versatility and one more model to worry about to your opponent. MOre than 2 might be overkilling, but 2 is still fair

 

[TenzRackus]

Hey Ten, Thanks for the reply.

As to your point you are correct. I think I wasn't seeing the forest through the trees. I was thinking about the extra attack but forgot they had to be equal. So removing the fighting knife and bulging biceps and maybe replace it with Nerves of Steel? He would get 3 attacks on the charge with the renderizer.

What do you think about dropping Ganger 2 and replacing it with the following:
Ganger - Grenade Launcher, Brute Cleaver, Furnace Plates and changing Ganger 3: remove Brute Cleaver and add fighting knife. (free up points)

Is a boltgun worth taking? (Same cost as GL)

 

[el_guestos]

I'd `probably drop Inspirational on the leader. This works well with gangs with lower cool (Escher) but all your guys have 5/6+ cool) so won't be failing many nerve tests straight out fo the gate.

 

[ten_kage]

I'd `probably drop Inspirational on the leader. This works well with gangs with lower cool (Escher) but all your guys have 5/6+ cool) so won't be failing many nerve tests straight out fo the gate.

Also this... You may find more useful Iron Will

Hey Ten, Thanks for the reply.


What do you think about dropping Ganger 2 and replacing it with the following:
Ganger - Grenade Launcher, Brute Cleaver, Furnace Plates and changing Ganger 3: remove Brute Cleaver and add fighting knife. (free up points)

Is a boltgun worth taking? (Same cost as GL)

I like your changes. As per the boltgun, is a good option, but the GL (when you use the blast) is more forgiving: you may still hit when you miss.
I will prefere a boltgun on a 4th Ganger, later in the campaign

 

[TenzRackus]

Thanks for all the great feed back everyone. Here is the updated list.

Leader - Fighting Knife, Power Hammer, Grenade Launcher, Stim Slug Stash, Furnace Plates, Iron Will
Champ 1 - Stub Cannon, Brute Cleaver, Fighting Knife, Furnace Plates, Nerves of steel
Champ 2 - Renderizer, Stim Slug Stash, Furnace Plates, Nerves of Steel
Ganger 1 - Stub gun, Spud Jacker, Frag Grenades, Dumdum rounds, Furnace Plates
Ganger 2 - Grenade Launcher, Brute Cleaver, Furnace Plates
Ganger 3 - Combat Shotgun, Fighting Knife, Furnace Plates

With this list I have some close combat clout and decent range. I have 3 blast and one template which is a little more forgiving as Ten mentioned. The change to Iron Will for the leader seems more suitable. I was worried about bottle tests but overlooked Iron Will. Nerves of Steel seems to be the best "go to" for the champions to avoid the pinning issue....

What are peoples thoughts on the combat shotgun? I like it for the shredder rounds template. But I am thinking if I am within 4" I am most likely going to charge into melee.

On the previous note of losing an attack with the renderizer, would the same would apply to my leader. Is it better to have 3 attacks with the PH or 4 total attacks (5 on the charge)? On a Stim turn that is a strength 6 attack with the fighting knife. Or do I add the fighting knife to Ganger 1 or 3?

Thanks

 

[el_guestos]

If you're worried about losing an attack you could always look at a sword of some sort so you gain that parry ability...not that anythings very likely to survive a round in combat with that guy but these things do happen and nice to have a defensive option when it does.

 

[el_guestos]

My only issue with iron will is if you're using it things have already gone wrong, personally I prefer to be a bit more offensive and take skills that will prevent me from getting to the point where iron will is used. That's totally personal preference however...

 

[TenzRackus]

My only issue with iron will is if you're using it things have already gone wrong, personally I prefer to be a bit more offensive and take skills that will prevent me from getting to the point where iron will is used. That's totally personal preference however...

I can understand that. My logic was with only 6 dudes, I lose one and then I have to start down the bottle test roll. A bad roll vs toxin could make this happen pretty quick. What would you recommend for a replacement?

 

[TenzRackus]

If you're worried about losing an attack you could always look at a sword of some sort so you gain that parry ability...not that anythings very likely to survive a round in combat with that guy but these things do happen and nice to have a defensive option when it does.

Hmm valid point. As of Gang War 3 I have access to chainswords. I'd have to come up with another 15 creds...Parry and Rending would be pretty sweet.

 

[ten_kage]

Thanks for all the great feed back everyone. Here is the updated list.

What are peoples thoughts on the combat shotgun? I like it for the shredder rounds template. But I am thinking if I am within 4" I am most likely going to charge into melee.

On the previous note of losing an attack with the renderizer, would the same would apply to my leader. Is it better to have 3 attacks with the PH or 4 total attacks (5 on the charge)? On a Stim turn that is a strength 6 attack with the fighting knife. Or do I add the fighting knife to Ganger 1 or 3?

Thanks

The Combat shotgun is a very goon weapon and when you will buy the firestorm ammo it will be excellent.
As per the Leader, you may start like this and later buy him a good pistol or, as @el_guestos suggested a chain sword.

As a general suggestion, it is ok to build your initial gang thinking about future improvement

 

[TenzRackus]

The Combat shotgun is a very goon weapon and when you will buy the firestorm ammo it will be excellent.
As per the Leader, you may start like this and later buy him a good pistol or, as @el_guestos suggested a chain sword.

As a general suggestion, it is ok to build your initial gang thinking about future improvement

Good point. I didn't think about the Firestorm Ammo. That will be a great pick up later in the game.

I'll likely try a few tests games with the leader load out. It maybe better to drop the fighting knife with the loss of a power hammer attack. But i'll try a few games with each to see what I like better. But I like how the gang is fleshing out.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Since you only get three weapons at a time (enforcing this rule actually solves alot of people's gripes about over equipped fighters but that is a different subject), I'd recommend starting the least at just hammer and launcher. Decide the third weapon later. Problem with full equipment to start is creating a second equipment set could get you the wrong setup during random selection. 3 attacks base is more than most so the "extra" knife attack isn't necessary especially since you lose a hammer attack. I've found 3 hammer better than 2 hammer and two knife as a starting point.

Iron will for 6 guys is awesome, I'm personally against over seer, however nerves of steel can be good too. It ends up being personal choice. So try one and pay close attention to when it pays off vs the loss of the other benefit. This will help you see which is better for your play style and or meta.

In closing 3 attack leaders don't need an extra attack weapon. I actually skipped the stimm slugs for the leader went hammer, launcher, and stub cannon. This gives him a dependable backup range weapon when he is out of ammo on the launcher as he is always more shooty deployed than rushing for combat. The hammer just looks cool and dissuades enemies trying to charge him.

 

[TenzRackus]

Since you only get three weapons at a time (enforcing this rule actually solves alot of people's gripes about over equipped fighters but that is a different subject), I'd recommend starting the least at just hammer and launcher. Decide the third weapon later. Problem with full equipment to start is creating a second equipment set could get you the wrong setup during random selection. 3 attacks base is more than most so the "extra" knife attack isn't necessary especially since you lose a hammer attack. I've found 3 hammer better than 2 hammer and two knife as a starting point.

Iron will for 6 guys is awesome, I'm personally against over seer, however nerves of steel can be good too. It ends up being personal choice. So try one and pay close attention to when it pays off vs the loss of the other benefit. This will help you see which is better for your play style and or meta.

In closing 3 attack leaders don't need an extra attack weapon. I actually skipped the stimm slugs for the leader went hammer, launcher, and stub cannon. This gives him a dependable backup range weapon when he is out of ammo on the launcher as he is always more shooty deployed than rushing for combat. The hammer just looks cool and dissuades enemies trying to charge him.

@Vonvilkee You make some good points. I didn't think about expansion for equipment. I may switch up the stim slug stash like you mentioned but I like the extra humph should he take a flesh wound or what not.

 

[Malo]

Isn't 6 fighters going to cause a lot of issues with bottle checks? You have one guy Injured or OOA and you have a chance of bottling.

Also you can draft gangs on the tools easily if you want.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Isn't 6 fighters going to cause a lot of issues with bottle checks? You have one guy Injured or OOA and you have a chance of bottling.

Also you can draft gangs on the tools easily if you want.

It does and it doesn't... goliath cool keeps you in the game even bottled should you choose to. I've started 6 strong saving for a doctor visit and added gangers each game after that. Most people go bodies and equipment light in the beginning due to bottling... goliath win after bottling! So I started trying well equipped to start and it works for goliath. Escher suffer, orlock or is a nail biter, van saar usually want out by the time they bottle, haven't tried cawdor or delaque...

I've been far more successful starting small and equipped adding fighters as the other gangs gear up than I have been with bodies and joining the arms race.

 

[TenzRackus]

Isn't 6 fighters going to cause a lot of issues with bottle checks? You have one guy Injured or OOA and you have a chance of bottling.

It may be tough, but I am hoping Iron will will help me out. With Goliaths being so expensive its harder to run them in higher numbers. I have a 8 man list done as well but the equipment is pretty bare bones in comparison.

Leader: Combi Plasma, PH, Stim Slug Stash, True Grit
Champ 1: Stub Cannon, Fighting knife, Head Butt
Champ 2: Renderizer, Respirator, Nerves of Steel
Ganger 1: Stub Gun, Spud Jacker
Ganger 2: Stub Gun, Spud Jacker
Ganger 3: Brute Cleaver, GL
Ganger 4: Stub Gun, Brute Cleaver
Juve: Stub Gun

 

[BillyDee]

If you want the extra melee attack on the Leader and Champ1, I would recommend swapping the fighting knife for a stub gun. Back up ranged attack and means you still get three swings with the power hammer.

 

[Lord Slug]

I love the advice in this forum, Especially having the leader with just a stub gun and power hammer. I would love to lose the grenade launcher on my current leader, and put the points elsewhere. any thoughts on the "Krumper" rivet cannon?

 

[ten_kage]

I love the advice in this forum, Especially having the leader with just a stub gun and power hammer. I would love to lose the grenade launcher on my current leader, and put the points elsewhere. any thoughts on the "Krumper" rivet cannon?

Not yet tested since the "upgrade" recieved in the new book. It still has a very short range (little more than a flamer)and it is still dependable on the "sub-par" BS of champions (unlike a flamer).
Might be an option for a leader if you want to run it that way, or for a tailor skilled champion if you want to put the effort in it.