N18 Grav Pistol Cost

[HugeSamples]

I just recently noticed that in the Core Rulebook (page 264) a grav pistol costs 70 credits, while in House of Shadows it costs 90 credits (I think Van Saar get a discount on grav weapons, but I don't own House of Artifice).

Is this a typo or a correction?

I've always found the grav pistol to be a bit of a hard sell at 90 credits, but 70 makes it much more attractive.

 

[Aulenback]

In the pdf 2022 Trading Post, the grav pistol was also R11, 70 credits, so it looks as though 2022 was the update to the 2020 House of Shadows price, and the 2023 Core Rule Book is simply confirming it.

That said, on the House Lists for Delaque, they maybe are looking to have them pay a premium price (90 credits) in exchange for it being not Rare 11? And for being able to buy it before their first scenario. Trading Post prices and House List prices are acknowledged to not always match, on purpose, so changing one does not automatically change the other. The Delaque list in House of Shadows RAW still buys it at Common, 90 credits, while visiting the Trading Post purchases it at R11, 70 credits.

 

[HugeSamples]

That said, on the House Lists for Delaque, they look to pay a premium price (90 credits) in exchange for it being not Rare 11. And for being able to buy it before their first scenario. Trading Post prices and House List prices are acknowledged to not always match, on purpose, so changing one does not automatically change the other. The Delaque list in House of Shadows still buys it at 90 credits, while visiting the Trading Post purchases it at R11, 70 credits.

I'm not sure I buy this reasoning. Plasma pistols (rare 9) are on most house lists and I can't think of any instances of anyone paying above MSRP.

Is rare 11 somehow that much more special?

Out of curiosity, what other instances of markups are there for having weapons/wargear on a house list?

 

[Hobo86]

necrodamus has a sheet with an overview in the vault
there's a few differences (cheaper lasguns for Escher, cheaper bolters for enforcers, ...)

I suppose the idea is it adds an additinal strategical option for gang that do not have a certain base acces to a certain piece of gear/weapon.

N17 - Trading Post, Armoury & Traits

Complete

yaktribe.games

 

[HugeSamples]

there's a few differences (cheaper lasguns for Escher, cheaper bolters for enforcers, ...)

Those are all discounts and not markups.

 

[Hobo86]

the red marked prizes in the pdf are markups, there are a few

 

[HugeSamples]

Ah I see, most of these occur in really out of date books, or books with a lot of typos (Orlock for example).

 

[HugeSamples]

Not sure I'm convinced this isn't just typical GW negligence.

 

[Hobo86]

it's likely in cases where GW tries to push prizes for specific gangs (?)
badzone enforcer having a markup on hardened layered flak armor is also a bit odd...

 

[HugeSamples]

This was informative, thanks guys.

I think I'm going to opt to make the prices match in the campaign I'm designing.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Official acknowledgement exists for discounts (some gangs pay less for some items). Never have there been express intention of the opposite, for some gangs to pay a higher price than going to the Trading Post. Furthermore, there are only very few random items that do this. Necrodamus has an explanation for values in red text:

Items that have unreliable stats. Examples:
● Incorrect: A value that doesn't make sense. For example a gang-specific cost higher than standard cost.

This happened to Delaque Gravi Pistol, Genestealer Cult Needle pistol, Cawdor & Orlock Solid ammo (sawn-of shotgun), Goliath & Orlock Grenade launcher / bolter combi, Genestealer& Chaos cults demolition charges, Corpse Grinder Cult Cleaver, Ash Waste Nomad respirator, Escher & Van Saar stun grenade.

Some of which are Common, so only applies for the first battle (or fighters without TP access).

It feels uninentional.

 

[HugeSamples]

Never have there been express intention of the opposite, for some gangs to pay a higher price

this is what my gut says too.

 

[libratorr]

Official acknowledgement exists for discounts (some gangs pay less for some items). Never have there been express intention of the opposite, for some gangs to pay a higher price than going to the Trading Post. Furthermore, there are only very few random items that do this. Necrodamus has an explanation for values in red text:

This happened to Delaque Gravi Pistol, Genestealer Cult Needle pistol, Cawdor & Orlock Solid ammo (sawn-of shotgun), Goliath & Orlock Grenade launcher / bolter combi, Genestealer& Chaos cults demolition charges, Corpse Grinder Cult Cleaver, Ash Waste Nomad respirator, Escher & Van Saar stun grenade.

Some of which are Common, so only applies for the first battle (or fighters without TP access).

It feels uninentional.

Making the Trading Post less expensive than the gang list is actually pretty reasonable - it prevents gangs from spamming with weapons that offer strong synergies right off the bat.

Possibly a result of people playtesting a gang and finding out that there's just A Build that trumps all others - and formulating costs accordingly*.

It conforms with other round 1 campaign restrictions like:

• Escher can't access Chems in game 1 - have to wait for the Trading Post action so they get at least one game with vulnerable champions;
• Cawdor can't get to their insane 20 credit incendiary traps (another "requires Trading Post" for a common item action) so they have to show a little more creativity than template spam; and
• Genestealer Cults can't arm all of their Neophyte Hybrids with special weapons at game 1 either - only after game 1.

*If only they'd looked at Van Saar's plasma and rad weapons after the rad nerf - the radgun is over-priced under the current version of rad so plasma has become more core to that gang's identity than it should be.

 

[TopsyKretts]

If that was a concern, it would have a much broader application that just the infamous first battle. Sure higher cost is a thing, for example primary / secondary skills. It makes sense when it is intentional. It doesn't make sense when it's just a few random mistakes. If something is broken, I'm not sure it helps that much that it is broken in let's say 9/10 games instead of 10/10?

 

[HugeSamples]

I think the whole "after the first game" thing is kind of dumb, as @TopsyKretts pointed out more eloquently than me.

In old munda, getting good guns was pure RNG (you rolled randomly on the trading post to see what you were offered). That has its own set of pros and cons, but it did help with "spamming the good guns". It also made getting a "good gun" feel exciting.

As far as prices go, I'm convinced that the more expensive price mismatches are typos/people not knowing what books contained what, as well as it being hard to change physically printed books.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Is rare 11 somehow that much more special?

You have a glut of credits and need to boost your weaponry. After paying two medical escort actions for a master of shadows and Naght Ghoul, you have one post battle action left to Trade from one phantom.
Who then rolls a 3 on Seeking Rare equipment.
So no Rare 11 Trade Post items.
However as the Grav weapons are the Delaque clan list they can still purchase one.
You have constant access to the weapon (as long as you can make the Trade Post battle action in the first place ) but if you happen to roll well you can get a discount. It actually (entirely by accident on GWs part I'm sure) simulates bartering and the possibility of getting a better deal.

It would not actually be objectionable me if other gangs had similar issues on their lists trading constant access for the potential to get a cheaper version.

Take Van Saar. They have constant access to plasma weapons. (The dreaded plasma spam). If they had a 20 credit mark up on their Gang list plasma guns (120) it would make the other special weapons on their List a more interesting choice from the get go.
They can always plasma spam if they want too from the gang list but they would pay a little more. If they want it cheaper then roll well on the Trade Post.

 

[libratorr]

It would not actually be objectionable me if other gangs had similar issues on their lists trading constant access for the potential to get a cheaper version.

Precicely.
The fact fighters can go bargain hunting gives another dimension to Trading Post interactions beyond the "get whatever goes bang biggest for buck that isn't on my list".

Genestealer cults are particularly interesting in that regard - they have really expensive Needle Pistols (probably because they were on the original GSC 40k sprues and Book of Ruin appears to have been written with a view to what minis were actually released with rather than what wasn't on the original release...glances at all of those Oldmunda gangers with Trading Post-only loadouts) but pay more for them than anyone else because there really isn't all that much in the way of excuses for miners to have Needle Pistols readily available to them...(unless some of them were medicae in a former life, or that the Needle Pistols are actually meant to be hand-held industrial chemical delivery systems meant for applying solvents or other chemicals to machinery?).

Take Van Saar. They have constant access to plasma weapons. (The dreaded plasma spam). If they had a 20 credit mark up on their Gang list plasma guns (120) it would make the other special weapons on their List a more interesting choice from the get go.
They can always plasma spam if they want too from the gang list but they would pay a little more. If they want it cheaper then roll well on the Trade Post.

Oh for a revised edition of gang lists (with starter-sprue-appropriately-available and fluff-relevant weapons discounted), with the Apocrypha and Campaign content added in, preferably released as a one volume Gang War-style all-faction supplement!

You know, for people wanting to start the hobby lawfully after purchasing the Core Book but not wanting to drop hundreds on multiple extra books where they only need a dozen-odd pages from across hundreds of dollars worth of bound paper...