N18 Group Activation: Order of fighters

[LadyJaye]

Hello, my group is having a disagreement about the group activation rule. The disagreement is about whether the activated leader/champion with the Group Activation (GA) special rule must activate and use their actions before any additional fighters can use their activations.

For example, if a player chooses to activate a champion with group activation (1) and an additional ganger. Can that player then make the ganger complete its actions (ie. charge and fight), before the champion then commpletes it's action (ie. charges the same enemy to fight gaining the assist bonus)?

The rule in the 2023 Core Rulebook says "When a player activates such a fighter, they can choose to use this special rule, allowing them to activate additional Ready fighters at the same time as the fighter". Some of our players are interpreting this to mean that when you nominate a leader/champion with the GA rule to activate, you also nominate other fighters and then choose the order including the leader/champion as part of the group. Some of our other players are are interpreting this that the GA rule doesn't come into effect until after you've activated the Leader/Champion and so those that you declare as part of the group activation can't be activated until after the already activated Leader/Champion does their 2 actions.

Has there been an official ruling on this, or is it generally agreed upon which way this rule works? I've searched through several threads both here and on other sites about this and can't seem to find anyone asking this question in the past, which makes me concerned I'm overlooking something.​

 

[SirWalterManny]

The rules as written (you’ve only quoted part of the rules) seem pretty clear, and I dont think Ive ever played with anyone who has interpreted differently: you nominate your fighter, then nominate all in the group activation, then choose the order in which they all take their activation:

• The controlling player must nominate all of the fighters who will be activated in this way before any of them are activated.
• Once all participants of the Group Activation have been nominated, the controlling player selects one and activates them as normal, fully resolving their activation before selecting and activating the next. Each fighter activates individually; groups do not activate simultaneously”

(P101 of core rulebook)

 

[LadyJaye]

The rules as written (you’ve only quoted part of the rules) seem pretty clear, and I dont think Ive ever played with anyone who has interpreted differently: you nominate your fighter, then nominate all in the group activation, then choose the order in which they all take their activation:

• The controlling player must nominate all of the fighters who will be activated in this way before any of them are activated.
• Once all participants of the Group Activation have been nominated, the controlling player selects one and activates them as normal, fully resolving their activation before selecting and activating the next. Each fighter activates individually; groups do not activate simultaneously”

(P101 of core rulebook)

Thank you! That is how I interpreted the rule as well, but I was being told by other players that the 'group' that the controlling player nominates is the extra fighters and doesn't include the original leader/champion (who must go before anyone in the group activates). It seems pretty clear to me as well, but apparently not to everyone, I just don't know how to convince them to re-consider it.

 

[TopsyKretts]

If that was the case it would need to be spelled out explicitly. If they struggle to understand this rule, they will have a bumpy ride on Necromunda.

 

[Gdolkin]

As SirWalter says, Rules As Written says nothing to indicate that the Leader or Champion initiating a Group Activation has to complete their personal Activation before their underlings perform theirs, just that all participants in a GA have to be declared before the player then selects and completes the activations of the individual participants. If people are being stubborn with this erroneous 'boss has to go first' interpretation, remind them that Necromunda is a narrative rpg-kinda game and why the hell would a gang leader not be telling his underlings to 'stick your head over the ledge and give me covering fire so I can make a break for it' or 'take point and see what's round that corner, I'll be right behind ya' or 'this one's all yours boyo, go get him and I'll cover your back' etc etc

 

[SirWalterManny]

Thank you! That is how I interpreted the rule as well, but I was being told by other players that the 'group' that the controlling player nominates is the extra fighters and doesn't include the original leader/champion (who must go before anyone in the group activates). It seems pretty clear to me as well, but apparently not to everyone, I just don't know how to convince them to re-consider it.

I think those arguing that the fighter who has this skill has to take their actions first are adding in an unwritten instruction which just isn’t part of the rules.

The rules state that when they activate a fighter with this rule, “they can choose to use this special rule, allowing them to activate additional Ready fighters at the same time as the fighter").

The rules then set out the process: (1) nominate the fighters being activated (‘at the same time‘ as the fighter with the skill) and then (2) choosing which fighter to resolve their activation for first.

I suppose the argument being made is that the description of an activation in the previous section states that ‘activating’ a model involves choosing a fighter and resolving a number of actions with them. But they are ignoring the part of the rule that states the group activation allows other fighters to activate ‘at the same time’ as the fighter with the rule, and adding an ‘after this fighter has fully resolved its activation’ instruction that is not there.

(PS my initial reply, upon rereading, is a little dismissive, but that wasn’t intended. It was intended to be agreeing with your point of not having found any threads on this elsewhere (I have not experienced or heard of this rule being interpreted in this way)).

 

[LadyJaye]

Thank you all for your responses, it's really appreciate everyone's feedback, it's helpful. I like the ludo-narrative reasoning behind "boss goes last".

I think those arguing that the fighter who has this skill has to take their actions first are adding in an unwritten instruction which just isn’t part of the rules.

The rules state that when they activate a fighter with this rule, “they can choose to use this special rule, allowing them to activate additional Ready fighters at the same time as the fighter").

Yeah I think somehow they're interpreting the part that says 'at the same time' to mean the 1 or 2 fighters being activated as part of the GA rule and not including the leader, which feels a bit like a stretch. They must be under the impression that activating a fighter to use the GA rule means that fighter has to complete their actions, before other fighters become activated. I personally never saw it that way, but since the rule didn't explicitly say include the leader in the group I wanted to know if there was an official GW FAQ on the rule that I could point to and say "see here".

If the rule was re-written to say "When a player selects a fighter to be activated" rather than "When a player activates such a fighter" so it didn't sound quite so past tense. Either way you've helped me feel confident in my stance on the rule and I'm grateful for that.

Thanks!

 

[Beebopalulla]

Just to be sure it's group activation like a leader is activating a group and not like the pseudo activation that overseer gives?

How does it works with a cult icon? The way i understand it the cult icon simply add a group and change nothing to the logic of the activation.

CULT ICON
Unlike other items of Wargear, a gang may only purchase a single Cult Icon. This item must be carried by a fighter with both the Gang Hierarchy (X) and Group Activation (X) special rules. When a fighter that is carrying a Cult Icon uses the Group Activation (X) special rule, they may activate one additional Ready friendly fighter, meaning that a fighter with the Group Activation (2) special rule may activate three additional fighters, whilst a fighter with the Group Activation (1) special rule may activate two additional fighters.

 

[TopsyKretts]

It's GA(+1). So exactly the same, but one more fighter can be included.