N18 gunslinger

Sep 3, 2024
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hi all

I would like to build a gang with a gunslinger theme, ie with many if not most characters with double sidearm (and the rest with longer guns)

Which faction would be best? I think shooting skills is a must, and also decent armour and/or discount pistols etc...

If I get engaged is double pistol effective in cc, or it is better to disengage and shoot?

(I would have liked to do this with escher but they lack the shooting skills.. I may be tempted to try it anyway XD)
 
So the absolute king of pistoleros is the Genestealer Cult Alpha, since they can take the Gunslinger skill and use their extra arm to fire 3 pistols a round rather than the usual two.

However for a whole gang based on them I'd consider Delaque, they have shooting access, and some nice pistols to make use of. Van Saar are another reasonable choice but you may find the 4" move limiting..
 
I think there'd be oddly decent merit in this with Squats. I had a leader with two IH Autopistols - not terribly effective, but the potential for two BS rolls of 2-6 hits apiece... It's quite the shenanigans.

Problem is the two Champions only get Shooting as secondary, so for effective skills you'd be limited to the Dependable Like Kyn skill (re-roll ammo, ignore Unstable). Which isn't terrible, really.

If you started with a Leader w/two IH Autopistols (rapid Fire 2) & Gunfighter, Champ w/two IH Bolt pistols (rapid Fire 1), and champ w/two IH stub guns (rapid Fire 1,possibly with rapid Fire dum-dums!) the you've got a lot of firepower. IH Bolt Pistols are 45cr, which isn't shabby. Autos at 20cr and stubs at 10cr isn't *cheap* but it's not extortionate either when they're a lot more effective.

The stub-guns champ would look to snag Plasma Pistols soon, and get to blast merrily on superpowered mode whilst ignoring Unstable!

Even without the Gunfighter skill, the champs have BS3+, and Shooting as Secondary. And with RF pistols galore, the need to take two shots isn't as important where backups are relevant: you may be going out of ammo more frequently, so having two but shooting one at a time may well be prudent. (Or you can wait 'til you're in short range to fire two.)

At least a few of your gangers and Juves could be pistolled up too, with perhaps your specialist and one or two others toting IH autoguns for the longer ranger output.

You'd still be hampered by Mv4", but it would also stop your opponents from feeling too hard done by. Get some grapnel launchers to close the distance quick-sharp, if really desired!

There's also the option of using the new KT Yaegirs kit - oodles of bolt revolvers (and "bolt shotguns" that are spitting images of Goliath stub cannons...)!
 
yeah, squats looks nice... dependable like kin is very good when shooting double, probably pairs better with autoguns (more ammo checks to make)
I agree that may be smart to fire one gun at long range and both at short range, to avoid wasting bullets XD (at least for non-dependablelikekin fighters)

juves can sport double stub to compensate for poor bs

the yaegirs look also great for mesh armour troops (it is weird to use the ironheads in box for something different than carapace armour XD )
 
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Delaque is probably your best bet, with Van Saar being a close second. Primary access to the Gunfighter (and to a lesser extent, Hip Shooting) skill is going to be a key factor.

Alternately, you could make a Venator gang and pick your skillsets and have a choice of stat lines.
 
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I messed around a bit and came up with a Venator pistoleer build. The Leader, Champions and one of the Hunters are all pretty brutal pistol wielders, with the remaining 4 fighters carrying 24" weapons (a Grenade Launcher, x2 Autoguns and x2 Lasguns).


Double pistols can be ok in melee if you have good WS and nice pistols, like a Plasma Pistol or Bolt Pistol. However, pistols are limited to 1 attack in close combat, which will cap you out at 2 attacks. Attempting to disengage makes you subject to possible reaction attacks, which is also not good. My suggestion is that if you're running a 2 pistol fighter with no long gun, you should at some point equip him/her with a decent melee weapon, like a Chainsword, to give the fighter a little more punch up close.
 
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Or you can play a proscrit gang with the mutant part of the apocrypha. You can give all your gang an extra arm that allow to shoot 3 pistols. You also can give them a mutation that allow to ignore the malus when shooting 2 guns.
Your gangers can only have one of those (buyed at the gang creation) but champs and leader can choose those as skills and get several.
 
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Or you can play a proscrit gang with the mutant part of the apocrypha. You can give all your gang an extra arm that allow to shoot 3 pistols. You also can give them a mutation that allow to ignore the malus when shooting 2 guns.
Your gangers can only have one of those (buyed at the gang creation) but champs and leader can choose those as skills and get several.
I'm not quite sure that's right, the wording for extra appendage in the apocrypha says "The Mutant increases their Attacks characteristic by 1. In addition, they may use up to three weapons with the Sidearm or Melee trait at the same time."

To me this means in melee, since the sidearm trait only applies in melee, it doesn't say anything about this changing to the 'twin guns blazing' rule, which is what lets you fire two pistols.

Conversely, the extra arm rule for the Genestealer Cult does specifically mention that it lets you fire three pistols when using Twing guns blazing (albeit only with the Alphas third arm, which is therefore slightly different from the third arms you can buy for other models)

So the way I see it, no, mutants can't fire more than 2 pistols at once, unless in melee
 
I'm not quite sure that's right, the wording for extra appendage in the apocrypha says "The Mutant increases their Attacks characteristic by 1. In addition, they may use up to three weapons with the Sidearm or Melee trait at the same time."

To me this means in melee, since the sidearm trait only applies in melee, it doesn't say anything about this changing to the 'twin guns blazing' rule, which is what lets you fire two pistols.

Conversely, the extra arm rule for the Genestealer Cult does specifically mention that it lets you fire three pistols when using Twing guns blazing (albeit only with the Alphas third arm, which is therefore slightly different from the third arms you can buy for other models)

So the way I see it, no, mutants can't fire more than 2 pistols at once, unless in melee
The lack of precision is what made me think you can shoot 3 gun. The sidearm trait also is used when shooting as you can only shoot with multiple weapons with this trait.
It was validated by our arbitrator last campaign.
I don't know the exact answer here.
 
since we're talking rules
a hand flamer is a "pistol", but not a "sidearm"

so it can't go two gun blazing and cant work in cc... which leaves me thinking: what's the difference between a non-sidearm pistol and a regular rifle?
 
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Effectively, nothing. Unless you count pistols (and knives) as only taking half a weapon slot, like I do. :)
I advise taking a melee weapon with pistol fighters when you have the creds. If you're delberately spending all that time at 12" or less you're going to end up in melee a lot more often than your 24" gun fighters. A Power Knife or Chain Sword is a good investment.
 
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since we're talking rules
a hand flamer is a "pistol", but not a "sidearm"

so it can't go two gun blazing and cant work in cc... which leaves me thinking: what's the difference between a non-sidearm pistol and a regular rifle?
Juve and prospect access, these fighters are usually restricted to pistols and melee weapons. Prospects have access to the trading post. It is a bit of a holdover from oldmunda where apparently the younger ones needed to see the damage to experience the life they were now living before they could use rifles.
 
In similar - but not identical - problems, look at the Squats' other pistol: the Stone Burner. 2"/4" melta; sidearm; Powerpack.

What you (read: I) really want is dual autopistols Hipshooting Gunslinger with two powerpack stone burners to boot. 2*RF(2) + two melt-pistol shots!

Come on, you rule-writing cowards. 3" versatile psy-guuls are fine, but some geezer with more guns than sense is too much to countenance?

Pfft.

(I concur with the reading that a second Stone Burner's just a backup, and that more than two sidearms for a Squat doesn't offer an immediately attractive benefit. But still: clearly, it's in everyone's interest that power-packs are *extra*. They're expensive and hard to use enough as it is, no need to make them uncool too!)
 
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I've drafted a first squat gang

Boss (Hip Shooting)
Smoke Grenade, Displacer Field, Ironhead Bolt Pistol, Ironhead Meltagun,

Champ 1 (Dependable Like Kin)
Mesh Armor, Ironhead Autopistol x2,

Champ 2 (Dependable Like Kin)
Mesh Armor, Ironhead Autopistol x2,

Specialist
Mesh Armor, Ironhead Boltgun, Ironhead Autopistol,

Juvie 1
Mesh Armor, Ironhead Stub Gun x2,

Juvie 2
Mesh Armor, Ironhead Stub Gun x2,


i like the leader to start with hip shooting to get some speed, and I think it matches well with smokes (first turn can move full speed and throw smoke to cover the other guys) Displacer field seems fun XD

could start without melta and buy it later to spare some credits for another fighter.
i like champions with autopistols, pairs better with dependable... or maybe mix in some stub guns. Will add plasma pistol when available.

i'm not sure about the specialist, maybe there are better options?
 
The cynic in me says thats a 6 man team, almost all short ranged, with only two weapons worth caring about.

Playing against that objective one would be to use the turn or two he needs to get into range to kill the leader, objective two is kill the specialist then wait for you to bottle.

Squats are expensive, but not so durable they can get away with a 6 man lineup in my view, they're also a little too slow to pull off a mostly pistol game, you'll be super reliant on board density to determine whether you stand a chance or not..
 
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yep, so I really should leave the melta at home to get one more kin with autogun, and maybe some spare long gun for the others

the annoying thing for a double pistol build is that if I buy say two pistols and an autogun I'm already capped on weapons without the chance to upgrade my guns later on :_(

If I get say smoke grenades for the champions would that be effective to grant cover while I close range?
 
For the price of the boltgun, meltagun, displacer field and bolt pistol... You could pretty much get the Vartijan Exo-Driller. Or a pile of autoguns and squats to shoot them.

In that respect, I'd almost switch to starting with something like this:

And that leaves you with 200+ credits still to spend on, e.g.: 4× IH Boltpistols; a Special weapon; more bodies; a hanger on; armour...

Whatever you like! Pop a Meltagun on the Leader instead of a Handflamer and you've basically got what you listed above, but more suited to thriving in the early days of a campaign.

Even setting aside the IH meltagun, with that starting point you' have already got two geezers throwing smokes (ergo: geysers?), three folks laying suppressing fire, and three pure dafties, and ready to become the rooting tooting gunslingers they were born to be.

Those last three *can* (will!) be dual wielding - especially modelled that way! - but as a starting point, they don't need to have actually paid for all that. And weapons like IH Boltguns and Meltaguns are amazing, but the price you pay for them isn't purely credits, but also the

Also, two (or three, as above) autoguns give plenty of ranged shots which can be used to exert pressure & pinning. Hitting on 2+ (aimed) with a Champion, which is reasonably reliable.

Going for the Handflamer leader is more as an indication: it's a starting point.

Leaders are always gonna behave a target on their head, this way you turn it against them: they're there to be a bit of a "What's going on there?" puzzle. Is it a cunning plot, or the only one in your gang who can do *that*? (Yes, yes.)

But everyone with an auto-weapon here is *capable* of landing 6 hits on someone. Reasonably capable. That IH Boltpistol? One action could see it output six damage into someone, with only the normal ammo/jamming risk.

It's not crazy strong, nor is it terribly subtle, but it's enough to appear like there's no trick (there isn't), and to therefore have your opponents underestimate how strong your simple band of unarmoured dafties can be.

They're not a crowd of psy-ghuuls, and they'll still be outnumbered when the Bonepickers appear, but that sort of list (+ bells & whistles) is probably the easiest way to start (and be kind on yourself) whilst keeping you close to going gunslinging-mad when a campaign gets rolling.

Doubly so if you keep those Juves around, a single BS XP advance and suddenly you've got them to the point where buying dum-dums & a second gun is attractive (and inexpensive). Not amazing, but certainly entertaining.

And on-brand!

(As a last side-note, I've been quite impressed with two drill kyn w/IH boltguns recently. It's nearly 300 credits, but they do ranged *and* damage, leaving the rest of my gang to cosplay as people going places with things to do [i.e. get closer, go after objectives, sometimes hit things with other things, shoot from a range where your target gets sore ears at the very least.] Not sure it's *wise*, but it means that - in combination with a Claim Jumper - I've felt free to be quite silly with the other 630 credits and approach missions with an oddly liberated attitude. None of my eggs are in my baskets, I'm free!! )
 
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As other already pointed at delaque and other gangs, I won't get into that, but for me the best and also most in style choice for a gunslinger gang by far are Orlocks.

Those prospect Wreckers with their 6+3 = 9 Movment, or even 9+d3 if you feel lucky, brings your gunslingers in that sweet pistol short range faster than any other gang (save maybe Delaque with Infiltrate skill). Also often overlooked Wreckers have Shooting as a primary skill group which is noice.

2 or even more Arms Master Champs following behind those Wreckers each dishing out Nerv of Steel for free each round and also giving a +2 Bonus to your bottle tests which you have to plan for if getting this close are more than just a nice bonus. And those Champs with shotguns as backup fit the gunslinger wild west theme nicely in my book.

But the one thing nobody else has access to are Orlock Legendary names. For just 6xp you can pick one and your Wreckers can have up to 2 of those, your Champs even 3. Take a look at Two-guns (HoI p96) and you will choose Orlock just for that alone. A skill which triggers a Nerv test for all enemys in 6" each time you use two guns blazing (even if you won't hit a sleeping ogryn) could be fatal to your enemy plans if used by 2 or more Wreckers in waves.

Follow up with your Champs and Leader to shot up those broken fleeing sorry wannabe gangers and if something is too tough to break use some emergancy Demo charges with your wreckers which you could perfectly style like those red TNT sticks seen in many western movies to keep your gunslinger theme.
 
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hi,
ran a test game with IH

charter master with bolt pistol, hand flamer, hip shooting and displacer field: was fun, bolt pistol was good if there was need to land a long shot, bust most of the time the handflamer would do the work. displacer field is quite random, but this guy will see a lot of bolter/plasma return fire, and needs all the help he can get XD

juvie with two IH stub gun and mesh armour was also quite fun... needs to get within 6 to hit something, but it is fast enough and resistant enough to get there, very good value overall

IH auto pistols were... not impressive. shorter range and lower accuracy than stub guns... more bullets, yes, but if they don't it isn't worth much :/ maybe one stub gun and one autopistol is a better mix for champions
 
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