N18 Helot Cult Gangs - do we still get Specialists?

Stubram

Gang Hero
Jul 9, 2016
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Hi guys. The most updated Necrodamus a) doesn’t mention Helot Specialist in starting gangs, and b) looks like it restricts Witches to their original crappy powers. I thought they could have any Universal power now? If so, why can’t I choose one on the gang roster?
 
Where does it restrict witches to their original crappy powers?
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About the specialist, that's not a chaos cult thing. It is universal, so either everyone should have it or no one. I see absolutely no value toggling it on or off for specific gangs.
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You are a wonder and a scholar. Cheers dude. It’s taken me several days just to work out which books to ignore or what supersedes others. Good ol’ GW. Thanks again
 
Oh boy that's a controversial topic. Probably cross-referencing multiple conflicting books and then having a consensus in yaktribe discussions. As usual :p
Ah ok, seems that its been doing the rounds for quote a while. I couldnt see anything to suggest you could have both before, always took it as Wyrd powers can be selected as skills and you get one skill i.e. a Wyrd power at creation.
 
I think we need to kick the tyres on this, i don't remember seeing the linked discussion, and reading it, it looks like there was a brief chat where one person stated their view of what the rules say and everyone agreed and/or added a "lol typical GW" type comment without opening a book themselves.

If this is correct, its HUGE stealth edit that massively increases the viability of psykers throughout the game, id have thought it would be all over Necromunda pages but this is the first time I've ever seen it suggested that this is the how it works.

I'm in work now, I will dredge through the rulebooks and faqs when I'm back to sense check this, id suggest others do the same.
 
OK, that's interesting.

So page 52 of the Book of Outcast says "Unless otherwise specified , all fighters with the Sanctioned Fighter or Non-Sanctioned Fighter rule start with a single Wyrd power, either chosen from those included in their gang list or from one of the disciplines presented here"

Looking across the books, Delaque have a specific rule which specifically mentions getting wyrd powers, but other, older psykers (Cult Adepts etc) all seem to benefit from the rule.

What a nuts stealth edit...

On the plus side, it does make Cult Adepts a hell of a lot more viable...
 
So the consensus is due to that line in the Book of Outcast that my Chaos Helot Witch has one primary skill and one Wyrd Power at the start?
 
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I've had a look in Book of Ruin, and yes I think it does apply.

Rules for the Witch says they start with "one skill chosen from their primary skills list and the non-sanctioned psyker skill"

Applying the rule from Book of Outcast above, starting with non-sanctioned psyker skill gives the Witch a free starting power.

I thought the "unless stated otherwise" caveat might apply in the case of older gangs but i can't see anything that would invalidate the new rule from Book of Outcast.

Like I said, it's a pretty significant stealth edit, I'm a little amazed at how little it seems to come up because it makes Cult Adepts and Witches really solid picks now - I guess people are too busy playing with vehicles and the cult gangs aren't getting much love
 
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The term "non-sanctioned" or "sanctioned" isn't relevant in this topic. This is universal for all psychers, regardless of sanctioned and non-sanctioned :p

I think since this applies to virtually all gangs, it doesn't shift much in balance of power.
 
OK, that's interesting.

So page 52 of the Book of Outcast says "Unless otherwise specified , all fighters with the Sanctioned Fighter or Non-Sanctioned Fighter rule start with a single Wyrd power, either chosen from those included in their gang list or from one of the disciplines presented here"

Looking across the books, Delaque have a specific rule which specifically mentions getting wyrd powers, but other, older psykers (Cult Adepts etc) all seem to benefit from the rule.

What a nuts stealth edit...

On the plus side, it does make Cult Adepts a hell of a lot more viable...
Hi bud. My gaming gr say the Book of Outcast DOES specifically exclude Witches, which means in our upcoming campaign, they’re back down to being awful again i guess?
 
The term "non-sanctioned" or "sanctioned" isn't relevant in this topic. This is universal for all psychers, regardless of sanctioned and non-sanctioned :p

I think since this applies to virtually all gangs, it doesn't shift much in balance of power.
My group disagrees as they say Witch does specify otherwise, which is a massive pain as I want to use one, but I’m buggered if I’m going to buy the Books of Ruin AND Outcast to try and argue it. I think I’m scuppered.
 
Book of the Outcast came out long after Book of Ruin, and basically entirely revamped psykers, which to that date were essentially useless, and (to my understanding) rarely taken. I can see no good reason why changes applied in the Book of the Outcast, which is THE book on psykers, don't apply to witches. You might make that argument.

You might also argue that the meta, at least on this forum, for witches, was for a witch to take a skill, and ignore the psychic powers in their list completely, since they were all a bit lacklustre, which again demonstrates how poorly psykers were working prior to Book of the Outcast.

You might also ask why your group are seeking to further limit what is already a fairly limited, relatively weak gang.
 
Hi bud. My gaming gr say the Book of Outcast DOES specifically exclude Witches, which means in our upcoming campaign, they’re back down to being awful again i guess?
I'd have to double check to get you exact quotes from the books, but I wrote my post after going through both books at the time and not finding anything that would exclude cult psykers (Adepts and Witches) from benefitting from the changes in Book of the Outcast, I can have a dig through the books to get you exact page references but I would be challenging this in your group as I think they've got this one wrong
 
Cheers all. The consensus is that it’s a common sense oversight, but as everyone playing this campaign is a first timer, there’s a blanket rule which is Rules As Written which I get in principle, but does kill the Witch, at least until next campaign and things relax.

Someone has just suggested I drop the Helots entirely and make a corrupted outcast gang instead. The only negative being that you can’t switch gods (which I don’t plan on doing anyway)