N18 Hive Wars starter set Escher gang

[Scaffer]

Hi There,

I've been playing Killteam for a while now and after trying out a narrative campaign, I really liked the look of Necromunda. Thus I picked up a copy of the Hive Wars starter set.

I'm trying to build a list for the Escher gang with the core rules and models that come in the box, and have come up with the below. Any advice would be appreciated.

Leader - Plasma gun, lasgun, Mesh armour Skill: Spring up Cost:240
Champion - Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Mesh armour Skill: Sprint Cost: 205
2 x Ganger - Shotgun, Acid rounds, fighting knife, Flak armour Cost: 110 each
3 x Ganger - Lasgun, Smoke grenade, flak armour Cost: 70 each
3 x Juve - Stubgun, fighting knife Cost: 40 each

My thinking is the Leader and lasgun gangers would provide long range fire, whilst the juves would rush in before the champion and shotgun gangers close with the enemy.

 

[Psyan]

Hello and welcome!

I'd suggest ditching all of the Flak armor; with Mesh armor being much better and only costing a little more, it's better to spend the few extra credits or go without until you can spend those credits. I'd also suggest losing the Fighting Knives and any back up Lasguns. Yes, they're fairly cheap, but they're not that good. Get Stiletto Knives instead or wait until you can afford them; they're much better.

You've only got one Champion and no Specialist. Upgrade one of your gangers to Specialist (it's free!) and consider equipping them with a Grenade Launcher; it's generally the best choice for Specialists. Needle Rifles are a distant second place.

Add a second Champion; they're very worth it. I'd suggest a Death Maiden for melee power. Your regular Champion should be focused on ranged combat, not melee; the Death Maiden does that far better. Give your regular Champion a Grenade Launcher, a Boltgun, a Plasma Gun (maybe too expensive?) or if you're going for cheap, you could do a Needle Rifle. I suggest Spring Up as the best skill for the Death Maiden or anyone you want to do serious work.

 

[Scaffer]

Hello and welcome!

I'd suggest ditching all of the Flak armor; with Mesh armor being much better and only costing a little more, it's better to spend the few extra credits or go without until you can spend those credits. I'd also suggest losing the Fighting Knives and any back up Lasguns. Yes, they're fairly cheap, but they're not that good. Get Stiletto Knives instead or wait until you can afford them; they're much better.

You've only got one Champion and no Specialist. Upgrade one of your gangers to Specialist (it's free!) and consider equipping them with a Grenade Launcher; it's generally the best choice for Specialists. Needle Rifles are a distant second place.

Add a second Champion; they're very worth it. I'd suggest a Death Maiden for melee power. Your regular Champion should be focused on ranged combat, not melee; the Death Maiden does that far better. Give your regular Champion a Grenade Launcher, a Boltgun, a Plasma Gun (maybe too expensive?) or if you're going for cheap, you could do a Needle Rifle. I suggest Spring Up as the best skill for the Death Maiden or anyone you want to do serious work.

Thanks for the advice, are these rules from the House of Blades book? I currently only have the core rulebook and the Hive wars set. So I just have the core models for Escher, otherwise I would have made a Death maiden too because a lot of people recommend her.

From when I was building the list, it said that the flak armour was free, is that not correct? Apologies for any ignorance, after playing so much killteam I'm not used to this level of unit customisation.

 

[Psyan]

Here's my ideal starting Escher gang. 9 fighters, including 3 Champions. It's a bit light on equipment, favoring a higher number of starting fighters. With two Grenade Launchers, a Boltgun, a Shotgun and the two Lasguns it presents a good threat at range, but also has a bit of melee punch with the Death Maiden and the Shock Whip on the Queen. Ideally, the gang expands it's melee ability as a campaign progresses.

Far Dareis Mai

Escher (HoB) gang with a rating of 1000 by Psyan

yaktribe.games

 

[Psyan]

The DM rules are in the HoB book, you'll definitely want that. In the more recent rules almost no one starts with armor.

Also, my hat's off to you for using the Acid Rounds on the Shotgun ganger. It's one of my favorite Escher upgrades.

 

[Scaffer]

The DM rules are in the HoB book, you'll definitely want that. In the more recent rules almost no one starts with armor.

Also, my hat's off to you for using the Acid Rounds on the Shotgun ganger. It's one of my favorite Escher upgrades.

I'm assuming everyone plays with the dedicated rules for their gang instead of using the core rules these days? I was trying to have a relatively low cost intro to the game and the Hive war set seemed like good value for all the Sci-Fi terrain included.

I'll pick up the HoB book and see if I can find a Deathmaiden on bitzbox or ebay, seems they're an autopick for the gang.

 

[Psyan]

I'll pick up the HoB book and see if I can find a Deathmaiden on bitzbox or ebay, seems they're an autopick for the gang.

It really is. That said, you've got parts in the basic kit; there is nothing stopping you from building your own Death Maiden from those. A Power/Stiletto Sword and a Plasma/Needle Pistol.

Also, don't mix Toxin and normal weapons on non-Juve fighters. If you go with Toxin (Stletto Sword, Needle Pistol/Rifle), definitely put a Chem Synth on that figher for better wound rolls.

 

[Scaffer]

It really is. That said, you've got parts in the basic kit; there is nothing stopping you from building your own Death Maiden from those. A Power/Stiletto Sword and a Plasma/Needle Pistol.

Also, don't mix Toxin and normal weapons on non-Juve fighters. If you go with Toxin (Stletto Sword, Needle Pistol/Rifle), definitely put a Chem Synth on that figher for better wound rolls.

Thanks, you've been a lot of help.

How does this look instead?

https://yaktribe.games/underhive/gang/void_vipers.507168/

 

[Psyan]

That looks pretty sharp. The only thing I would question is the combi-weapon on the Queen. That Needle Rifle doesn't really add much to what the Boltgun already does and makes you far more likely to have ammo issues; I'd go with just a regular Boltgun and either add Mesh Armor to your Specialist or get another Little Sister with a Stubgun with the saved credits.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Yep, I’ll be that boring grognard diving into the conversation…

@Scaffer Yeah, as suggested if you’re really into Escher then definitely get House of Blades. Its their book and has (had, it doesn’t include vehicles) all their stuff in.

Also you’ll find the points values in the Hive War book and the HoB may differ. Also its structure is more in line with the 2017-19 era builds.

I’ll also add there’s absolutely nothing wrong with just using the Hive War book for now until you get a feel for the game. Plus you can use the other gangs listed for any other players - which is what it seems like you were going for initially.

I'm assuming everyone plays with the dedicated rules for their gang instead of using the core rules these days? I was trying to have a relatively low cost intro to the game and the Hive war set seemed like good value for all the Sci-Fi terrain included.

I’m a little confused by your use of Core Rules.

If you mean the 2023 Core Rulebook (the one that’s about 2” thick “) then that is the latest comprehensive main rules and should be used over any others.

If you mean the demo lists in the back of the Hive War book - that’s just what they are, demo versions to give you a taste of them all.

If you’re intending to go all out with Escher you’d need the 2023 Core Rulebook, House of Blades (preferably the Second Printing which fixed a load of mistakes) and the First Succession book which has the jetbike rules in. Then you probably need x2 boxes of the basic gang, the upgrade sprue, one box of Death Maidens and prospects and the various tactics cards packs.

But of course, you don’t really need that lot at all. Just get things bit by bit.

Honestly though, just play with what you have now and get a feel for the game. Its all too easy to slip into being led into buying endless books and model kits by well meaning people who are way too concerned with games rules and “effective list building” than, y’know, actually having fun playing a game. Which is the whole point of Necromunda - having fun with it.

 

[Scaffer]

Yep, I’ll be that boring grognard diving into the conversation…

@Scaffer Yeah, as suggested if you’re really into Escher then definitely get House of Blades. Its their book and has (had, it doesn’t include vehicles) all their stuff in.

Also you’ll find the points values in the Hive War book and the HoB may differ. Also its structure is more in line with the 2017-19 era builds.

I’ll also add there’s absolutely nothing wrong with just using the Hive War book for now until you get a feel for the game. Plus you can use the other gangs listed for any other players - which is what it seems like you were going for initially.



I’m a little confused by your use of Core Rules.

If you mean the 2023 Core Rulebook (the one that’s about 2” thick “) then that is the latest comprehensive main rules and should be used over any others.

If you mean the demo lists in the back of the Hive War book - that’s just what they are, demo versions to give you a taste of them all.

If you’re intending to go all out with Escher you’d need the 2023 Core Rulebook, House of Blades (preferably the Second Printing which fixed a load of mistakes) and the First Succession book which has the jetbike rules in. Then you probably need x2 boxes of the basic gang, the upgrade sprue, one box of Death Maidens and prospects and the various tactics cards packs.

But of course, you don’t really need that lot at all. Just get things bit by bit.

Honestly though, just play with what you have now and get a feel for the game. Its all too easy to slip into being led into buying endless books and model kits by well meaning people who are way too concerned with games rules and “effective list building” than, y’know, actually having fun playing a game. Which is the whole point of Necromunda - having fun with it.

I appreciate you diving in, I currently have the core rulebook 2023 and the Hive wars starter set. My main concern with building a list from just the core rules is that I wouldn't be able to transfer the same models over if other people are using the House books to play instead.

I don't mind buying more plastic crack, but it would feel wasteful to buy another gang box to rebuild a starting team from HoB instead.

My next big challenge is actually finding players in my area if my friends aren't interested in trying the game. I entirely bought the Necromunda stuff because I loved the aesthetic.

 

[MusingWarboss]

I don't mind buying more plastic crack, but it would feel wasteful to buy another gang box to rebuild a starting team from HoB instead.

I can understand that fear as that is precisely what happened to quite a lot of players when GW introduced the “House of” books - suddenly certain builds were just not permitted. So you’re wise to be careful.

However if you’ve only got the Escher sprue from the box set (duplicated as always) then you’ve not got too much to worry about.

The leader is the usual contentious model, as the 2017 option of whip and combi-bolter/needle was seen as poor even by 2018. Easiest option - don’t build her! Yet.

Almost everything else is useful though, even the Nightshade was boosted in HoB.

Sadly you will need to buy another gang box at some point as none of them contain enough options to get the most out of the gangs, plus extra weapon packs. Notably you’re missing any heavy weapons.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Hint: go to necrovox.org and peruse the Escher rules for free before GW pull the site from the web!!

 

[Scaffer]

The leader is the usual contentious model, as the 2017 option of whip and combi-bolter/needle was seen as poor even by 2018. Easiest option - don’t build her! Yet.

Why is this a contentious model? I've seen several people recommend the whip/bolter combo for a starting leader online.

What do you recommend if I don't build her yet?

 

[MusingWarboss]

Why is this a contentious model? I've seen several people recommend the whip/bolter combo for a starting leader online.

What do you recommend if I don't build her yet?

It’s just another in a long line of models where people have “math-hammered” the points and stats over the years and come to different conclusions.

Some swear by power sword and plasma pistol, some by whip and bolter, some by chainsword and whatever it was etc.

Truth is as a Leader you have access to a wide range of weapons and multiple fighter cards, so you can have multiple equipment sets (read up on it in the big new rulebook).

So… my suggestion is… try a few options out before you commit to gluing her together.
It’s not like a ganger who will stick with what they get when they’re hired (and a lasgun is a great pinning weapon, shotgun a very useful multiple ammo weapon) so don’t need to change - their options are often role specific.

With leaders, champs you get to pick a few loadouts, but it will still suck if you end up making a model that barely ever gets any game time as they just don’t fit your play style or you find one of the weapons not so useful in the long run.

That may be confusingly written. Sorry.

EDIT: It doesn’t help that they included the coat arms on the whip and bolter, so if you want the fancy leader coat, you need to do some modifications if you don’t want those weapons.

 

[Scaffer]

So… my suggestion is… try a few options out before you commit to gluing her together.

Now I understand why I've seen so much discussion about magnetising minis in Necromunda. I'm also beginning to see why people can have so many minis if they don't.

Thanks a lot, you've been very helpful. I'll have a deep read on Necrovox until I can get a hold of my rulebook.

 

[HugeSamples]

Equipping and Escher leader is a tricky one.

Their stat profile favors close combat. i.e. they have 3 attacks base.

They are an irreplaceable model, going for a close combat focus is dangerous. i.e. you often go "out of position" to do your melee attacks.

They are the only model in the gang with access to the leadership skills. i.e. playing support can be a thing.

Close combat being dangerous is why some people like the whip.

It's cheap.
It's let's you play shooty and not feel like you are wasting potential.
You get to attack and not be attacked back if you fail to take out what you are attacking.

On the other hand, necromunda heavily favors the charger. Which makes people question, did the whip really buy me anything?

I would say pick out how you want to play your leader.

Shooty? Go with a long range weapon like a boltgun and have the whip as a weapon of opportunity.

Close combat? Go with a power sword, chain axe, or whatever melee weapon tickles you and a strong pistol like plasma.

Support? Determine what group of models she wants to run around with and equip her to complement that "squad".

 

[HugeSamples]

Also I wouldn't sweat WYSIWYG too much unless your group requires it.

I personally like models to have at least the "good gun" shown on the model.

As far as magnetizing goes, I'd rather have more models in my display case that partial models and a baggy of bits. But stuff does get expensive money wise.

 

[Psyan]

If you're not sure about the whip (I think it's pretty cool), then you can always just start your Queen with a Boltgun or Grenade Launcher... you will always have a use for those. Then take your time to decide if you want her to become a melee blender (Power Sword and Plasma Pistol) or more of a melee supporter (two whips or whip and pistol). While the whip isn't as choppy as the sword and pistol combo, it's considerably cheaper you can still put out 5 S4, shock attacks from 3 inches away on the charge if you have two of them.

 

[MusingWarboss]

All leaders are potentially a bit tricky, precisely because they are the bedrock of the gang.

What happens though is that you will find a combination of weapons and skills that you like and you’ll probably use 90% of the time. Even in classic Necromunda people had preferred loadouts for leaders and tried to get them equipped up that way asap.

I’m not saying the two options out-of-the-box are crap, I’m saying that given the massive range of gear she has access to, just explore a few first.

WYSIWYG isn’t strictly necessary either if you’re exploring options but eventually if you find you’re always using weapons not presented on the model, it might be a good idea to actually make a model with them on.