Homebrew: Melee Heavies

HuntingLynx

Ganger
Aug 1, 2015
94
88
18
Ohio
I've been fiddling around with the idea of close combat heavies for the base houses. Basicly they would be a heavy in every aspect, but give up all basic, special, and heavy weapons. In exchange they gain a special melee ability.

Chose one:
Blitz - This model adds +1 to its combat score during the turn it charges for every full inch of movement not used. This bonus replaces the standard bonus for charging.

Intercept - This model may forfeit its turn to prepare to counter charge. Any time during an opponent's charge phase. You may pause a charging model's movment to have this model charge the interrupted enemy fighter.

If this model reaches base contact with it's charge target. The enemy fighter stops its movement, and both models are considered to have successfully charged.

Brute - This model always wins draws in hand to hand combat. All of this model's attacks are Unparryable, and this model is unable to parry. All successfull hits are doubled.

Skill Tables: Enforcers have the following skill tables commonly available to them. Combat, Ferocity, Muscle. Plus one other in fitting to their house.

Edit: Added unable to parry to the brute ability.
 
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Boltzmann

Ganger
Feb 9, 2015
230
504
63
42
Vienna / Austria
I really like the idea of close combat heavies...
but I think that's to much,... your rules seem overpowered.


Blitz:
that one seems ok at first glance, most charges are 6-8"...
but the extreme cases are horrible, if you charge at 8" you lose your charge bonus, if you charge at 4" that's a +3 combat score... +3combat score is huge. maybe you could give the model +1 Attack per inch instead of a +1 combat score per inch.
according to @enyoss an increase from 1 Attack to 2 attacks is nearly worth 1 combat score but each further attack is worth less, diminishing returns.
+1A instead of +1 combat score would feel the same at 6-8" charge distance
+1A instead of +1 combat score would NOT be overpowered at 3-5" charge distance.

Intercept:
an overwatch charger, nice, I like it but I have no clue how that one will perform...

Brute:
realy? that's just overpowered...
cannot be parried (does this include the "deflect" skill?)
wins all draws... while it cannot be parried? just give it a sword or two and it will never ever loose a combat
doubles all hits? yeah add insult to injury... great.

and all of this for only 10 creds more than a ganger?
 

enyoss

Gang Hero
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I really like the idea, and it seems to fit the Enforcer image perfectly.

I agree with @Boltzmann though on the power of both Blitz and Brute.

For Blitz I wonder if basing the WS bonus on half the remaining distance would work, along with a cap? Otherwise I think swapping the WS bonus for A as Boltzmann suggests is a good idea, although does that make it too much like Beserk Charge?

Brute is much too powerful as it is. The unparryable bit basically means the Brute will always be parrying his enemy, as he'll almost certainly take a sword of his own.

Parries basically shift probability away from your opponent winning, and dumps it such that you will win more often and, more importantly, you will draw more often. Along with a guarantee of winning all draws makes this is even more powerful. If you then double the number of hits even a humble draw, which now happen more often and which you always win, become a convincing 2 hit victory. All a bit too good I think.

Of those three subabilities, I quite like the one which doubles the number of hits you get if you win. It doesn't impact how often you will actually win but just makes you more powerful, nay Brutish, when you do. It also doesn't replicate an effect which can already be obtained by either high Initiative or the Deflect skill.

I think the core idea is pretty cool, so it would be interesting to see where you take it :).
 

Gorkamunda

Adeptus Ineptus
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There's something similar to the Blitz skill in the Orks in da Ive ruleset:


Get stuck in!: The Ork is “enthusiastic” about getting
involved in combat: when charging, the Ork
gets an additional D3” of charge distance; if the
Ork gets into combat and any of the D3” movement
hasn’t been used, the remainder is added to their
combat result in the first round of combat, but fumbles
count double for the first round of combat.



This removes the most extreme cases I think...
 

enyoss

Gang Hero
Tribe Council
Jul 19, 2015
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That seems like a great balance.

On a side note, if Enforcers already get Combat and Muscle skills, is there a risk of over-saturating the number of combat skills available to them? I already find myself rolling on just one table most of the time as getting the exact skill I need takes a few goes and becomes exponentially more likely the more I continue to roll on that table.
 

HuntingLynx

Ganger
Aug 1, 2015
94
88
18
Ohio
Thank you for the replies.

The reason for the power of the abilities is because you are giving up an actual heavy. It begins the game with the same Xp as heavies do, and hence will miss out on those extra advancements. So, I had to make the concept attractive enough to tempt players away from heavy stubbers, and the other fun toys.

I knew that Blitz would have the possibility to be broken. I considered just increasing the Attack stat for each unused inch. However, it would take away from berserk charge, and it lacked the wow factor. Because of the potential, I am considering dropping the Agility skill. That would keep the brokenness to a minimum.

The Brute was made with two-handed weapons in mind. As such, they needed something to make up for the lost of an extra attack die for dual wielding. So, to make sure it's attack dice aren't gimped I had the model be immune to parries. Winning ties also steps into that realm. While also mitigating the drawback of massive weapons. Doubling hits makes the option worth taking. @Boltzmann, the Deflect skill isn't actually a parry. So, it may always be used.

I could be swayed from dropping unparryable. However, I'm still worried it would not lure players away from the typical big gun heavy.
 

spafe

Executive Officer in charge of Hats
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Feb 8, 2013
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Instead of it being unparriable... couldn't you just say no parries may effect the combat (you are too brutish to parry, while you're unreasonable force stops parrys being used against you). Basically it brings them down to a dirty brawl then wins through experience.

Also to tone down the skills, why not say they only start with 40+d6 exp but reaplace a heavy (ie a gang can have 0-2 selections of heavies or enforcers). Kinda like the zealot for redemeptionists is a mid level starter (or is that a deacon I'm thinking of...)
 
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HuntingLynx

Ganger
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Ohio
The zealot is the one with frenzy. The deacon is the watered down heavy.

I do like the idea of the brute being unable to parry. It would direct players towards a massive weapon.

For blitz, how about capping the bonus to +3? In its original form, I'm not sure just how overpowered it would actually be. There is always overwatch. The enemy can still out maneuver. Sure the blitzer can sneak around until it is only a paltry distance way and gain a huge bonus. However, how likely is that? You may pull that off once, maybe twice. After that your opponents will be wise to the act. Also remember that Blitz replaces the usual +1 bonus for charging. How about a minimum distance that the model must be moved before blitz can kick in? Say 3 inches?
 
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spafe

Executive Officer in charge of Hats
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Still the issue is what happens when you gain leap and sprint... which 'every' enforcer with blitz will be gunning for... insta kill pretty much.

Capping at 3 could work... but seems a bit randomly fixed... I dunno...
 
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Boltzmann

Ganger
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I start to like the Brute... my objections are aginst a brute that is able to parry himself.
make brutes unable to parry
if you still need more reasons to direct them towards massive weapons you could forbid them the +1A bonus for wielding 2 weapons, or make one of their abbilities only work with massive weapons?

about the leap/sprint blitzer: maybe base the bonus on relative charge distance left not inch left:
up to a quarter of your move left --> get +1
up to half of your move left --> get +2
up to 3 quarters of your move left --> get +3
more than 3 quarters of your move left --> get +4

this will remove the case where you loose your charge bonus because you had to charge at full distance.
it introduces something like a hard cap to the bonus. you could use thirds to cap at 3 of fifths to cap at 5.

a question about the intercepter:
if he does not intercept-charge during his opponents turn does he stay in intercept mode and can hide in adition?
 
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HuntingLynx

Ganger
Aug 1, 2015
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Ohio
Some possible changes.

Remove agility from the skill list? Replace it with stealth? (I could live with this.)

A cap on the blitz bonus. (My preferred fix for the blitz ability. @Boltzmann, I dislike having a cap based on a percentage of movement used. It is more messy than it needs to be.)

How about every 2 inches, or part thereof, of unused charge movement the model has?

A minimum distance required for blitz. I was thinking 3 or 4 inches.

Or a combination of these? What are everyone's thoughts?
---------------------------------------

Having the brute being unable to parry seems like a done deal. Are there any other objections?

I don't see why you couldn't hide and be on intercept. I'd treat it just like overwatch.
 

trollmeat

Hive Guilder
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Could the name be changed from Enforcer? There is already a gang by that name. Praps "Brute"? Or is this for an Enforcer gang?
 

HuntingLynx

Ganger
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Ohio
Who are the Enforcers? Do you mean the Arbiters. The name is just a working title. More urged on by a close friend. I originally intended to just call them Melee Heavies.
 
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trollmeat

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Adeptus Arbites became/were renamed Enforcers somewhere between the original rulebook and now.
 

spafe

Executive Officer in charge of Hats
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I like enforcers, but agree it wil lget confusing, calling them Brutes solves this nicely.

every 2" of unused movement also sounds like a more manageable thing... means it will give you an edge but not become over the top.

And I don't think you should disallow duel weidling with the brute (this skill set will have to be changed name if they are all to be referred to as brutes... more thinking might have to be done on names...), can you not fall in love with a goliath slab of muscle, wind-milling wildly with 2 large cleavers?
 
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Fold

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Or not, as the case may be - since I can't see any in-world justification for it?

To me there's a difference between "fluff" and having the game rules correspond with physics and stuff. One is desirable, the other is kind of essential, so you know what it is the rules are there to model.