N18 Homebrewed Walker "melee" weapon!

[GypsyTron]

I was a bit disappointed that the walker custom vehicle has no access to any type of melee option, but I also understand, rules as written, it would be tricky to make that work. I did some brainstorming and came up with a body upgrade, "ranged" weapon, with an extremely short range. This is what I got

Walker Hand (Walker exclusive BODY UPGRADE)- 25 creds
range acc
S L S L STR D AP Traits
- 2" - +1 4 2 - knockback, rapid fire, reckless, silent

Creds cost was just an estimate. Feel free to suggest appropriate pricing.
Give me your thoughts please and thank you. Would you let this in your campaign? I think this is a decent little option, that gives some flavor to walkers that they really need. Maybe a stepping stone to more lethal options? I put rapid fire on there to simulate the multi attack nature of melee. Reckless highlights how clumsy the vehicle's appendages are. Silent keeps the "melee" attack from revealing you and I think knockback just makes sense. It wouldn't be usable with a Ram action. Would require a shoot action, or a move and shoot action to use. Just curious how people feel about it.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Walkers can already use the vehicle collision damage table for "melee" combat. As long as your opponents fighter fails a initiative test they get hit (just think of it as in place of rolling your weapon skill). You can only hit a fighter once but you can hit every fighter you come into contact that activation. All vehicle collisions move a fighter 1" away which is mostly Knockback.
You can hit your own fighters in the move which is basically Reckless.

Your base model walker has move 5 so that's a impact of S3 AP- D1. Fairly meh.
Add a ram and that's S4 AP -1 D2 in the Front arc (where you would be "charging anyway). That's now pretty good.
You could add a "Rockgrinder ram" upgrade ( not a actual one but it is still perfectly permitted rules wise. Just count it as a heavier ram) now it's a S5 AP-2 D3 hit the front arc. That's nasty.

You could then add up to two Engine upgrades to boost the walkers movement that increases the vehicle collision damage table. Look at the Nitro burner, Plasma coil engin and the Archaeotech Automatic Reactor. Any one upgrade will push up up a bracket and if you take any two that pushes you up two.
So with any one of those engine upgrades and a ram that gives you Move 6/7 a collision damage in the front of S6 AP-2 D2 and S5 AP-1 D1 every where else. With a Rockgrinder ram instead it's S7 AP-3 D3 in the front.
Add two of those engines and that pushes your move to 8/9" up a further bracket.
With a Ram that's now S8 AP-3 D3 front, S7 AP-2 D2 everywhere else. With the Rockgrinder ram that's S9 AP-4 D4 front. That beats even the Las Cutter hit in single hit damage potential.

It is also possible to use both your Body slots to add both a Rockgrinder ram and a regular ram and nothing in the rules say they do not have their effects stack so you could technically have with the two engine upgrades a S10 AP-5 D5 hit in the front! You don't have the various weapons traits available but with a hit like that do you need them? To fully max your collision hit it costs 95-110 credits plus the walker itself. That's less than most heavy weapons before suspensors. You could swap one of the rams to add Reinforced Armour for a little more staying power and still have a collision capable of taking out a Ogryn Overboss in one Ram.

 

[Pagumb]

Walkers can already use the vehicle collision damage table for "melee" combat. As long as your opponents fighter fails a initiative test they get hit (just think of it as in place of rolling your weapon skill). You can only hit a fighter once but you can hit every fighter you come into contact that activation. All vehicle collisions move a fighter 1" away which is mostly Knockback.
You can hit your own fighters in the move which is basically Reckless.

Your base model walker has move 5 so that's a impact of S3 AP- D1. Fairly meh.
Add a ram and that's S4 AP -1 D2 in the Front arc (where you would be "charging anyway). That's now pretty good.
You could add a "Rockgrinder ram" upgrade ( not a actual one but it is still perfectly permitted rules wise. Just count it as a heavier ram) now it's a S5 AP-2 D3 hit the front arc. That's nasty.

You could then add up to two Engine upgrades to boost the walkers movement that increases the vehicle collision damage table. Look at the Nitro burner, Plasma coil engin and the Archaeotech Automatic Reactor. Any one upgrade will push up up a bracket and if you take any two that pushes you up two.
So with any one of those engine upgrades and a ram that gives you Move 6/7 a collision damage in the front of S6 AP-2 D2 and S5 AP-1 D1 every where else. With a Rockgrinder ram instead it's S7 AP-3 D3 in the front.
Add two of those engines and that pushes your move to 8/9" up a further bracket.
With a Ram that's now S8 AP-3 D3 front, S7 AP-2 D2 everywhere else. With the Rockgrinder ram that's S9 AP-4 D4 front. That beats even the Las Cutter hit in single hit damage potential.

It is also possible to use both your Body slots to add both a Rockgrinder ram and a regular ram and nothing in the rules say they do not have their effects stack so you could technically have with the two engine upgrades a S10 AP-5 D5 hit in the front! You don't have the various weapons traits available but with a hit like that do you need them? To fully max your collision hit it costs 95-110 credits plus the walker itself. That's less than most heavy weapons before suspensors. You could swap one of the rams to add Reinforced Armour for a little more staying power and still have a collision capable of taking out a Ogryn Overboss in one Ram.

Yowza! Sounds like a Yak Contest idea plus TribeMeet 2025 special game all rolled into one.

 

[Xisor_of_Karak_Izor]

So, I quite like that collision rule piggyback, even going further with something like: e.g. "genuine" melee weapons might incur an initiative penalty vs collision. E.g. - 1 Init (or, on a successful Handling test to go to a -3 Init) or something like that.

Heck, standardising the ram upgrades into a sort of melee weapon, a little bit like modern 40k's vehicle profiles. (But maybe more interesting/hilarious.=

(Using a severe Init penalty, I was thinking: just because it's a truck, doesn't mean your reflexes will do the trick if it's also got one of those boxing-gloves-on-spring setups going on, and a mean-spirited driver who's a well practised auto-pugilist. [Like 'auto-erotic', right? They love cars.])

There's other ways that might work - giving a "dreadnought(x)" trait that let's the crew make x attacks, charge/engage in exception to normal etc.

But that's all more convoluted when piggybacking on collisions feels like it might do the trick well enough!

 

[GypsyTron]

Walkers can already use the vehicle collision damage table for "melee" combat. As long as your opponents fighter fails a initiative test they get hit (just think of it as in place of rolling your weapon skill). You can only hit a fighter once but you can hit every fighter you come into contact that activation. All vehicle collisions move a fighter 1" away which is mostly Knockback.
You can hit your own fighters in the move which is basically Reckless.

Your base model walker has move 5 so that's a impact of S3 AP- D1. Fairly meh.
Add a ram and that's S4 AP -1 D2 in the Front arc (where you would be "charging anyway). That's now pretty good.
You could add a "Rockgrinder ram" upgrade ( not a actual one but it is still perfectly permitted rules wise. Just count it as a heavier ram) now it's a S5 AP-2 D3 hit the front arc. That's nasty.

You could then add up to two Engine upgrades to boost the walkers movement that increases the vehicle collision damage table. Look at the Nitro burner, Plasma coil engin and the Archaeotech Automatic Reactor. Any one upgrade will push up up a bracket and if you take any two that pushes you up two.
So with any one of those engine upgrades and a ram that gives you Move 6/7 a collision damage in the front of S6 AP-2 D2 and S5 AP-1 D1 every where else. With a Rockgrinder ram instead it's S7 AP-3 D3 in the front.
Add two of those engines and that pushes your move to 8/9" up a further bracket.
With a Ram that's now S8 AP-3 D3 front, S7 AP-2 D2 everywhere else. With the Rockgrinder ram that's S9 AP-4 D4 front. That beats even the Las Cutter hit in single hit damage potential.

It is also possible to use both your Body slots to add both a Rockgrinder ram and a regular ram and nothing in the rules say they do not have their effects stack so you could technically have with the two engine upgrades a S10 AP-5 D5 hit in the front! You don't have the various weapons traits available but with a hit like that do you need them? To fully max your collision hit it costs 95-110 credits plus the walker itself. That's less than most heavy weapons before suspensors. You could swap one of the rams to add Reinforced Armour for a little more staying power and still have a collision capable of taking out a Ogryn Overboss in one Ram.

i understand the collision mechanics,
And that is specifically not what I am trying to use. I understand you can make a scary head on collision walker. I am trying to simulate a walker flailing about with its arms at things around it, not walking into them. What are your thoughts on THAT?

 

[Lunarcruiser]

i understand the collision mechanics,
And that is specifically not what I am trying to use. I understand you can make a scary head on collision walker. I am trying to simulate a walker flailing about with its arms at things around it, not walking into them. What are your thoughts on THAT?

Ok.
The vehicle mechanics are really based around not having Melee attack vehicles. The collision mechanic just overshadows actual melee attacks.

You mentioned maybe a steppingstone to something more lethal. As I described you essentially do not need anything more lethal than the collision I described. Especially as it is so cheap comparatively.

The vehicles envisioned are not the combat dreadnoughts of the Space marines but scrap vehicles.

I'm not sure about the Silent trait in your example. A stomping walker probably a tonne or more is just not a silent thing.

 

[Xisor_of_Karak_Izor]

The vehicles envisioned are not the combat dreadnoughts of the Space marines but scrap vehicles.

I'm not sure about the Silent trait in your example. A stomping walker probably a tonne or more is just not a silent thing.

Maybe, maybe not - but this is very much the same setting... and with a Chapter maintaining a presence on the planet, it's hardly implausible that this is out there somewhere, ready to roll into town to clean up the vermin that's made the locals' lifes worse than swelterin' heck.

(Edit: for clarity, it's supposed to be Really. Stealthy. Shh!! YEEHAW!)

 

[GypsyTron]

Ok.
The vehicle mechanics are really based around not having Melee attack vehicles. The collision mechanic just overshadows actual melee attacks.

You mentioned maybe a steppingstone to something more lethal. As I described you essentially do not need anything more lethal than the collision I described. Especially as it is so cheap comparatively.

The vehicles envisioned are not the combat dreadnoughts of the Space marines but scrap vehicles.

I'm not sure about the Silent trait in your example. A stomping walker probably a tonne or more is just not a silent thing

The silent trait is weird. Do vehicles automatically reveal

Ok.
The vehicle mechanics are really based around not having Melee attack vehicles. The collision mechanic just overshadows actual melee attacks.

You mentioned maybe a steppingstone to something more lethal. As I described you essentially do not need anything more lethal than the collision I described. Especially as it is so cheap comparatively.

The vehicles envisioned are not the combat dreadnoughts of the Space marines but scrap vehicles.

I'm not sure about the Silent trait in your example. A stomping walker probably a tonne or more is just not a silent thing.

The silent trait not alerting sentries wouldn’t be such a big issue (are there scenarios with vehicles and sentries?) but if you were to use this “shooting” attack without silent, it would reveal the vehicle even in the dark. Again, I understand the collision mechanics. I get how devastating they can be. That is specifically NOT what I am trying to do. I’m trying to emulate a walker with appendages getting close enough to swing them at the other object (vehicle or person) without bashing itself into said target. Why would I do that? Because that is what I want the ability to do. Do you feel as though this captures that feeling, and how would you cost that?

 

[Aulenback]

I would re-fluff the collision mechanics, to represent and cost that, to be honest. Base contact would be "close enough," and just re-naming things from "impact hits" to "lifting claw hits" should get the point across. Add in some fluff about how the massive melee weapons are almost impossible to miss with unless the target is quick enough to dodge out of the way gives a reason for the initiative test, and voila. Changing the fluff around a rule that works is FAR easier than trying to hope that a tacked-on rule might work.

[This explains why my "Pit Slave Gang" is a re-fluff of the Genestealer Cult gang rules, or my GorkaMorka Kroot mob is a re-fluff of the Mutie Raiders mob.]

In essence, the rules you need are already there. They are just named something else at the moment. Copy them, re-name them, and Bob's your uncle.

 

[Aulenback]

ATTACKING FIGHTERS WITH A WALKER HAND

If a moving walker vehicle comes into base contact with a fighter’s base, the driver of the walker can use this hand to try to attack the fighter in melee instead of running them over. The fighter is moved by the smallest amount possible to allow the walker vehicle to pass by during this "hit and run" attack, ensuring the fighter ends up outside 1" of the vehicle after the attack, as if from a successful Knockback. The Hand swings massively at the fighter, but a nimble enough fighter can dodge out of the way as the walker passes by in this hit and run. Make an Initiative test for each Standing or Prone and Pinned fighter attacked in this way, applying a +1 modifier if the fighter was Standing. If the fighter is Prone and Seriously Injured, they will only pass this test on a natural roll of a 6. If this test is passed, the fighter was able to dodge safely aside, suffering no injury but the 1" knockback effect, and not being knocked Prone. If, however, this test is failed, the fighter suffers an automatic hit from the Hand, and if Standing and Active becomes Prone and Pinned. See the Walker Hand table to determine the power of the hit. After the "hit and run" attack, the walker may continue moving, to its usual maximum movement distance. Walker vehicles may make hit and run attacks against multiple fighters during its movement, as long as it can reach base contact during that movement.

WALKER HAND TABLE

The strength of the attack of the Walker Hand relies on the force of the walker vehicles mass and speed. Use the Movement characteristic of the attacking walker vehicle on the table below to determine the Strength, AP and Damage of the Hand hits.

Movement / Strength / AP / Damage
3"-5" / 3 / - / 1
6"-7" / 5 / -1 / 1
8"-9" / 7 / -2 / 2

UPGRADING THE WALKER HAND

More powerful versions of the walker industrial hand weapon exist, copied in some cases from either Mechanicus combat designs or even those intended for Space Marine walkers. Each of these counts as a single Body upgrade.

ADVANCED WALKER HAND ... 15 Credits (Common)

A walker vehicle fitted with an Advanced Walker Hand adds 1 to the Strength, AP and Damage of any walker hand hits involving its Front arc.

CRUSHING WALKER HAND ... 40 Credits (Rare 9)

A walker vehicle fitted with a Crushing Walker Hand adds 2 to the Strength, AP and Damage of any walker hand hits involving its Front arc.

Remember that increasing the walker's speed through standard Engine Upgrades can also increase the force of hits from the hand attacks, based on the Walker Hand Table.

 

[GypsyTron]

I would re-fluff the collision mechanics, to represent and cost that, to be honest. Base contact would be "close enough," and just re-naming things from "impact hits" to "lifting claw hits" should get the point across. Add in some fluff about how the massive melee weapons are almost impossible to miss with unless the target is quick enough to dodge out of the way gives a reason for the initiative test, and voila. Changing the fluff around a rule that works is FAR easier than trying to hope that a tacked-on rule might work.

[This explains why my "Pit Slave Gang" is a re-fluff of the Genestealer Cult gang rules, or my GorkaMorka Kroot mob is a re-fluff of the Mutie Raiders mob.]

In essence, the rules you need are already there. They are just named something else at the moment. Copy them, re-name them, and Bob's your uncle.

The rules I am using are also already there, and they aren’t collisions. It would just give an extremely short range shooting attack, with no ammo check. Then you could do things like a “move and shoot”, where you drive up to a fighter, hit it with the “gun”, then run it over as well. You could aim at a target to improve your chance to hit. In retrospect I wouldn’t give it a bonus to hit. It could have two instances of the profile for one upgrade point, so you could “fire all”. Fast shot essentially just becomes rain of blows. You could give it impale so it can hit multiple targets. It functionally becomes a versatile melee attack that doesn’t allow reaction attacks, and can’t be used to make reaction attacks.

 

[GypsyTron]

I like the attempt to meet me closer. This is just the ram rules, but I do like that you met me closer with these.