N18 House of Artifice (General discussion)

[TopsyKretts]

Neoteks indeed get a choice as to which kind of champion they can become - it was the same as in the other House books.

Except Escher where fighters could only be promoted to standard Champion, not Specialist Champion (Death Maiden) for fluff reasons.

Neoteks indeed get a choice as to which kind of champion they can become - it was the same as in the other House books. Subteks and Teks cannot become champions - they become specialists upon promotion and cannot be promoted further.

Van Saar Specialist Gangers can't be promoted further? Where you got that from? So far everything I've seen of N20 uses the following promotion scheme:

 

[Thorgor]

Why on earth do they care about such negligible details? The super granular fighter specific equipment lists are way too complicated for GW to handle, so why even introduce them? It was much simpler and cleaner in N17-N18.

I think you got it: they are in over their head and created a system too complicated for them to handle. They don't seem to understand that equipment lists cannot function on a per-fighter basis in a system where everything you purchase first goes to the stash and is then distributed among fighters.
Having different costs for items among the fighter types of a gang also means the gang rating can no longer be calculated as defined in the rulebook.

If playing the Devil's advocate, I'd say it makes a difference when building a gang for a skirmish game, but skirmish is not really Necromunda's main playing mode.

It seems intentional, but the new fighter specific equipment lists of N20 are not perfect and there are many obvious errors previously. Whether if it's a mistake or not is difficult to say, but it is however completely meaningless. What possible 'value' does the game gain by having sub-carbine available to everyone but the leader?

In this specific case, I'd say it's a mistake. Any VS who can equip pistols should have access to the sub-carbine, the leader even more so than the rest.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Huh. Sometimes I wonder if they don't simply want to get rid of (weapons from) the Trading Post altogether, and simply haven't dared to take that plunge.

Yeah I can't imagine they enjoy the trading post, as it hasn't been reprinted since 2018. They did however double the trouble with the Black Market in 2019, so they weren't completely against it. But as it stands now, buying items is a complete mess.

They could remove the Trading Post to avoid these problems (would be a huge blow to the game though). Or continue down the road they started and make it worse... each fighter gets an individual trading post?

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I think this is just what happens when a small team manages a dozen different games on a tight release schedule.
None of their writers build up a strong understanding of how Necromunda works, because one day they're writing House of Artifice, and the next they're writing Titanicus, Aeronautica, or Bloodbowl.
The rules they write make sense at a surface consideration. Which is all they have opportunity to give.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

They can be promoted further as per the N18 rulebook: they can purchase an advancement to become 'Champion'. The issue is that each gang now has 2 types of champions. Last time it has been discussed, the consensus was that Specialists should get the same promotion options as their gang's Prospects (i.e. they can choose to become either type of Champion, except for Escher who can only be promoted to Matriarch for fluff related reasons)

I completely overlooked that...! I do wonder whether this is still as intended, though, as it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the House books, unlike the other Promotion rules.

 

[cardyfreak]

For what it's worth, the way the Yaktribe gang builder plays it is that all wargear is bought at the discount price. So you buy an Infrasight from the trading post for 25cr, not 40, as if you still had gang-wide house lists.

The new back end tools Malo created to encompass the new House Of... books allows much more granular control of prices and item availability so when Artifice is inputted the tools will reflect the book.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

The new back end tools Malo created to encompass the new House Of... books allows much more granular control of prices and item availability so when Artifice is inputted the tools will reflect the book.

I based my comment off of the Escher HoB list, which works as I described (for example lasguns are 5cr at the trading post).

 

[sedits]

Having different costs for items among the fighter types of a gang also means the gang rating can no longer be calculated as defined in the rulebook

This is the part that im hung up on. You can buy it cheaper, but the rating should calculated based on the cost of the fighter using it, not the one that bought it yeah?

 

[Thorgor]

This is the part that im hung up on. You can buy it cheaper, but the rating should calculated based on the cost of the fighter using it, not the one that bought it yeah?

Rating has always been independent from what you paid to get the item so yeah, that's probably the best way to solve the issue (assuming you accept the notion of fighter-specific discount in the first place...)

 

[TopsyKretts]

Gang specific discount is certainly intended for this game, but there are no evidence for fighter specific discounts to be intended. To the contrary, many such examples show signs of being mistakes.

Most grievous is the fighter specific pet limitation introduced in House of Iron and now continued in House of Artifice. How is the distinction of 0-2 and 0-3 valuable or relevant for Leader, Champion and Specialist Champion? Madness!

 

[Galtarr]

There is also the possibility that it is intentional, and they are phasing out stash and weapon swapping altogether in an upcoming N21/ N22 rulebook?

[Please tell me theres a plan...please tell me they have a plan...].

 

[cardyfreak]

I based my comment off of the Escher HoB list, which works as I described (for example lasguns are 5cr at the trading post).

Ah yeah sorry I’m mixing subjects. I was referring to the tools now being able to give items different prices between Ganger types, so wargear that is cheaper for one fighter type is pointless due to the ‘stash’ shenanigans GW have left open to be exploited.

 

[almic85]

There is also the possibility that it is intentional, and they are phasing out stash and weapon swapping altogether in an upcoming N21/ N22 rulebook?

[Please tell me theres a plan...please tell me they have a plan...].

Weapon swapping is not really allowed at the moment anyway except for one very specific exemption where a fighter dies on the tabletop and that gang wins the fight or where a fighter dies at the doctors.

Unfortunately it’s only because most of us play with house rules that allow weapon swapping that the price differences cause more issues.

They could very well be streamlining the trading post back down though and leaving house specific rare equipment on specific fighter weapon lists.

 

[TheCaptain1989]

Could someone please confirm the base size for Archeoteks? Just opened my box and it only has 4 bases in it (32mm, I assume for the Neos).

 

[DamianK]

Could someone please confirm the base size for Archeoteks? Just opened my box and it only has 4 bases in it (32mm, I assume for the Neos).

According to GW website, it should come with 4x 32mm bases and 2x 25 mm bases.

 

[TheCaptain1989]

Thanks! I’ll fish out a few spares if I have them - can’t be bothered reaching out to GW for 2 bases!

 

[fullaflash]

Hey, you do you. If you think those bits (or the Striking Scorpions ones) look good in person, use 'em.
(They look like Play Doh, though)

My chainsword sources for Necromunda conversions have been: Genestealer Cult, Tempestus Scions, Tzaangors, Space Wolves/CSM (for Goliath or CGC)

Lol you are so full of it dude, the metal sculpts from the early 2000s have way better detail and sharp edges. Plastic is easy to work with and glues well but the definition and sharpness in resin and metal is superior.

And in the last few months I have painted those eldar models for my 40k kill team.

 

[KA7777]

Sounds like you have questionable aesthetics. I don't really expect someone who shelled out for and worked on a bunch of models in the recent past to be capable of objectively analyzing them, though. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Plastic is more consistent for stuff like gear, guns, mechanical parts, basically anything that's meant to look standardized and mass produced. Metal bits often have subtle bends, warps, crooks, etc. because metal bits hold their shape when adjusted whereas plastic has memory. It's possible to get an un-warped metal bit, but I'd rather have the assurance that comes with plastic parts.

Metal/resin can hold sharper edges... but edges don't need to look very sharp at 28mm scale, particularly on an infantry model. And we haven't even gotten to the incongruity of combining sharp-edged metal pieces with not-sharp-edged plastic models. If you're a perfectionist it doesn't look right. But all of this comes down to individual tolerances.

 

[BranBuccarcher]

If its questionable putting an eldar sword on for being to chunky when you have already listed your main source as some of the chunkiest of plastics, I feel one should refrain from lobbing rocks about taste.

Resin gives by far the nicest models and when you are building a gang, each model should have attention lavished rather than made into just another infantry model, this isn't 40k.....

 

[Sundown Dreamer]

But as it stands now, buying items is a complete mess.

I also find the many lists now often confusing.

Unfortunately, I lack campaign experience and can assess it badly, but what do you think if the House Of Lists were only used when founding a new gang and only trading posts and black markets in the current game?

From the background one could say that if a gang is newly formed, then it probably does so with the permission of their house and in the area of your own house. Maybe there is even a founding ceremony or the new leader will be introduced to the top nobles of the house. When they were founded, they therefore also use the house's own armories in the form of their House Of Lists.

After that, - as soon as the game is up and the campaign begins -, I imagine they will move into the underhive, conquer their own territory, visit settlements and so on and then be left to their own and rely only on trading posts or the black market. So to the guild traders that you meet on the way.

- Would that be maybe a possibility and couldn't it make things easier?