N18 [House of Blades] Escher Gang idea

ZackSD

Juve
Mar 7, 2018
45
46
28
Verona, VR, Italia
Hi dear Hivers!
Here's my first attempt building an Escher Gang with House of Blades.
I will Play mostly 1k standalone games, but i'm aiming to have a good starting Gang even for campagins.

1☆- Queen [220]
Plasma Pistol
Chainaxe
Smoke Grenade

2□- Death Maiden [170]
Needle Pistol
Venom Claw

3□- Death Maiden [170]
Needle Pistol
Venom Claw

4○- Wyld Hunter [110]
Wyld Bow
Throwing Knife
- Phelynx Cat

5○- Wyld Hunter [110]
Wyld Bow
Throwing Knife
- Phelynx Cat

6○- Gang Sister [55]
Lasgun

7○- Gang Sister [55]
Lasgun

8○- Little Sister [55]
Stiletto Knife
Smoke Grenade

9○- Little Sister [55]
Stiletto Knife
Smoke Grenade

1000/1000 Credits

Queen goes with Wyld Hunters and kittens. Each Death Maiden will be chased by a Little Sister, Lasguns for suppression at range.
Smoke Grenades to cover all the 3 assault squads.

Any suggestion would be very appreciated!

(Forgive me for my mediocre English knowledge)
 
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Having both the bow and the Phelynx on a Wyldrunner is, I think, a poor synergy.
The Phelynx is a melee fighter and requires their owner to be in the fray as well, whereas the bow wants to be ~6-9" away for the short range.

Also, the bow alone is pretty trash. It gets marginally better with special arrows but you're paying through the nose for that. I'd try to get them toxin arrows or something, but then you already have throwing knives so really the whole bow is unnecessary.

I find that champions are the core character of the gang, and having them both be identical loadouts is a bit meh imo. I'd change it up, maybe give one double pistols or a whip instead or something.
 
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I'd also worry about having two specialist champs and losing out on group activations - might be better to have a gang matriarch, with their copious ranged options, than a second death maiden. If using default rules/prices, then a boltgun or 55cr(!) grenade launcher matriarch is a good investment!

Edit: "worth" to "worry"
 
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Having both the bow and the Phelynx on a Wyldrunner is, I think, a poor synergy.
The Phelynx is a melee fighter and requires their owner to be in the fray as well, whereas the bow wants to be ~6-9" away for the short range.

Also, the bow alone is pretty trash. It gets marginally better with special arrows but you're paying through the nose for that. I'd try to get them toxin arrows or something, but then you already have throwing knives so really the whole bow is unnecessary.

I find that champions are the core character of the gang, and having them both be identical loadouts is a bit meh imo. I'd change it up, maybe give one double pistols or a whip instead or something.
The Bow It's just because i love the model! But i agree with you about it, i wanted to put Poison Arrow on it but the Throwing Knife cost a lot less and still has Toxin trait.
 
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So my immediate thought is you have no ranged killing potential, you have 3 models that can reliably threaten T4+ but they have to be in melee or 12" range to do it.

Despite the new rules Escher in my view are not good as a dedicated melee gang, sure you'll roll Orlocks or Delaque, but you'll get flattened by Goliaths or Corpse Grinders, or Ogryns with this gang, and its your most expensive models who'll be eating the worst of it.

I'd agree with the view above to run a matriarch and a death maiden, rather than 2 death maidens so you can get some more range support, if also drop one of the Wyld Runners, or both.

I love models, but I'm not sure of their viability, I think a whip Runner with a pair of Phelynx might be the better call for your list and spend the points you save on upgrading some of your gang sisters, or getting a new gang sister with a shottie or needle rifle to give you some more dakka
 
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I'm wrong or the old limit about having only 2 Champs in the starting Gang it's gone?
Can i have for example:
1x Queen
1x Death Maiden
2x Gang Matriarch
2x Wyld Runner
3x Gang Sister

5x models with Gang Fighter rule and 4x without should be legal, i'm right?
 
Legal but risky - a bad couple of rolls, 2 deaths among your sisters and runners and you have to retire a champion if you can't afford to recruit. 20 cred juves ought to keep you safe enough, but it's something to watch out for.
 
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Isn’t the rule for Champion limits tied to Reputation and not in the gang creation section?

I can't see it mentioned in HoC - only limitations from Rep now seem to be with hangers on.

No, that used to be the case in N17 but with the release of the hardback rules reputation no longer had any effect on champion limits.

The [Edit: starting] limit still exists in Gangs of the Underhive; pg11, gang composition.
A gang founded for a campaign can contain no more than two Champions. Additional Champions may be added to the gang during the course of the campaign.
And after hunting through the Dominion campaign, the only reference it makes to composition is that gangs have to follow the rules laid out and cites the gangers-vs-others requirement as an example.

It's one of the ways mixing GotU and House books creates imbalance unfortunately.
 
I've updated my Gang idea with this:

1☆- Queen
Laspistol
Chainsword
Smoke Grenade
(Iron Will)

2□- Death Maiden
Needle Pistol
Venom Claw
(Spring Up)

3□- Gang Matriarch
Laspistol
Stiletto Sword
(Spring Up)

4□- Gang Matriarch
Laspistol
Stiletto Sword
(Spring Up)

5○- Gang Sister Specialist
Needle Rifle

6○- Wyld Runner
Wyld Bow
Smoke Grenade

7○- Wyld Runner
Wyld Bow
Smoke Grenade

8○- Gang Sister
Lasgun
Hot Shot Las Pack

9○- Gang Sister
Lasgun
Hot Shot Las Pack

1000/1000
 
Which is the exact problem.

HoB should replace GotU, but there's still the Trading Post in there so HoB isn't completely independent yet. And four house gangs that still have to use it, so it ends up being yet another issue to which there is no answer that's 100% clear, and needs to be agreed by the group you're playing with.

As the limit isn't in either of the House books and their composition rules, these latest rules mean your list is legal. But if your opponents feel it's unfair, won't play you and can't be convinced, claims of it being legal aren't much use.
So put it to discussion with anyone you plan to play against or the organisers of a campaign, and maybe have a back-up list and the extra models ready.
 
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What do you hope to achieve with wyld runners?
I ask because it seems like you are paying for progression and TP access. Neither are available in a skirmish. If you just like the models that's cool I do too... Just wondering why pick a runner over a ganger with Autogun/shotgun gor example? Also are you going with no armour at all?
 
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Regarding choosing Champions, I came up qirh a similar question in our current campaign and found that it's the current rules for founding gangs for Campaigns that limit you to a maximum of 2 Champions only at the start. While this line is omitted from the entry in House of Chains pg42 (didn't check Blades yet), I would advice to stick with it while the other gangs await their House-books - for balance sake. There is no limit to hire more champions later on, specially if you have a couple of Gangers to back you up for the Gang Hierarchy vs Gang Fighter (X) balance.

Gangers vs Gang Fighter (X): In our campaign, we followed the HoC / HoB example, and count Juves as Gangers in every gang instead of adding to the Leaders & Champions vs Gangers limit, and the one ganger able to start with a special weapon is automatically a Ganger Specialist. However, following the updated rules in HoB and HoC and expanding them for all gangs in the campaign, Ganger Specialists cannot be added later, unless via promotion or lucky rolls on the XP Table.

So, following this layout taken from the basic rulebook, House of Chains and House of Blades, you can build a starting gang for a campaign this way - as a good compromise.
- 1 Gang Leader
- Up to 2 Champion-Types. You can add more Champions later.
- Any no of Gang Fighter (X), but at least as many as models with Gang Hierarchy (X), or Gangers and Juves (if no House-Book yet).
- One regular Ganger can be a Ganger Specialist with access to special weapons, multiple equipment sets (if you use this rule) and able to buy their advances and skills. You can add more through advancing Gangers (and rolling well) or promote Juves if they have the option.