N18 House of Blades (General discussion)

I'm surprised that the Last Rites rule outright replaces the deceased model. It seems like a let-down narratively, and a little strong mechanically since you can potentially get a free WS2+ death maiden on a dead champion with a single advance. Although on the plus side, one can think of the whole process as that the death maiden cult turns up and presents the gang with the new fighter, their face covered, and claims it's their dead friend who conveniently has forgotten everything from life... So they're still only zombies if you want them to be.
When I first read the Warhammer Community article I incorrectly read it as saying your dead ganger might contribute in part to the creation of a new Death Maiden. Reading it again I see that this is wrong, but I do like the idea that the creation of a Death Maiden uses a process that would make Dr. Frankenstein proud. You may get a portion of your ganger back but you may not be able to tell exactly which portion. Still trying to balance what I want Death Maidens to be with what they are.
 
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Again for those of us who don't have the book, it seems Chemsmithing is a big deal.

Can you share the generic process of how it works
There are 3 categories:
  • Gas ammo (modifies any Gas weapons)
  • Toxic ammo (modifies any Toxin weapons)
  • Stimm (boosts your fighters)
Each categories have 10 different options. When you make the elixir, you can choose 1-3 and combine them, but they must all be from the same category. Each option has a cost, and when purchasing, you combine the cost. Each option has an individual cost in the range of 5-30. The Stimms can be used before a game or during a game by spending a Simple action. They are 'Limited', one use only. You must visit the trading post to purchase them (no need to roll rarity), counts as included in the house list, so basically Common items. Everything of this is limited to Escher gangs only.

Examples shown below are from Gaseous ammo category:
ACIDIC (20)
  • If hit, no benefits from armour or Wargear (that would normally apply against Gas) can increase the Toughness.
  • Treat Out of Action as Seriously Injured instead.
BANE (15)
If hit, use Toughness 3 (regardless of actual value). Modifiers to Toughness (from equipment) still apply.

BLACKOUT (30)
Any Serious Injury inflicted counts as Out of Action instead. The Lasting Injury is automatically ‘Out Cold’ (12-26).

BLINDING (10)
Apply Blind condition (until the End phase of the current round) when inflicting a Flesh Wound.

EXPANSIVE (20)
  • Applies to Blast (X”) weapons only.
Place an additional Blast marker, at least touching one other Blast generated by the weapon.

HALLUCINOGEN (15)
If hit, pass a Willpower check or suffer Insanity (in addition to the Toughness check for the normal effects).

LEADEN (30)
  • Applies to Blast (X”) or Template weapons only.
After resolving the attack, place a 3” Blast so that the central hole is within the area of the original Blast/Template attack.

The new 3” Blast remains until the End phase of the current round. Any fighters moving through counts as being hit by the weapon that made this attack (apply the hit after the fighter ends the current action).

LIFTIN’ (25)
  • Applies to Template weapons only.
The Template can be placed up to 6” away from the attacker. It must be positioned in a straight line (narrow end points directly towards the attacker, the wide end must then be the furthest part of the template from the attacker).
 
BANE (15)
If hit, use Toughness 3 (regardless of actual value). Modifiers to Toughness (from equipment) still apply.

BLACKOUT (30)
Any Serious Injury inflicted counts as Out of Action instead. The Lasting Injury is automatically ‘Out Cold’ (12-26).

This could be part of the "Goliath killer" that was mentioned in one of the livestreams, are all special brews limited to one use or only the stimm style ones?
 
I reckon the Goliath killer was Willpower on hit, personally.

But at the same time, Acidic Bane ChemThrower with a Chem synth auto-hits, wounds everything on a 2+, ignores all saves and wounds. Sure, it can only Seriously Injure, but that's what CdG is for!
 
I'm all for that as a CC build, although I wouldn't take Throwing Knives on a S2 model! The issue is I can take that build on a Juve for 45c and the only difference is +1M. The M is nice, but there's a lot of nice stuff for 25-35c.

Having multiple cats is probably unfeasible thanks to the 3" rule. If they manage to remove your armourless T3 W1 Wyld (somehow!) then you lose them all, and 3" means you're all in Rapid Fire range, you're a tempting target for blasts, if someone shoots a cat the Wyld has to make a Nerve check, and so on.

I always pack a Needle Rifle specialist, who is infinitely better at delivering mid-range Toxin for 85points. I suspect the Toxin arrows are the worst of the special ammo unless Chem Alchemy is really strong. Even then I think there's better options, but yeah, that might be worth it depending on Chem Alchemy
I had forgotten strength 2.

Yes that build one juve (with an auto pistol maybe) is much better.

Mv 6 was nice to have on the old juves by I can live with move 5 for a secondary melee threat.

Again the baseline wyld runners cost seems expensive compared to the 35 cred forgeborn
 
I reckon the Goliath killer was Willpower on hit, personally.

But at the same time, Acidic Bane ChemThrower with a Chem synth auto-hits, wounds everything on a 2+, ignores all saves and wounds. Sure, it can only Seriously Injure, but that's what CdG is for!
Add Blackout to that, all Seriously Injured are Out of Action instead (with no lasting injury)!
 
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House of Chains gave Goliaths the very powerful ability to play with skill sets, upgrading secondary to primary, or gaining a new primary set.
Does House of Blades have any equivalent for Eschers ?
 
There are 3 categories:
  • Gas ammo (modifies any Gas weapons)
  • Toxic ammo (modifies any Toxin weapons)
  • Stimm (boosts your fighters)
Each categories have 10 different options. When you make the elixir, you can choose 1-3 and combine them, but they must all be from the same category. Each option has a cost, and when purchasing, you combine the cost. Each option has an individual cost in the range of 5-30. The Stimms can be used before a game or during a game by spending a Simple action. They are 'Limited', one use only. You must visit the trading post to purchase them (no need to roll rarity), counts as included in the house list, so basically Common items. Everything of this is limited to Escher gangs only.

Examples shown below are from Gaseous ammo category:
ACIDIC (20)
  • If hit, no benefits from armour or Wargear (that would normally apply against Gas) can increase the Toughness.
  • Treat Out of Action as Seriously Injured instead.
BANE (15)
If hit, use Toughness 3 (regardless of actual value). Modifiers to Toughness (from equipment) still apply.

BLACKOUT (30)
Any Serious Injury inflicted counts as Out of Action instead. The Lasting Injury is automatically ‘Out Cold’ (12-26).

BLINDING (10)
Apply Blind condition (until the End phase of the current round) when inflicting a Flesh Wound.

EXPANSIVE (20)
  • Applies to Blast (X”) weapons only.
Place an additional Blast marker, at least touching one other Blast generated by the weapon.

HALLUCINOGEN (15)
If hit, pass a Willpower check or suffer Insanity (in addition to the Toughness check for the normal effects).

LEADEN (30)
  • Applies to Blast (X”) or Template weapons only.
After resolving the attack, place a 3” Blast so that the central hole is within the area of the original Blast/Template attack.

The new 3” Blast remains until the End phase of the current round. Any fighters moving through counts as being hit by the weapon that made this attack (apply the hit after the fighter ends the current action).

LIFTIN’ (25)
  • Applies to Template weapons only.
The Template can be placed up to 6” away from the attacker. It must be positioned in a straight line (narrow end points directly towards the attacker, the wide end must then be the furthest part of the template from the attacker).
When you use a chem toxin or stimm does it apply to all fighters in your gang/weapons with the required trait for that game or just one.

Also does toxin ammo work with toxic melee weapons so to speak?
 
Does it, though? If Seriously Injured becomes Out of Action but Out of Action becomes Seriously Injured, which takes priority?
Not sure they stack.
Not got book, but I'd rule:
SI die roll -> treat as OOA
OOA die roll -> treat as SI
So if you used both then swap results.
 
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House of Chains gave Goliaths the very powerful ability to play with skill sets, upgrading secondary to primary, or gaining a new primary set.
Does House of Blades have any equivalent for Eschers ?
Not as I've seen, but I haven't seen all.
When you use a chem toxin or stimm does it apply to all fighters in your gang/weapons with the required trait for that game or just one.

Also does toxin ammo work with toxic melee weapons so to speak?
As far as I can see, you pay on a one-to-one basis. So one dose per individial weapon or fighter. For Toxin, I'm not sure. "Once applied to a weapon with the Toxin trait, Toxic Ammo will change the profile and traits of the weapon as noted in the appropriate entry for the duration of that battle." Not explicitly denying Melee weapons, but it is called "Ammo"...
 
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Not sure they stack.
Not got book, but I'd rule:
SI die roll -> treat as OOA
OOA die roll -> treat as SI
So if you used both then swap results.
Acidic has 2 effects. One positive, one negative. The negative is treating Out of Action as Seriously Injured instead. Blackout only has a single effect. Treat Seriously Injured as Out of Action.

Imagine you added Acidic to some gas weapon. Then add Blackout. You pay 30 credits for it, but the effect is ignored?
 
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The game has evolved in so many different directions, I am confused about 'Chems' when there are no proper keywords. Take for instance Chem Dealer hangers-on. Can give you the chance to buy "a single dose or any Chem, or items containing Chems, such as stimm-slug stash or medicae kit, without expending any credits.".

If Escher got this, can they buy one of their alchemy elixir chems? If another gang got it, can they access Escher's alchemy elixir chems? Also, medicae is related to chems? Other references to chems clearly specify "black market chems", so I'd argue chems are now 2 separate things:
  • Chems from Black Market
  • Escher only chems
 
Acidic has 2 effects. One positive, one negative. The negative is treating Out of Action as Seriously Injured instead. Blackout only has a single effect. Treat Seriously Injured as Out of Action.

Imagine you added Acidic to some gas weapon. Then add Blackout. You pay 30 credits for it, but the effect is ignored?
Fair point. That's me falling into the trap of commenting without having the book to read the whole story, and get the bigger picture. Think in retrospect it was a knee jerk reaction to unqualified stacking/interaction of effects something that can cause arguments or imbalance in tighter rulesets.

Loving the sounds of these, looks like some fun decisions to make playing Escher but still not convinced it's going to match BoC, but I really need to shut up till I get my copy. Just need mine to just arrive already...

Looks like build 1 archer, & 1 whip/cat handler and use remaining two as Juve conversions. Unless a better weapon combo occurs to me upon reading book. Looks like I need a power hammer champ model as well, just cos that sounds cool. I had been thinking of making a power axe one just because it's different, but could look cool.