N18 House of Blades (General discussion)

[Barking Agatha]

Have you found the chymist (producing night-night) goes any way to reduce the need for a doc? I envisaged going quite heavy on night-night as a means to avoid doc fees prior to getting more rep.

No. It saves your fighters from lasting injuries or death, but it raises every fighter's rating by 25 if they have it, and it has to be re-purchased after every battle whether you ended up needing it or not. Even at 10 credits per dose (thanks to the Chymist) it ends up costing you more than the occasional visit to the doctor.

 

[Jayward]

That's a really interesting idea! I'd certainly consider it on my Leader at least, since you can never replace them.

I don't think you can afford to protect many though, either in terms of credits or of extra gang rating. 10 credits per fighter per battle is an immense drain, and 25c per fighter is a lot of gang rating.

But it might actually be a pretty good insurance policy in case you end up in one of those meat grinder scenarios or are about to get charged by CGC or something. You could stretch the credits a bit further by trying to save it for when you're in trouble instead of just applying it at the start of the battle; slightly riskier, and costs you an action, but I think you might be on to something there.

 

[daKing]

Have you found the chymist (producing night-night) goes any way to reduce the need for a doc? I envisaged going quite heavy on night-night as a means to avoid doc fees prior to getting more rep.

Taking night night on every champ seems like cheating. Best 30 credits spent tho!

 

[Aeshma]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I wasn't planning to spam night-night for everyone but I certainly thought I might keep some on my Death Maiden and Leader as standard and then have her take if needed as a risk hedge should it look like she would have to do something potentially a bit stupid ( corpse-grinder speedbump, suicide assassin ect). I thought from a gang rating perspective the odd 30 credits here and there (DM and leader ect) wouldn't have too much of an impact when balanced against the potential loss and/or serious injury of a key character or missed post battle actions due to recovery in the early stages of the campaign. @Barking Agatha, clearly you had the feeling this wasn't worth it, I assume you always rolled well on the injury table?

 

[Barking Agatha]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I wasn't planning to spam night-night for everyone but I certainly thought I might keep some on my Death Maiden and Leader as standard and then have her take if needed as a risk hedge should it look like she would have to do something potentially a bit stupid ( corpse-grinder speedbump, suicide assassin ect). I thought from a gang rating perspective the odd 30 credits here and there (DM and leader ect) wouldn't have too much of an impact when balanced against the potential loss and/or serious injury of a key character or missed post battle actions due to recovery in the early stages of the campaign. @Barking Agatha, clearly you had the feeling this wasn't worth it, I assume you always rolled well on the injury table?

No, I do think that it's worth it.

But you asked if it would save you money, and the answer is no, it doesn't. It saves lives, but it doesn't save money

I always have Night-Night on my Queen, my Death Maiden, Plasma Gun Matriarch, and Specialist. It has saved them from missing a battle or worse many times, for only 40 credits or so. I can even overheat the plasma gun without worrying about Unstable, 'Haha! Overheated plasma! I do not fear death!' That is the upside.

The downside is that, after a while, you start to notice that the other gangs are much better equipped and armed than you are, because they haven't spent their credits on consumables. I was spending 40 credits on Night-Night, 20 on a Gas Ammo cocktail, and 20 on Toxic Ammo for my Death Maiden and Queen. That's 80 credits after every battle.

So after 4 battles you have spent 320 credits on 'stuff you used up' while they have spent 320 credits on 'stuff they still have'. You are outgunned, outmatched, and outnumbered and your gang rating doesn't even reflect this, because those 4 doses of Night-Night alone add up to 100.

Trust me, I love Night-Night, and Hyper, and Wide-Eye, and Blood Rush (in theory), and a gas ammo cocktail of Acidic, Bane, and Blackout, and a nice Toxin cocktail of Paralysing and Debilitating, and they've worked very well for me, and I don't want to stop using them. But I do think that the drain on your money is a problem, and the large increase to your gang rating is also a problem.

By the way, does anyone think that a Seriously Injured fighter equipped with Blood Rush should be able to inject themselves with it?

 

[Arishat]

So, the key question is, how would you cost them:

- caryatid (for gang rating purposes)
- cephalopod spketer
- chaos familiar
- cyberarachnid
- genecult familiar
- cyber-mastiff
- hacked cyber-mastiff
- hardcase cyber-mastiff
- giant rat
- grapplehawk
- gyrinx cat
- phelynx
- phyrr cat
- sheen bird
- sumpkroc

Would love everyone's thoughts on this!

Caryatid, grapplehawk, giant rat, hardcase cyber-mastiff, hacked cyber-mastiff, genecult familiar - I have spent little time on them I would have to read and think out this bunch.
Cephalopod - there are a lot of hard to estimate elements in this pet but I think dropping 20-30 points could be the right amount.
Chaos Familiar +10 points and not stacking
Cyberarrachnid - I would have to get more experience with it but I think it is reasonably priced.
Cyber-Mastif - drop 20-30 points.
Gyrinx - I have no idea how to price random psychic powers (with most of them being bad).
Phelynx - imho 40 points would be ok but I would rather keep the price but make them more consistent with lore (consistent toxic, no reckless and then possibly 5 point increase).
Phyrr cats - I think GW prices pulverize and increased damage quite highly. I think they are overpriced by 30-40 points.
Sheen bird - they are to weird I have no idea how to price them but I think they are overpriced.
Sumpkroc - for me they seem to be almost reasonably priced I would drop 10-20 points from them though.

IMHO most pets had to pay significant points for being a loophole to go over the head count for scenarios and getting group activations without taking into account all the drawbacks they have (like leash range, going away when their handlers goes ooa) were not taken into account enough as a compensation.
Also the new models for Phyr Cats are ugly and look nothing like pre-existing images of Phyr Cats.
I suggested to my play group as a house rule for the next campaign to cut 1/4th of the price of every first pet of its kind in a gang (first phyrr for 90, further ones for 120, first phenlynx for 40, further ones for 50). I hope it will stick.

 

[BadCompany000]

I use Night-Night on my Queen, Plasma Canon Matriarch, Death Maiden and Plasma Gun Specialist. I can fire Plasma on full power without fear, my leader is protected and my Death Maiden does my heavy lifting in Close Combat. The Clan Chymist with Fixer goes a decent way to mitigate that 40 credit spend between every game.


At the moment I've saved 750 credits in my stash and a rare trading roll of 12. I've got a few idea's on how to spend the creds:

- Queen with Heavy Bolter and Suspensor to compliment my Plasma Canon Matriarch
- Khimerix with Razor Sharp Talons but have no idea how well that'll work
- Web Gun and Full Servo Harness for my Death Maiden as I've picked up the Water Guild Bond Racket in our Campaign so capturing gangers is easier and more lucrative

I prefer not to be too reliant on Gas/Toxin/Chems due to cost so use them sparingly. I’ve got a “Shooty” gang but my Death Maiden really does work and has racked up an impressive number of kills so far. This is also my first campaign with Escher having played two previous campaigns with Goliath.

 

[EAfirstlast]

On a different topic, does anyone think that Chem-Alchemy needs a little something in order to work?

I can think of two things.

a) Make elixirs not count as wargear, for purposes of crew rating, and/or...
b) Give them some kind of an 'ammo roll', so that when you use them they don't necessarily run out.

What do you think?

My issue with chem alchemy is that if you aren't using the absolute best chem combos, you're gimping yourself pretty hard because you only ever get to use them once.

And if you are behind in a campaign, it is hard to use any.

Have you found the chymist (producing night-night) goes any way to reduce the need for a doc? I envisaged going quite heavy on night-night as a means to avoid doc fees prior to getting more rep.

night night is probly my favorite chem

 

[TrexPushups]

No. It saves your fighters from lasting injuries or death, but it raises every fighter's rating by 25 if they have it, and it has to be re-purchased after every battle whether you ended up needing it or not. Even at 10 credits per dose (thanks to the Chymist) it ends up costing you more than the occasional visit to the doctor.

Seems worth it on a few specific fighters, like a death maiden or queen that tends to lead from the front.

But probaly not on more than one or two fighters and only with a chemist

 

[JezzaC]

No. It saves your fighters from lasting injuries or death, but it raises every fighter's rating by 25 if they have it, and it has to be re-purchased after every battle whether you ended up needing it or not. Even at 10 credits per dose (thanks to the Chymist) it ends up costing you more than the occasional visit to the doctor.

You don't buy it for every fighter, obviously. That's just contriving the argument in order to make it non-viable. You don't even have to buy it for all the leaders and champs every game, only when you think there's a good chance they're going to get hurt. For instance, if your opponent is Corpse Grinders and you expect your Death Maiden or Leader will be making a counter charge, then some Night Night is a good idea. There's a lot of ways to play it. Might just buy it for leaders & champs. Might include the specialist. Might buy it for some or all of those guys depending on the scenario.

And being able to go Out Cold instead of an injury isn't just about saving on the odd Friendly Doc bill. There's also the (slight) chance of instant death, the chance of the Doc failing, the injury you suffer even when the Doc succeeds, the injury you can suffer without the Doc's involvement, and even just losing the fighter for their next game. All those things are negated. 10 credits to avoid all that can be a bargain, if its an important fighter who is very likely to be taken OOA in a game.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

For what it'd worth, RAW you can't tailor your chems to the scenario. They're bought and equipped in the post battle sequence, but you don't know who/what you're playing until the pre-battle sequence of the next battle.

Of course, many people arrange their battles ahead of time so that might not necessarily be true, but nominally it's meant to be.

 

[Vonvilkee]

For what it'd worth, RAW you can't tailor your chems to the scenario. They're bought and equipped in the post battle sequence, but you don't know who/what you're playing until the pre-battle sequence of the next battle.

Of course, many people arrange their battles ahead of time so that might not necessarily be true, but nominally it's meant to be.

That said you don't have to dose up pregame.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

No, but if you don't dose up you've got useless chems inflating your gang rating when you're literally not even using them.

 

[Vonvilkee]

No, but if you don't dose up you've got useless chems inflating your gang rating when you're literally not even using them.

You can use an action during the game to dose up. Let's you see if your opponent deployed in a way you'll want to use it or not.

In the end I do agree it would have been nicer if the cost was just a bit higher and they were always on no tracking doses. I'd have settled for an expiration roll each game. <Shrugs>

 

[Ironside83]

You can use an action during the game to dose up. Let's you see if your opponent deployed in a way you'll want to use it or not.

In the end I do agree it would have been nicer if the cost was just a bit higher and they were always on no tracking doses. I'd have settled for an expiration roll each game. <Shrugs>

Of course, the down side of not tracking doses would run counter to the narcotics narrative.

Whilst the in game effects are useful, with that arbitrator approval, chem production becomes a viable income stream.

Personally, I just wish there was some mechanical consistency across the array of drug based enhancements.

 

[JezzaC]

No, but if you don't dose up you've got useless chems inflating your gang rating when you're literally not even using them.

Thing is though, this is like saying your leader's Light Carapace is just inflating your gang rating any game they don't get hit. A lot of stuff doesn't get used every game, but it is still worthwhile because when it is used it can be great value.

Wide eye is very rarely useful, but I'm happy to have a dose sitting on a key figure because the cost/gang rating increase is very small, and when the situation comes up that fighter is in a position to dominate the game.

 

[daKing]

I don’t go too crazy with the Chems but I’m always happy with what I purchase. Adding some spice to the chem thrower feels OP from time to time

 

[almic85]

Wide eye is very rarely useful, but I'm happy to have a dose sitting on a key figure because the cost/gang rating increase is very small, and when the situation comes up that fighter is in a position to dominate the game.

Surely it would be better just to buy key fighters infrasights or photogoggles one than buying wide eye multiple times if you have an opponent that is using lights out multiple times in a campaign.

It’s really just a risk reward assessment as soon as an opponent has the ability to turn out the lights your gang should start loading up on things that let them see in the dark, in the same way that if someone goes heavy on smoke grenades then you start to buy infrasights and photogoggles for key people.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

Infrasights/Photogoggles have a maximum range of 12", wide eye has no maximum.

 

[daKing]

The house of blades book has been out for 8 months. It seems like people either like the Chems or don’t. Personally I think they are fun, even if not always cost affective.

I’ll tell you this tho... liften makes a chem thrower very deadly!