As the title suggests, this thread is meant to 'collect' all our random speculations, predictions and/or wishlisting about the upcoming House of Chains 'expansion book' (and by extension what the other houses' codexes might bring).
So far the GW reveals at the Nuremberg Toy fair 2020 represents most of the information we have:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/29/new-reveals-from-nuremberggw-homepage-post-1/
The first thing we see is the usual 'hype trailer' about the House of Chains expansion book (aka Codex 'supplement' Goliaths) - we had known for 1-2 weeks prior to this that something classified as Necromunda: House of Chains was coming (due to shipment details from China to GW storehouses), but nobody at the time guessed it was an expansion book focused entirely on House Goliath (I myself expected it to be a paperback novel).
Next we get the Stimmers revealed:
From the pictures it was not immediately obvious to me, but these Stimmers appear to be on 40 mm bases (others came to the same conclusion based on the pattern visible on the base, especially since Textured Necromunda 40 mm bases have only 1 'variant' of design), meaning these new fighters are effectively Brute-sized.
When we first heard about this Plastic kit expansion for each House gang (more than 1 year ago at this point), the devs referred to new Specialist champions and Prospects, so the prevailing opinion is that these Stimmers are the aforementioned Specialist champions (which in turn would mean that each gang will get their own unique Specialist champion-type fighter), but some people think these might actually be an additional or substitute Brute for Goliaths (in 1 year the devs might have changed the terminology or their plans for this gang structure expansion). For myself I am hoping they are special Champions rather than Brutes, mainly because that would leave them open to more weapon/gear load-outs and cool possibilities for conversions and model variants (which would be in GW's interest, since it would encourage players to buy multiple boxes of this new kit).
Now, speculating about possible rules, based on the fluff blurb and the 2 pictures, we can expect the Stimmers to come with at least one special rule/skill tied to their 'fighter type' (much like all the CGC fighters), more specifically Bulging bicepts (or a unique variation of that skill, to allow the Stimmer to fire Heavy ranged weapons as normal or even just be able to carry and use 2 Unwieldy weapons at the same time), since the melee focused Stimmer appears to be holding 2 Renderisers. Admittedly the Devs could just as well have created a limited list of paired Unwieldy weapons usable only by Stimmers, but I would prefer the new giants to be able to mix and match massive weapons at will (again more for conversion possibilities than game balance - just imagine a Stimmer with 2 Power fists or 2 Heavy Rock saws!). If it turns out to be a brand new special rule for the Stimmer, I expect it might limit him to using only large unwieldy weapons (normal weapons are maybe too small for them).
The more interesting prospect however is in the Ranged focused stimmer, who appears to be armed with 2 belt fed rapid fire large calibre guns of some sort (they do look like Grenade launchers if you ignore the ammo feeds) - now this is most likely a brand new gun, probably unique to house Goliath, but we have no idea if it is just a Heavy ranged weapon that could also be used by normal Goliath champs, while the Stimmers can use them in pairs, or if it is exclusively available to the Stimmer. Personally I would prefer it if these were just 'normal' heavy weapons, which would mean Stimmers could be armed with other paired Heavy guns and (more importantly) could maybe be armed with a Heavy gun on one arm and a Heavy melee weapon on the other arm (basically treating the Stimmer as an oversized Champion with integrated Suspensors) - I find the idea of a Stimmer armed with a Heavy bolter and a Heavy rock cutter quite interesting visually (it is such an expensive load-out that it isn't really a competitive option, but it would look pretty cool if you managed to get one on the table).
From that past open day when we first heard of Specialist champions, it was also reported that these specialists did not have access to Exotic beasts or Leadership skills (which probably also means they can never take command of the gang if the leader dies - they are probably too stupid/specialised to take up that role), but on the other hand this could open them up to another Skill table. Being Stimmers they are guaranteed to have Brawn as one of their primary skill tables and hopefully they kept Ferocity as a primary as well (so we can give them Nerves of steel from the start without necessarily relying on Frenzon collars, although if you were planning to give them Frenzon anyway, you might as well chose a different starting skill in that case), while probably keeping Combat and Shooting as possible secondary skill tables (none of the other normal tables seem to make any sense for them); the only other Skill table I could see stimmers getting access to is possibly Savagery (in which case any melee stimmer should probably get Slaughterborne as their starting skill and a Frenzon collar after the first game), but it is equally as likely for specialist champs to just have the standard 4 skill tables their gang has normally access to (just removed Leadership).
Anyway, right after the Stimmers we got to see the Forge-born Prospects:
In the picture we see 4 models, 2 bodies (1 male and 1 female - First female Goliath models!!!) each in 2 poses armed with either an Arc-welder or a presumed Heavy rock saw. We know these are on 25 mm bases, so they are significantly leaner than regular Goliath gangers, making them into ideal Juve models (if the kit includes arms with pistols and cheaper melee weapons they might actually be official Juve models, but otherwise plenty of people will 'convert them with the appropriate arms/weapons to be used as Juves anyway).
Now the whole idea of Prospects is somewhat unclear - in the aforementioned Open day when they showed the gang structure diagram, Prospects were listed at the lowest level in the gang (beneath Juves), which is puzzling, given that Juves are already cheap as chips and generally trash as actual fighters, so what can you get that is 'even lower than a Juve?' That said I don't think Prospects are actually weaker or cheaper than Juves, but rather they are Ganger level fighters that are considered 'lower than Juves' just because they are not yet part of the gang. Their fluff blurb (and even the first foggy descriptions we got on them a year ago) focuses on them using dangerous weapons to impress the gang and their official models all seem to carry unwieldy weapons, which is again a somewhat puzzling 'design choice': giving a big unwieldy weapon to a Juve/Ganger is already a sub-optimal choice and if you were to give them a 100+ creds weapon (like a Heavy rock saw), it is downright foolish - we know the Devs have an erratic grasp of Game balance and 'weapon pricing conventions', but for Prospects to be an even remotely viable choice, their big weapons would need to be absurdly discounted and certainly Unstable (Reckless is in no way a sufficiently severe drawback when compared to Unstable; 90% of situations Reckless has no effect), if not an even more severe/dangerous new trait (probably reserved to Prospect weapons even in future gang expansions).
Since it seems to be a trend in recent GW development, I expect Prospects will also come with a free skill/special rule tied to their fighter class to represent in game their foolhardy bravado/recklessness and/or the gang not considering them a true member of the crew (something like 'Prospect auto-pass Cool/Nerve checks and do not cause Nerve checks in nearby allies when Injured or take OoA'). Besidees that I also expect they will have access to a limited weapon list (of these dangerously Unstable weapons) and have a way to 'evolve' into a normal Ganger (much like Juves can 'evolve' into Champs), thus losing the special rules tied to the Prospect class, but gaining acess to normal weapons and gear.
The reveal article section about necromunda ended with:
- House alliances: referencing back that same old Open day the devs there mentioned Guild alliances, Criminal alliances and Noble alliances; so far we've seen the Guild and Criminal alliances and I suspect the mentioned Noble alliances refer to these House alliances, as in allying with a particular Noble house 'branch' within the House clan (think of it as sub-factions within clan Goliath). This is complete baseless speculation on my part, but GW in the past 2-3 years has been adding sub-factions/chapter tactics/army traits to all the factions in all their game systems and I am guessing this is is the form it might take in Necromunda.
If that turns out to be true, we might have 3 or 6 Noble House Goliath alliances that shift slightly how the gang works (more in unique weapon/gear/brutes availability than special rules or traits added to the base goliath gang).
For example I can easily see a Goliath branch specialising in manufacture/forging (greater availability and/or discounts on specific weapons and armor), while a second one focuses on the use/capture/training of Slaves (granting access Ogry slave brutes) and possibly a third one focuses maniacally on Pit fighting (discounts on Melee weapons and Stimmers). Another simpler approach might be that the house branch alliance only grants a slightly different House Favour table and a few specific weapon/gear discounts and/or additions on the HWL. This way would be easier for the devs to 'pad-out the list up to 6 House alliances' even if they don't have particularly good ideas to justify options 5 and 6 on the list (6 alliances/sub-factions seems to be the target number they seem to aim for, regardless if they have enough ideas to properly flesh out those 6 options).
- Unique scenarios - It will probably be 6 'narrative' scenarios; I can think of 3 likely candidates: Champions tournament (1-on-1 short pitfights in rapid succession), Pit fighters/Slaves rebellion (the clan's slaves rebel/flee and your gang must recapture them or put them out to make an example), Forge's Sabotage (classic sabotage reworked around one of the themed terrain feature of goliaths).
- Themed Terrain features: I expect these will be a number of ideas/rules for Forge/Furnace or Fighting pit themed terrain pieces and maybe a section on how to convert/scratch build them from existing GW kits. It would be exceedingly cool if GW released a new themed terrain kit (compatible with the Dark uprising terrain/boards) with each Gang expansion (much like armies in AoS get their own Endless spells and Terrain piece when their Battle tome gets updated). Obviously for Goliaths this would be a Forge, Furnace or Smelter of some sort.
- Slave Ogryn gangs: Ok, wtf are these? I am pretty sure it won't be a gang made entirely of Ogryns, rather a gang with a Goliath overseer leader and champs and access to Ogryns as a class of special ganger (somewhat like Aberrants in GSC gangs) and maybe even human pit fighters as the regular Gangers/Juves.
These Ogryns will probably cost at least 120-150 creds each (assuming they are limited to melee only and discounted like CGC fighters), meaning such a gang would be cripplingly small/elite (and Goliath gangs are already on the lower end of starting gang average numbers) and probably totally ineffective on Sector mechanicus tables (out numbered, out-activated and probably constantly pinned down by enemy small firearms, due to the greater difficulties of hiding melee Ogryns behind sufficient cover on the approach). Unless they get discounts on par with CGC I doubt Ogryn slaves will be much good (power-gaming wise), but if they have at least interesting rules/options they will make a fantastic 'conversion project' (personally I am thinking of getting the Ogre Blood bowl team to use as the base for my Ogryn pit fighters).
Now, thinking about the possibilities for the future expansions, I expect Goliaths will end up being one of the 'less powerful' codex supplement (when compared to the other House clan supplements), partly because they are the first 'codex' released in this new paradigm, but also because Goliaths are one of the more simplistic/strait forward gangs in the game: they are big, tough and hurt in melee, so obviously their Specialist champion is just a bigger and buffer fighter and their Prospects are pretty much Heavy machinery wielding Kamikazes.
These new fighter classes don't really offer a different way of fighting to the gang, just more of the same; btw I have nothing against it, I am just pointing out Goliaths have a rather limited 'scope' in their specialisation, while other Houses might get much more unique and/or inventive Specialist champs and Prospects: I could see the Orlock Specialist champ being a burly Biker (on Bike) and their Prospects being Acrobatic bikers (Mad Max Warboys) on far less reliable dirt bikes, while Cawdor Specialist champs might be a Preacher (possibly with access to Redemptionist Skill table or Prayers) and their Prospects being fanatic Suicide bombers... Anyway I am rambling at this point, we will get a better idea of what the future House clan expansions might bring once we get the House of Chains in hand.
Anyway, what do you think? Do you agree with my random conjectures or do you have some different ideas/expectations than what I mentioned so far?
Anyway, cheers!
So far the GW reveals at the Nuremberg Toy fair 2020 represents most of the information we have:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/29/new-reveals-from-nuremberggw-homepage-post-1/
The first thing we see is the usual 'hype trailer' about the House of Chains expansion book (aka Codex 'supplement' Goliaths) - we had known for 1-2 weeks prior to this that something classified as Necromunda: House of Chains was coming (due to shipment details from China to GW storehouses), but nobody at the time guessed it was an expansion book focused entirely on House Goliath (I myself expected it to be a paperback novel).
Next we get the Stimmers revealed:
From the pictures it was not immediately obvious to me, but these Stimmers appear to be on 40 mm bases (others came to the same conclusion based on the pattern visible on the base, especially since Textured Necromunda 40 mm bases have only 1 'variant' of design), meaning these new fighters are effectively Brute-sized.
When we first heard about this Plastic kit expansion for each House gang (more than 1 year ago at this point), the devs referred to new Specialist champions and Prospects, so the prevailing opinion is that these Stimmers are the aforementioned Specialist champions (which in turn would mean that each gang will get their own unique Specialist champion-type fighter), but some people think these might actually be an additional or substitute Brute for Goliaths (in 1 year the devs might have changed the terminology or their plans for this gang structure expansion). For myself I am hoping they are special Champions rather than Brutes, mainly because that would leave them open to more weapon/gear load-outs and cool possibilities for conversions and model variants (which would be in GW's interest, since it would encourage players to buy multiple boxes of this new kit).
Now, speculating about possible rules, based on the fluff blurb and the 2 pictures, we can expect the Stimmers to come with at least one special rule/skill tied to their 'fighter type' (much like all the CGC fighters), more specifically Bulging bicepts (or a unique variation of that skill, to allow the Stimmer to fire Heavy ranged weapons as normal or even just be able to carry and use 2 Unwieldy weapons at the same time), since the melee focused Stimmer appears to be holding 2 Renderisers. Admittedly the Devs could just as well have created a limited list of paired Unwieldy weapons usable only by Stimmers, but I would prefer the new giants to be able to mix and match massive weapons at will (again more for conversion possibilities than game balance - just imagine a Stimmer with 2 Power fists or 2 Heavy Rock saws!). If it turns out to be a brand new special rule for the Stimmer, I expect it might limit him to using only large unwieldy weapons (normal weapons are maybe too small for them).
The more interesting prospect however is in the Ranged focused stimmer, who appears to be armed with 2 belt fed rapid fire large calibre guns of some sort (they do look like Grenade launchers if you ignore the ammo feeds) - now this is most likely a brand new gun, probably unique to house Goliath, but we have no idea if it is just a Heavy ranged weapon that could also be used by normal Goliath champs, while the Stimmers can use them in pairs, or if it is exclusively available to the Stimmer. Personally I would prefer it if these were just 'normal' heavy weapons, which would mean Stimmers could be armed with other paired Heavy guns and (more importantly) could maybe be armed with a Heavy gun on one arm and a Heavy melee weapon on the other arm (basically treating the Stimmer as an oversized Champion with integrated Suspensors) - I find the idea of a Stimmer armed with a Heavy bolter and a Heavy rock cutter quite interesting visually (it is such an expensive load-out that it isn't really a competitive option, but it would look pretty cool if you managed to get one on the table).
From that past open day when we first heard of Specialist champions, it was also reported that these specialists did not have access to Exotic beasts or Leadership skills (which probably also means they can never take command of the gang if the leader dies - they are probably too stupid/specialised to take up that role), but on the other hand this could open them up to another Skill table. Being Stimmers they are guaranteed to have Brawn as one of their primary skill tables and hopefully they kept Ferocity as a primary as well (so we can give them Nerves of steel from the start without necessarily relying on Frenzon collars, although if you were planning to give them Frenzon anyway, you might as well chose a different starting skill in that case), while probably keeping Combat and Shooting as possible secondary skill tables (none of the other normal tables seem to make any sense for them); the only other Skill table I could see stimmers getting access to is possibly Savagery (in which case any melee stimmer should probably get Slaughterborne as their starting skill and a Frenzon collar after the first game), but it is equally as likely for specialist champs to just have the standard 4 skill tables their gang has normally access to (just removed Leadership).
Anyway, right after the Stimmers we got to see the Forge-born Prospects:
In the picture we see 4 models, 2 bodies (1 male and 1 female - First female Goliath models!!!) each in 2 poses armed with either an Arc-welder or a presumed Heavy rock saw. We know these are on 25 mm bases, so they are significantly leaner than regular Goliath gangers, making them into ideal Juve models (if the kit includes arms with pistols and cheaper melee weapons they might actually be official Juve models, but otherwise plenty of people will 'convert them with the appropriate arms/weapons to be used as Juves anyway).
Now the whole idea of Prospects is somewhat unclear - in the aforementioned Open day when they showed the gang structure diagram, Prospects were listed at the lowest level in the gang (beneath Juves), which is puzzling, given that Juves are already cheap as chips and generally trash as actual fighters, so what can you get that is 'even lower than a Juve?' That said I don't think Prospects are actually weaker or cheaper than Juves, but rather they are Ganger level fighters that are considered 'lower than Juves' just because they are not yet part of the gang. Their fluff blurb (and even the first foggy descriptions we got on them a year ago) focuses on them using dangerous weapons to impress the gang and their official models all seem to carry unwieldy weapons, which is again a somewhat puzzling 'design choice': giving a big unwieldy weapon to a Juve/Ganger is already a sub-optimal choice and if you were to give them a 100+ creds weapon (like a Heavy rock saw), it is downright foolish - we know the Devs have an erratic grasp of Game balance and 'weapon pricing conventions', but for Prospects to be an even remotely viable choice, their big weapons would need to be absurdly discounted and certainly Unstable (Reckless is in no way a sufficiently severe drawback when compared to Unstable; 90% of situations Reckless has no effect), if not an even more severe/dangerous new trait (probably reserved to Prospect weapons even in future gang expansions).
Since it seems to be a trend in recent GW development, I expect Prospects will also come with a free skill/special rule tied to their fighter class to represent in game their foolhardy bravado/recklessness and/or the gang not considering them a true member of the crew (something like 'Prospect auto-pass Cool/Nerve checks and do not cause Nerve checks in nearby allies when Injured or take OoA'). Besidees that I also expect they will have access to a limited weapon list (of these dangerously Unstable weapons) and have a way to 'evolve' into a normal Ganger (much like Juves can 'evolve' into Champs), thus losing the special rules tied to the Prospect class, but gaining acess to normal weapons and gear.
The reveal article section about necromunda ended with:
Lets speculate about each underlined entry in order:
- House alliances: referencing back that same old Open day the devs there mentioned Guild alliances, Criminal alliances and Noble alliances; so far we've seen the Guild and Criminal alliances and I suspect the mentioned Noble alliances refer to these House alliances, as in allying with a particular Noble house 'branch' within the House clan (think of it as sub-factions within clan Goliath). This is complete baseless speculation on my part, but GW in the past 2-3 years has been adding sub-factions/chapter tactics/army traits to all the factions in all their game systems and I am guessing this is is the form it might take in Necromunda.
If that turns out to be true, we might have 3 or 6 Noble House Goliath alliances that shift slightly how the gang works (more in unique weapon/gear/brutes availability than special rules or traits added to the base goliath gang).
For example I can easily see a Goliath branch specialising in manufacture/forging (greater availability and/or discounts on specific weapons and armor), while a second one focuses on the use/capture/training of Slaves (granting access Ogry slave brutes) and possibly a third one focuses maniacally on Pit fighting (discounts on Melee weapons and Stimmers). Another simpler approach might be that the house branch alliance only grants a slightly different House Favour table and a few specific weapon/gear discounts and/or additions on the HWL. This way would be easier for the devs to 'pad-out the list up to 6 House alliances' even if they don't have particularly good ideas to justify options 5 and 6 on the list (6 alliances/sub-factions seems to be the target number they seem to aim for, regardless if they have enough ideas to properly flesh out those 6 options).
- Unique scenarios - It will probably be 6 'narrative' scenarios; I can think of 3 likely candidates: Champions tournament (1-on-1 short pitfights in rapid succession), Pit fighters/Slaves rebellion (the clan's slaves rebel/flee and your gang must recapture them or put them out to make an example), Forge's Sabotage (classic sabotage reworked around one of the themed terrain feature of goliaths).
- Themed Terrain features: I expect these will be a number of ideas/rules for Forge/Furnace or Fighting pit themed terrain pieces and maybe a section on how to convert/scratch build them from existing GW kits. It would be exceedingly cool if GW released a new themed terrain kit (compatible with the Dark uprising terrain/boards) with each Gang expansion (much like armies in AoS get their own Endless spells and Terrain piece when their Battle tome gets updated). Obviously for Goliaths this would be a Forge, Furnace or Smelter of some sort.
- Slave Ogryn gangs: Ok, wtf are these? I am pretty sure it won't be a gang made entirely of Ogryns, rather a gang with a Goliath overseer leader and champs and access to Ogryns as a class of special ganger (somewhat like Aberrants in GSC gangs) and maybe even human pit fighters as the regular Gangers/Juves.
These Ogryns will probably cost at least 120-150 creds each (assuming they are limited to melee only and discounted like CGC fighters), meaning such a gang would be cripplingly small/elite (and Goliath gangs are already on the lower end of starting gang average numbers) and probably totally ineffective on Sector mechanicus tables (out numbered, out-activated and probably constantly pinned down by enemy small firearms, due to the greater difficulties of hiding melee Ogryns behind sufficient cover on the approach). Unless they get discounts on par with CGC I doubt Ogryn slaves will be much good (power-gaming wise), but if they have at least interesting rules/options they will make a fantastic 'conversion project' (personally I am thinking of getting the Ogre Blood bowl team to use as the base for my Ogryn pit fighters).
Now, thinking about the possibilities for the future expansions, I expect Goliaths will end up being one of the 'less powerful' codex supplement (when compared to the other House clan supplements), partly because they are the first 'codex' released in this new paradigm, but also because Goliaths are one of the more simplistic/strait forward gangs in the game: they are big, tough and hurt in melee, so obviously their Specialist champion is just a bigger and buffer fighter and their Prospects are pretty much Heavy machinery wielding Kamikazes.
These new fighter classes don't really offer a different way of fighting to the gang, just more of the same; btw I have nothing against it, I am just pointing out Goliaths have a rather limited 'scope' in their specialisation, while other Houses might get much more unique and/or inventive Specialist champs and Prospects: I could see the Orlock Specialist champ being a burly Biker (on Bike) and their Prospects being Acrobatic bikers (Mad Max Warboys) on far less reliable dirt bikes, while Cawdor Specialist champs might be a Preacher (possibly with access to Redemptionist Skill table or Prayers) and their Prospects being fanatic Suicide bombers... Anyway I am rambling at this point, we will get a better idea of what the future House clan expansions might bring once we get the House of Chains in hand.
Anyway, what do you think? Do you agree with my random conjectures or do you have some different ideas/expectations than what I mentioned so far?
Anyway, cheers!
Could very well be the same with the new ones. They should really just be able to choose between weapon A,B and C, but could get access to trading post, so why not give them a kroot rifle and power fist?
