What does the new cards even mean? Are they all modifications to the original Goliath deck? It original came with 20 card, 18 generic and 8 Goliath. New deck is 16 cards. They all replace 16 of the 20 originals? So the origal Goliath deck is now in invalid? Or add to them? Is it a selection, so only some of the old cards are now invalid? Or all can be used in addition to old?
The underlined sentence to me indicates this pack is an 'Errata-ed' version of the original deck, so I would guess 9-12 re-worked 'old cards' (which would presumably invalidate their older versions) and 9-6 brand new cards (just to trigger the OCD completionists to buy yet another deck).
I have already placed my preorder in my FLGS for the book and 2x boxes of Stimmers+Prospects, but I passed on the new tactic cards until we find out exactly what cards are in there.
Ok, so 2nd edition of cards. They can resell any cards a 2nd time. They didn't mark the original cards, new cards need same name as originals to be identified as replacement.
I assume that will probably be the case, unless GW decides to add 'editions' to the cards to differentiate what is the 'most recent and valid' version of any given tactic card, or maybe go with the Shadespyre rout and create 'seasonal' tactic cards deck for each gang...
That said, if the newer versions of the cards keep the same name/title without any extra markings (at least date of print so we can differentiate N17 tactic cards and N20 tactics) it can quickly get somewhat confusing (we already have a few different tactic cards with the same name in the game).
People are still using GW's P2W cardboard when there are printable tactic cards by Xiądz in the vault? Convince your group to use these. Once we've switched to them, we never looked back.
A twin linked Krumper would be hilarious!
I wonder if the new champions will bean upgrade to an existing champion. So you have to send a champion away for d3 turns while he gets stuffed into the vats and when he comes back he’s j-j-j-jacked! Perhaps counts like he’s on stimmers permanently so there’s a decent chance his heart will just pack up and he croaks.
It contains less cards than the first pack, so they only update some of them? We may very well see some new cards also... You're right though, what we need is a proper card system, not more cards.
My guess is it contains less cards because it contains all the Goliath cards from the Underhive box set (now OOP) and the original Goliath pack, less the generic Tactics cards. Maybe they will eventually say each gang uses its own 18-card deck as a base or something? I figure we won't know for sure until the re-releases are all out.
If I remember correctly, new deck is supposed to have 16 tactics cards. Goliath currently have 13 tactics, 4 from underhive box, 12 from Goliath deck and 1 from Warhammer Community pdf. Original Goliath deck (2017) had 20 tactics, the 12 already mentioned and 8 generic. The math doesn't add up.
The 16 probably are updated versions of the 4 from Necromunda: Underhive and the 12 from the deck (assuming they forgot about the WarCo cards)
Edit: nope, it's 18 in the upcoming deck, not 16. Maybe the 17 existing one and a brand new one?
Edit: nope, it's 18 in the upcoming deck, not 16. Maybe the 17 existing one and a brand new one?
I'm counting 4 Goliath cards from Underhive box and 8 from the Goliath deck. That's 12. Then it is that 1 card from Warhammer community pdf. Are there any other Goliath cards?
We almost have enough cards to play Necromunda: the Gathering now 
I think MTG would be cheaper!
WOW there appears to be a lot incoming in this new book, the article that just popped up on the Warhammer community site gives a lot away...a lot more than I expected! Apparently we'll get a new book each quarter, so my Cawdor goodies are another 12 months away.
Sadly this process will render the gangs of the underhive book obsolescent
bookromunda is truly upon us, I'm going to need a much bigger bookshelf!
Sadly this process will render the gangs of the underhive book obsolescent
bookromunda is truly upon us, I'm going to need a much bigger bookshelf!
Some answers up on Warhammer Community
www.warhammer-community.com
Enter the House of Chains - Warhammer Community
House Goliath gangs are about to get bigger, and we don’t mean gains from a new workout routine. A new ...
www.warhammer-community.com
Ok, the Devs are going 'Full Codex treatment' with these House gang books:
- New Hanger-ons (at least one of which is Goliath exclusive: Pit trainer)
- New Noble House Alliance (House Greim-no details)
- Forge World Slaver guild entourage:
- New Genetic modifications/upgrades for Goliath fighters: 3 gene-types available: Vatborn (baseline), Natborn, Unborn each of which apparently has different gene-upgrades you can purchase for them; the one previewed (Dermal Hardening) in the article is +1 Toughness for Vatborn.
- New House exclusive Skill table, called the table of Muscle (GW, did you really have to?); the one skill previewed in the article (Walk it off) allows a fighter with it that took 2 Move actions to make a T check to discard a Flesh wound suffered.
Also the article spells out what most of us expected (and some feared) as in Necromunda will keep with the quarterly release schedule, so this whole Codex-ing process will take a year and a half to complete
Yay for Codex creep and all gangs being 'non-completely released' just like back at the start of N17...
Anyway, setting GW's aggravating business choices aside, lets try to look at the what we got:
- More customisation options than expected, in the form of Gene-craft and presumably 3 gene-types/variants of each existing fighter type (each granting different upgrade tables). That is good from a Role-playing stand point, since now you can really get down into the nitty-gritty of each fighter's background and character, but it will probably be a total mess from a 'gameplay balance' point of view, since the Devs do not have a great record for rules balance (not that they are even trying to balance things out), so I expect many of the possible upgrades will be situational or downright pointless, while a few will be undercosted or potentially even OP; we'll have to see in less than 2 weeks. Overall to me this seems like 'choose your own Successor chapter Tactics/traits' for House gangs, but I expect it will be named something different for the other houses (not Gene modifications, however each house will end up having 3 Upgrade tables for each of their fighter types).
That said, the one example in the article is simply +1 T and if it ends up costing less than 30 creds (which is currently the 'rating value' of Advancing +1 T with XPs) it will probably become an 'Auto-take', especially if you can purchase these gene-modifications after initial gang creation/hiring.
- As for the un-originally named Muscle skill table: WHY?!!? How is the Muscle table conceptually different from the Brawn table? Ok, Brawn in N17 is probably the worst of all the 'original' skill tables and the Muscle table at least has the potential Not-to-be all useless trash, but to me it would make more sense to re-work/update/upgrade the Brawn table and leave it at that (so that even other houses could see some good coming out of this book, while they wait for their own codex). Realistically I expect 1-2 decent skills in this new table, while the rest will be highly situational or bad as usual (still a possible improvement over Brawn skills).
- The Storm-welder (one of our Forge-born Prospect weapons): Rapid fire (3) with both Reckless and Unstable effectively means this gun every time it is fired has a 50% chance to take an Ammo roll (and potentially run out of Ammo or even Jam) which in turn has a 50% chance to blow the gunner up due to Unstable (so 25% chance to blow up anytime it is fired). If you consider the gunner has a base Bs 5+ and the gun is Reckless (meaning you randomly determine who is the actual primary target of the shot and it could be an enemy standing in full cover just as well as one of your own fighters, if you are not careful about your own arcs of sight), meaning you have pretty low chances of actually hitting the desired target (most likely you'll miss altogether or shoot your own side), makes this weapon somewhat puzzling (in general I do not like Unstable weapons, but this one is an active liability with much higher chances to blow up its user and even some allies than actually harming any of the enemy fighters), since I can't think what price point for both the Prospects and these guns would make me even consider ever purchasing them (only as free hires from House patronage Underdog bonus).
So far the Gene-crafting and the new Skill table have the most 'potential', while the Prospects might very well be Dead-on-arrival if they are limited to these insane Unstable guns (if they can equip normal pistols/melee weapons then they are just better Juves and will be used as such, ignoring these Unstable big guns).
What do you think?
- New Hanger-ons (at least one of which is Goliath exclusive: Pit trainer)
- New Noble House Alliance (House Greim-no details)
- Forge World Slaver guild entourage:
- New Genetic modifications/upgrades for Goliath fighters: 3 gene-types available: Vatborn (baseline), Natborn, Unborn each of which apparently has different gene-upgrades you can purchase for them; the one previewed (Dermal Hardening) in the article is +1 Toughness for Vatborn.
- New House exclusive Skill table, called the table of Muscle (GW, did you really have to?); the one skill previewed in the article (Walk it off) allows a fighter with it that took 2 Move actions to make a T check to discard a Flesh wound suffered.
Also the article spells out what most of us expected (and some feared) as in Necromunda will keep with the quarterly release schedule, so this whole Codex-ing process will take a year and a half to complete
Yay for Codex creep and all gangs being 'non-completely released' just like back at the start of N17...
Anyway, setting GW's aggravating business choices aside, lets try to look at the what we got:
- More customisation options than expected, in the form of Gene-craft and presumably 3 gene-types/variants of each existing fighter type (each granting different upgrade tables). That is good from a Role-playing stand point, since now you can really get down into the nitty-gritty of each fighter's background and character, but it will probably be a total mess from a 'gameplay balance' point of view, since the Devs do not have a great record for rules balance (not that they are even trying to balance things out), so I expect many of the possible upgrades will be situational or downright pointless, while a few will be undercosted or potentially even OP; we'll have to see in less than 2 weeks. Overall to me this seems like 'choose your own Successor chapter Tactics/traits' for House gangs, but I expect it will be named something different for the other houses (not Gene modifications, however each house will end up having 3 Upgrade tables for each of their fighter types).
That said, the one example in the article is simply +1 T and if it ends up costing less than 30 creds (which is currently the 'rating value' of Advancing +1 T with XPs) it will probably become an 'Auto-take', especially if you can purchase these gene-modifications after initial gang creation/hiring.
- As for the un-originally named Muscle skill table: WHY?!!? How is the Muscle table conceptually different from the Brawn table? Ok, Brawn in N17 is probably the worst of all the 'original' skill tables and the Muscle table at least has the potential Not-to-be all useless trash, but to me it would make more sense to re-work/update/upgrade the Brawn table and leave it at that (so that even other houses could see some good coming out of this book, while they wait for their own codex). Realistically I expect 1-2 decent skills in this new table, while the rest will be highly situational or bad as usual (still a possible improvement over Brawn skills).
- The Storm-welder (one of our Forge-born Prospect weapons): Rapid fire (3) with both Reckless and Unstable effectively means this gun every time it is fired has a 50% chance to take an Ammo roll (and potentially run out of Ammo or even Jam) which in turn has a 50% chance to blow the gunner up due to Unstable (so 25% chance to blow up anytime it is fired). If you consider the gunner has a base Bs 5+ and the gun is Reckless (meaning you randomly determine who is the actual primary target of the shot and it could be an enemy standing in full cover just as well as one of your own fighters, if you are not careful about your own arcs of sight), meaning you have pretty low chances of actually hitting the desired target (most likely you'll miss altogether or shoot your own side), makes this weapon somewhat puzzling (in general I do not like Unstable weapons, but this one is an active liability with much higher chances to blow up its user and even some allies than actually harming any of the enemy fighters), since I can't think what price point for both the Prospects and these guns would make me even consider ever purchasing them (only as free hires from House patronage Underdog bonus).
So far the Gene-crafting and the new Skill table have the most 'potential', while the Prospects might very well be Dead-on-arrival if they are limited to these insane Unstable guns (if they can equip normal pistols/melee weapons then they are just better Juves and will be used as such, ignoring these Unstable big guns).
What do you think?
