N18 House of Faith

[Maliakh]

Hello there hivers!

With potentially 6 months until the next House of ... I'd like to talk a bit about what's to come

The only thing we kind of know is that one of the two houses wouldn't have Juves, and that generally it will continue as the previous publications. Here are my guessing.


DELAQUE

-New champion: Faceless killer
I read about them somewhere and looks like they are a solid candidate to be the new champion for Delaque.

-Prospect: No idea, some kind of pseudo psykers?

-Noble Alliance: House Helmawr ?
In the Fallen House allies talk about the Imperial House being an alliance ... if not Ko’Iron, they have some ninja/killers stuff.

-Guild Alliance: The Corpse Guild.
This one is difficult, because the two remaining Guilds seems appropriate for the Cawdors: junk/raw material dealers and ''bodiesh-recyclers''. Even so, it seems more lucrative for Delaque that they have someone to offer the bodies of their murders and leave no trace.

-Skill: Something similar to Cunning, maybe some fighter swap ability, +-1 to choose mission, lights off/dark shenanigans


CAWDOR

-New champion: Maybe some kind of big deformed guy focused on melee (aberrant style)? Rat master? A little more a wish would be giant rat riders !!

-Prospect: Probably without Prospect? if they didn't have Prospects, I'd say some kind of Juve "pet" would help them get more people on the board. Maybe just pet rats.

-Noble Alliance: House Ty.
No idea, but the word Ty has some religious connotations.

-Guild Alliance: The Iron Guild.
As I wrote in the Delaque.

-Skill: I guess something RelATed to the rat theme. Some help for the Delivery bomb rat wargear, and some scrap guys thing, like improved reclaimed weapons or bullets in the pockets to help with ammunition fails.

These are my guessing, what do you think? any other idea?

 

[Maliakh]

I forgot the faction abilities!

Delaque: Something with their coats, hidden weapons. Modify their lenses will be too similar to Van Saar Cyberteknica.

Cawdor: Miracles! or relics.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

Double post?

Anyway, I'd heard that Delaque were the ones not getting Prospects. Although, as you say, the Delaque are likely getting "Faceless" as their specialist champions so expect them to have plenty of room on the sprues for prospects.
Cawdor I really have no idea what they're going to be doing on this front. Since their gangers are already "the unwashed masses", them not having Prospects would make total sense. Them having a sort of mutant specialist champion may make sense, or a beast-master (but then Wyldrunners did that first).

I doubt anyone will have a close alliance with Helmawr, just each of the six major noble houses on Necromunda.

 

[Heart of Storm]

I'd go with some kind of priest for Cawdorto whip up the masses as their new champ, maybe gives gangers localised buffs because of his fiery rhetoric?

I also think Cawdor fits no prospects better, as they accept all in their ranks and seems less likely in fluff to have people trying to "prove" themselves.

That said I have no idea what you'd do for Delaque prospects!

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

As a Cawdor player I eagerly await the update so the House can go from being the weakest GotU gang, to the weakest Book of... gang!

In all seriousness, despite Cawdor being the supposed religious zealots they are surprisingly tolerant of mutants and the malformed. I would not be surprised if they get some sort of secret mutant, maybe a post operation repentant one having cut said mutations off to replace them with crude weapons.

Some sort of faith mechanic as their customization shtick is a given I belive.

 

[Caledore]

More than anything I am praying to the Emperor that they make the Cawdor (basic) champion's skill tables modestly useful. Given that it was Cawdor's primary skill table in N95, Ferocity would be very fitting, but I'd just take the new Cawdor-specific table being primary for them, provided it has at least one useable skill.

 

[Mr. M]

I hope they do something to make the "horde strategy" more feasible for Cawdor. Perhaps something like was done with Orks in SW:A - an increase in the number of fighters they can field beyond the stated limits of the scenarios.

 

[RetMarut]

Something like sisters repentia would be a nice addition to cawdor.

 

[Commissar Yossarian]

It would be nice if Cawdor got a mechanic to represent the rabble.
This would ideally be a group up to three trash bodies that would count as 1 fighter card for the purpose of gang selection at the start of missions, activations etc. They would have to stay within 6 of each other or some such probably to not break objective type games.
This would make the gang unique, allowing them to reliably bring more bodies, while making absolute trash models stat wise work. You're not being penalized for risking one chaff model show up instead of a champ, even late in a campaign where credits matter less. 3 garbage units statistically will be relatively easy to price too, even if they have greater variance in some ways.

Failing that, maybe the pet mechanic could be recycled allowing 0-x rabble be attached to a champ/leader and brought along as equipment, but I feel that's less optimal. 1 it would interfere with the gang getting proper pets; 2 it moves the rabble a little too close to slaves rather than dedicated followers/alocytes etc for comfort; 3 it worsens the ability to consistently make the gang horde type, instead be very spikey in terms of numbers showing up per fight.

 

[MusingWarboss]

It would be nice if Cawdor got a mechanic to represent the rabble.
This would ideally be a group up to three trash bodies that would count as 1 fighter card for the purpose of gang selection at the start of missions, activations etc. They would have to stay within 6 of each other or some such probably to not break objective type games.
This would make the gang unique, allowing them to reliably bring more bodies, while making absolute trash models stat wise work. You're not being penalized for risking one chaff model show up instead of a champ, even late in a campaign where credits matter less. 3 garbage units statistically will be relatively easy to price too, even if they have greater variance in some ways.

Failing that, maybe the pet mechanic could be recycled allowing 0-x rabble be attached to a champ/leader and brought along as equipment, but I feel that's less optimal. 1 it would interfere with the gang getting proper pets; 2 it moves the rabble a little too close to slaves rather than dedicated followers/alocytes etc for comfort; 3 it worsens the ability to consistently make the gang horde type, instead be very spikey in terms of numbers showing up per fight.

Funnily enough I was thinking the exact same thing a week ago!! Amazing!!

I was thinking that they should have options for Juves and Gangers* to group into 3, making a multi-wound creature effectively. They would all have to be of the same type (possibly weapon too) but it’d give a good bonus for Cawdor.

The individuals would be poor but as a group they’d be W3 and probably A3. Obviously diminishes as fighters are removed from the game (wounds lost).

Now I suspect like you that there’s have to be a squad coherency rule (was 2” in the past) but it would t matter if they were struck by a blast as they are effectively 1 fighter on the roster being represented by three Miniatures.

Alternatively they could be mounted as a squad on a larger base. Though they’d probably have to make one.

*Leader, Champions (all types) and Prospects would have to function as single models though.

What it would mean is that a 10 Man game Cawdor could effectively bring 20+ Miniatures, e.g:

• Leader
• Champ 1
• Champ 2
• Prospect 1
• Prospect 2
• Ganger Mob 1
• Ganger Mob 2
• Ganger Mob 3
• Juve Mob 1
• Juve Mob 2

 

[SirWalterManny]

I’d thought Delaque would be the gang without Prospects, but reading above you may be right about it being Cawdor. Would then need some mechanism to grant Cawdor more bodies inn a game (cheaper hangers isn’t enough when most scenarios cap and randomise crews). But would have to be careful not to give too much of an advantage - crew size is really important early in a campaign both for winning games and growth.

I think Cawdor speciality will be faith/prayer related. And the specialist champion a religious zealot/preacher type, rather than focus on rats. I dont think mutants should find too much of a home in Cawdor if they are the house of faith... they already have the Stigg Shambler. Think that is enough to avoid them encroaching on chaos territory too much.

Delaque, beyond faceless killers or Psykers for specialist champs (seems likely) I dont know. Like the idea of prospects being perhaps pseudo psykers... or perhaps have infiltrate skill equivalent but weapons limitations.

Noble Allies - wont be Helmawr. There are 6 noble houses And 6 clan houses. But after previous discussion, yes, see Corpse Guild for Delaque and Iron Guild for Cawdor. Criminal allies: Psi-Syndica for Delaque, leaving the Rogue Factoria for Cawdor. Although that does make for an odd outlaw/law abiding ally combination for Cawdor.

 

[Mr. M]

Criminal allies: Psi-Syndica for Delaque, leaving the Rogue Factoria for Cawdor. Although that does make for an odd outlaw/law abiding ally combination for Cawdor.

Here's hoping (against all odds) that Cawdor's criminal alliance turns out to be the Redemption!

 

[Commissar Yossarian]

Funnily enough I was thinking the exact same thing a week ago!! Amazing!!

I was thinking that they should have options for Juves and Gangers* to group into 3, making a multi-wound creature effectively. They would all have to be of the same type (possibly weapon too) but it’d give a good bonus for Cawdor.

The individuals would be poor but as a group they’d be W3 and probably A3. Obviously diminishes as fighters are removed from the game (wounds lost).

Now I suspect like you that there’s have to be a squad coherency rule (was 2” in the past) but it would t matter if they were struck by a blast as they are effectively 1 fighter on the roster being represented by three Miniatures.

Alternatively they could be mounted as a squad on a larger base. Though they’d probably have to make one.

*Leader, Champions (all types) and Prospects would have to function as single models though.

What it would mean is that a 10 Man game Cawdor could effectively bring 20+ Miniatures, e.g:

• Leader
• Champ 1
• Champ 2
• Prospect 1
• Prospect 2
• Ganger Mob 1
• Ganger Mob 2
• Ganger Mob 3
• Juve Mob 1
• Juve Mob 2

If one was to go down the mob route I think you would have to be very careful to cap it in a way that avoided the skaven trap in Mordheim. Too many cheap bodies is game breaking.

I would suggest that a mob (1-3) would not count as 'gangers' for the 50% rule. That way for each mob you had on your roster you would need to have 1-3 regular gangers smoothing out the risk of a random 6 fighter scenario having 18 mob men show up.

The other restriction would be having a sever weapons list. Reclaimed auto-guns and pistols, and clubs only or something. Absolutely no blast (including grenades) or template.

Stats could be ok then, so cover still meant something against them avoiding the other Mordheim issue of maxing attacks to go fishing.

I feel this could be some fun flavour with zealots advancing as human meat shields while your better gangers closed. Would make tactical decisions interesting/fun for the opponent too.
Do you spend that frag grenade/flamer cleaning out the mob trying to tag your front line, or chance it and try to do some real damage to their gang.

The hardest balance issue would be bottle/break tests in my mind. Don't want to punish the player for using meat shields as meat shields, but if the mobs were functionally unbreakable then there's very few options to avoid getting swamped for many gangs.

Maybe use expendable and strength in numbers rules in parallel.
For bottle tests its loss of fighter cards vs starting fighter cards so you have to loose the entire mob to affect your bottle test. Then for the mob themselves they get a bonus to their broken test for each member of the mob still (either) alive/not seriously injured. This part needs play testing.

Given the rules for moving and bases I would try and avoid a degrading profile/big multi person base vs just having 1-3 punny models running around in coherency. 2" is probably good so you only risk 2 of 3 to a standard blast, but they maintain some vulnerability and have to stay together.
Finally by making them separate models the number in the mob can vary game to game as they go in and out of recovery.

 

[AgeOfSlaanesh]

Wait, what is this 'Faceless Killer' concept for Delaque?

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I really can't see Cawdor getting both the Iron Guild and Rogue Factoria as allies, as they do more or less the same. It makes sense background-wise, but it'd be really boring. I'd say Cawdor would get the Corpse Guild as them being allied to the Psi-Syndica doesn't really make sense I think - and it does make sense for Delaque!

While I'm sure Cawdor will have tactics etc. to allow them to take exra gangers, I can't really see them getting "groups" of gangers to take up single crew slots. Just breaks the game too much, I think. Instead, I could see them getting even cheaper and more access to pets (rats galore!) to get more bodies, or perhaps give the leader and/or one of the champion types the option of taking a ganger or juve as a "pet" - like the "Bodyguard" tactic in House of Artifice.

Wait, what is this 'Faceless Killer' concept for Delaque?

Delaque "Faceless Killers" have been mentioned in the other books, especially concerning the murder of Lord Hagen Orlock in House of Iron. The mentions so far have been very cursory, but it makes sense for Delaque - I'd expect a champion with some kind of falsehood mechanic.

 

[AgeOfSlaanesh]

Delaque "Faceless Killers" have been mentioned in the other books, especially concerning the murder of Lord Hagen Orlock in House of Iron. The mentions so far have been very cursory, but it makes sense for Delaque - I'd expect a champion with some kind of falsehood mechanic.

Thanks, I haven't got House of Iron yet.


Also, do you think it may be possible to have, for the gang that has no prospects, two types of gangers, in a similar way it is done with champions?
For example:
Leader,
Champion type 1,
Champion type 2,
Ganger type 1,
Ganger type 2,
Juve.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Also, do you think it may be possible to have, for the gang that has no prospects, two types of gangers, in a similar way it is done with champions?
For example:
Leader,
Champion type 1,
Champion type 2,
Ganger type 1,
Ganger type 2,
Juve.

I guess they could, though honestly I don't see the point of it. As it is now in the House books, regular Juves are already basically a second "ganger" type, with slightly different stats and equipment but otherwise the same promotion and other special rules. Not sure what adding another Ganger type for Cawdor would do, really.

 

[AgeOfSlaanesh]

I guess they could, though honestly I don't see the point of it. As it is now in the House books, regular Juves are already basically a second "ganger" type, with slightly different stats and equipment but otherwise the same promotion and other special rules. Not sure what adding another Ganger type for Cawdor would do, really.

I am thinking more for Delaque. Maybe a more specialist role, with access to unique weapon options.

Also, when the contents of the box are considered, what would be in there just 2 champions (1 per sprue) and pets? It seems they would need to include some other fighters.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I am thinking more for Delaque. Maybe a more specialist role, with access to unique weapon options.

Also, when the contents of the box are considered, what would be in there just 2 champions (1 per sprue) and pets? It seems they would need to include some other fighters.

True, unless these 2 champions are really big, or something? Or perhaps instead of Prospects the sprue includes a plastic Brute...? Honestly, it's all up in the air for now - anything is possible.

 

[Commissar Yossarian]

@Crazy Ivan *laughs* now they are definitely going to get groups of bodies, but without any thought to balance. Even mentioning game breaking seems to have the design team inflict the worst they can upon the player base.

I do agree though. An extra body mechanic is game breaking in a way that is very hard to avoid. I think that pets are so far not horrible for the game given how expensive they are. But any gang that can bring extra bodies above the scenario limit for a few credits only will clean house regardless.

My biggest problem is that having cheap 'pet' types for the champs as a core element of a gang exacerbates the issue of power spike on random draws et al.
If it was to happen I would think you would try and keep each fighter card roughly equivalent where possible. That way you can draw a fighter card of let's say 3 bodies with a CR of 75-120 or a Champ/Leader with a CR of 95-105 + Gear instead of drawing a Champ/Leader with a CR that exceeds some other 6 person crews and brings 4 bodies to the match. Tactic cards would never be a good equalizer in that scenario. You could have games of 6 vs 15 easily enough if you could take Juve type pets.

Further, the pet's approach would incentivize weirdly small gangs with a few roster members maxing out pets to maximize the advantage per above.

Regardless any attempt at a horde type gang would have to be done very carefully. Even the group coherency type rule would solve one potential problem, but exacerbate the issue of blasts being so popular etc etc.