N18 House of Iron (General discussion)

[Crazy Ivan]

Now that we’ve seen the upcoming Orlock models, and to mirror the Chains and Blades threads, can we talk and speculate about House of Iron? GW released some more info on the rules:

Arms Masters:

A90CB4ED-ADD7-45C4-93FA-4BEEF98E75B2.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

The big hammer is apparently an Arc Hammer:

84442FF2-484B-430C-89DE-88081EA2DED7.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

The model carrying it appears to be wearing a full servo harness (or two servo claws, but that seems nonsensical).

The other guy is armed with just a combat shotgun, which makes me wonder what special rules they will have. Goliath got ‘roided out, massive meatheads, and Escher got agile close combat zombies. What’s the Arms Masters’ stick? Are they just “tougher dudes”? Orlock is also the house of pretty average dudes, of course (though also undoubtedly cool)!

Wreckers:
The Orlock prospects:

403DC6BE-F65B-4BAE-8E79-A391291CD857.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

54EE658B-6300-4AB8-874C-8F1213751606.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

These have (or can be equipped with) a Jump Booster. Rules for which are:

20D5AB3B-61A9-46C8-9E5E-1FE588C90259.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

Seems like a very acceptable risk to me for the boost - I was expecting a chance to go out of action or at least receive a hit in case of a roll of 1!

It’s unclear whether they come with a Jump Booster as standard or if it’s equipment they need to buy (and so you could have Wreckers without a Jump Booster). They can also come with Demo Charges (which fits with the high-risk high-reward style for Prospects) and, so it appears, can buy hand flamers!

Finally, dogs!

279A02FE-B994-451C-93FC-31BD8CD7C0A0.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

D135C02B-7002-4863-BD0F-3A0050493B23.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

Cyber Mastiffs in the box! This makes Orlock the first gang to receive a unit in the new box that was already present in Gangs of the Underhive. Unless these are a special type of Mastiff...?

 

[reough]

Yeah the booster rule seems very generous so for, maybe they have a downside still to be revealed - wouldn't be surprised if they had a bit of a cost, or a limited amount of uses etc...

 

[Chitriel]

It’s unclear whether they come with a Jump Booster as standard or if it’s equipment they need to buy (and so you could have Wreckers without a Jump Booster).

The article specifically says about Wreckers "They all come equipped with a jump booster."

 

[El Torro]

Perhaps a silly question about the Wreckers: Are these Juves? GW seem to be implying that they are, though I haven’t seen anything to say they definitely are.

If so I guess it makes the little guys a bit more useful on their career path to becoming a Champion.

Also I guess the option to have a Juve without a Jump Pack will still be there.

 

[Thorgor]

The Wreckers are Prospects, not Juves, even though Prospects are now closer to an equivalent of the old Juves and the current Juves are more like discount Gangers.

I'd be surprised if the jump booster is not an optional wargear. Prospects so far have had exotic options (Phelynx, Bows, stupid Goliath weapons...) but they were never mandatory. They also seem to have gotten rid of starting equipment (they could be a Special Rule though, but that would be surprising).

So, the Arc Hammer is a Versatile weapon with long range 1"... I don't foresee it being an issue at all...

 

[TopsyKretts]

So, the Arc Hammer is a Versatile weapon with long range 1"... I don't foresee it being an issue at all...

They finally copied my way of writing profiles, which is far superior. If one range is B2B and another is "reach" (distance), it is weird how they inverted these! Perhaps they eventually skip listing the Melee & Versatile traits too?

 

[Jembo17]

Why can't I view any of these media items???

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Why can't I view any of these media items???

I don't know? If you want to see them all piuctures are from this page on Warhammer Community also: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/08/underhive-informant-testing-the-orlock-mettle/

 

[CaptnM]

Perhaps a silly question about the Wreckers: Are these Juves? GW seem to be implying that they are, though I haven’t seen anything to say they definitely are.

They are Orlock Prospects (see the link to WH community @Crazy Ivan shared), a.k.a. special Juves like Forge-Born and Wyld Runners. Following the current design, I guess they will have the upgrade option to get promoted to Champions during downtime, maybe they can become either a regular Champion or an Armsmaster (same as Goliath Forge-Born Prospects can become Forge Bosses or Stimmers, whereas Escher Wyld Runner Prospects can only become Matriarchs - there's another route to become a Deathmaiden tho'. )

So, the Arc Hammer is a Versatile weapon with long range 1"... I don't foresee it being an issue at all...

Essentially giving it a melee range of 1'' , wooohooo! Also, did you notice it is NOT unwieldy despite being clearly two-handed?
Either that's GW at its best or actually intentional...

What I noticed that the Arms Masters share the same body (the stance is the same on both, same as the other specialists champions so far) and you can add the Servo suit and heavier pauldrons for the souped-up version with the hammer.

I like the fact that two of three previous all-male gangs gained female models to add with the new prospects (sidenote: how GW expanded the fluff to explain female Goliath. And the artwork for female Orlock gangers in the Rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive looked ace!).

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Essentially giving it a melee range of 1'' , wooohooo! Also, did you notice it is NOT unwieldy despite being clearly two-handed?
Either that's GW at its best or actually intentional...

What I noticed that the Arms Masters share the same body (the stance is the same on both, same as the other specialists champions so far) and you can add the Servo suit and heavier pauldrons for the souped-up version with the hammer.

Perhaps the Arc Hammer not being unwieldy is explained by it always coming paired with a servo harness. Or it's an oversight, of course... The Versatile range of 1" will be fun, no doubt. First I thought it was to basically be in direct base contact with a friendly ganger who would then be in base contact with the enemy, adding another layer to "mobbing" the opponent. But then I wondered how wise it would be to use an enormous hammer on an enemy when one of your buddies is between you and said enemy... Perhaps it should've had Reckless added instead!

I like the fact that two of three previous all-male gangs gained female models to add with the new prospects (sidenote: how GW expanded the fluff to explain female Goliath. And the artwork for female Orlock gangers in the Rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive looked ace!).

I love the additions of female minis in these gangs; in particualr for Orlock these should've come in the original box already and I hope they will add more female Orlocks through Forgeworld (assuming we'll see a "FW champion set" like we're expecting for the Escher). In the end I expect only Cawdor will remain exclusively male, as they've made it part of the fluff that Cawdor practice separation of the sexes... Basically if you want female Cawdor you'd need the entire gang to be female (which would be cool, but it's unlikely GW will produce that).

 

[CaptnM]

Perhaps the Arc Hammer not being unwieldy is explained by it always coming paired with a servo harness. Or it's an oversight, of course...

This would totally make sense, since the model is designed that way.

The Versatile range of 1" will be fun, no doubt. First I thought it was to basically be in direct base contact with regular ganger who would then be in base contact with the enemy, adding another layer to "mobbing" the opponent.

Ah, I kinda missed that point, great tactic indeed.

But then I wondered how wise it would be to use an enormous hammer on an enemy when one of you buddies is between you and said enemy... Perhaps it should've had Reckless added instead!

Given that real melee combat is most likely more dynamic the static way we place our minis, I 'm fine with the hammer not having reckless. We can assume that the ArmsMaster waits a moment for the meatshield to get out of his way before he brings the hammer home.

I love the additions of female minis in these gangs; in particualr for Orlock these should've come in the original box already and I hope they will add more female Orlocks through Foreworld (assuming we'll see a "FW champion set" like we're expecting for the Escher). In the end I expect only Cawdor will remain exclusively male, at they've made it part of their fluff that Cawdor practice separation of the sexes... Basically if you want female Cawdor you'd need the entire gang to be female (which would be cool, but it's unlikely GW will produce that).

Agreed on all points. Female Cawdor would make a great gang for FW to produce tho'. Or maybe use Repentias with Cawdor weapons?

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Given that real melee combat is most likely more dynamic the static way we place our minis, I 'm fine with the hammer not having reckless. We can assume that the ArmsMaster waits a moment for the meatshield to get out of his way before he brings the hammer home.

True, that does make sense!

Agreed on all points. Female Cawdor would make a great gang for FW to produce tho'. Or maybe use Repentias with Cawdor weapons?

There's actually someone on Yaktribe who made female Cawdor by adding repentia heads to Cawdor bodies - looks good because with the Cawdor being so scrawny and wearing voluminous robes you can't really see what gender the model is apart from the head anyway. Looks great.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Essentially giving it a melee range of 1'' , wooohooo! Also, did you notice it is NOT unwieldy despite being clearly two-handed?
Either that's GW at its best or actually intentional...

The previewed profile is inconsistent with how ranges are normally written. E should be in long range, Versatile range should be in short range. Having "bugs" like this in previews is nothing new and doesn't look promising for the quality of the rest of the book.

The weapon sure looks "unwieldy", I bet GW dropped it because they only intend this weapon for this new champion fighter equipped with servo-harness. So their explanation is, since the fighter is already equipped with servo-harness, that would negate the effects of unwieldy.

Similar to how unwieldy (and taking 2 weapon slots) is dropped for the assault cannon. It can only be wielded by a big massive iron automata which is able to ignore the effects of the unwieldy traits.

Remains to be seen if however other fighters can get their hands on the new arc hammer, which would potentially be a problem.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Now that we’ve seen the upcoming Orlock models, and to mirror the Chains and Blades threads, can we talk and speculate about House of Iron? GW released some more info on the rules:

Arms Masters:

A90CB4ED-ADD7-45C4-93FA-4BEEF98E75B2.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

The big hammer is apparently an Arc Hammer:

84442FF2-484B-430C-89DE-88081EA2DED7.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

The model carrying it appears to be wearing a full servo harness (or two servo claws, but that seems nonsensical).

The other guy is armed with just a combat shotgun, which makes me wonder what special rules they will have. Goliath got ‘roided out, massive meatheads, and Escher got agile close combat zombies. What’s the Arms Masters’ stick? Are they just “tougher dudes”? Orlock is also the house of pretty average dudes, of course (though also undoubtedly cool)!

Wreckers:
The Orlock prospects:

403DC6BE-F65B-4BAE-8E79-A391291CD857.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

54EE658B-6300-4AB8-874C-8F1213751606.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

These have (or can be equipped with) a Jump Booster. Rules for which are:

20D5AB3B-61A9-46C8-9E5E-1FE588C90259.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

Seems like a very acceptable risk to me for the boost - I was expecting a chance to go out of action or at least receive a hit in case of a roll of 1!

It’s unclear whether they come with a Jump Booster as standard or if it’s equipment they need to buy (and so you could have Wreckers without a Jump Booster). They can also come with Demo Charges (which fits with the high-risk high-reward style for Prospects) and, so it appears, can buy hand flamers!

Finally, dogs!

279A02FE-B994-451C-93FC-31BD8CD7C0A0.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

D135C02B-7002-4863-BD0F-3A0050493B23.jpeg

• Crazy Ivan
• Sep 8, 2020

Cyber Mastiffs in the box! This makes Orlock the first gang to receive a unit in the new box that was already present in Gangs of the Underhive. Unless these are a special type of Mastiff...?

I think you may have the album you uploaded these pictures in set to privately. I've done it before.

The Arms Masters will probably come with a better version of Munitioneer, or something to help with mental characteristic tests.

I really hope that there are alternate Prospect torsos without the jump booster strap and chest plate... but I doubt it will happen. It'll be such a missed opportunity for these models to be more versatile as Juves and Prospects without the probably expensive gear. Expensive equipment of questionable usefulness is holding these types back.

I'm pretty stoked about the cyber mastiffs, getting models for them has been really expensive for many many years!

The Wreckers are Prospects, not Juves, even though Prospects are now closer to an equivalent of the old Juves and the current Juves are more like discount Gangers.

I'd be surprised if the jump booster is not an optional wargear. Prospects so far have had exotic options (Phelynx, Bows, stupid Goliath weapons...) but they were never mandatory. They also seem to have gotten rid of starting equipment (they could be a Special Rule though, but that would be surprising).

So, the Arc Hammer is a Versatile weapon with long range 1"... I don't foresee it being an issue at all...

Versatile 1 seems really cool, a nice bonus for melee Orlock to avoid reactions from melee monsters (and with 3 ws3+ (I assume) str8, -1ap, D3 attacks, you have avoid good chance to take anything down! But then... consider the 1" rule! So I guess after the attack action, the models will need to be separated? Or can you count as being engaged and still follow the 1" rule if you're exactly 1"away?

Perhaps the Arc Hammer not being unwieldy is explained by it always coming paired with a servo harness. Or it's an oversight, of course... The Versatile range of 1" will be fun, no doubt. First I thought it was to basically be in direct base contact with a friendly ganger who would then be in base contact with the enemy, adding another layer to "mobbing" the opponent. But then I wondered how wise it would be to use an enormous hammer on an enemy when one of your buddies is between you and said enemy... Perhaps it should've had Reckless added instead!


I love the additions of female minis in these gangs; in particualr for Orlock these should've come in the original box already and I hope they will add more female Orlocks through Forgeworld (assuming we'll see a "FW champion set" like we're expecting for the Escher). In the end I expect only Cawdor will remain exclusively male, as they've made it part of the fluff that Cawdor practice separation of the sexes... Basically if you want female Cawdor you'd need the entire gang to be female (which would be cool, but it's unlikely GW will produce that).

I thought it was weird that the Arc Hammer lacked unwieldy and -1 accuracy, like the 2 handed hammer that this is just a larger version of. Maybe it comes equipped with an integral suspensor, I mean how else is anyone without a servo harness going to lift the thing?

True, that does make sense!

There's actually someone on Yaktribe who made female Cawdor by adding repentia heads to Cawdor bodies - looks good because with the Cawdor being so scrawny and wearing voluminous robes you can't really see what gender the model is apart from the head anyway. Looks great.

Do you have a link to that? I was already eyeing Sisters Repentia with head swaps for a Sisters of Sigmar warband, so I would have the heads to spare.

 

[Thorgor]

But then... consider the 1" rule! So I guess after the attack action, the models will need to be separated? Or can you count as being engaged and still follow the 1" rule if you're exactly 1"away?

Eeyup, that's exactly what I had in mind. Versatile 1" and the 1" rule do not mix well. For instance, can you stop a charge exactly 1" away from your target so that you can use the Versatile weapon but are not obligated to reach base-to-base contact? Or is being 1" away from something already being within 1" of that thing?
So. Much. Fun.

 

[Orngog]

Seems quite simple to me, though i could be wrong as my orlocks tend to squash folk before getting into h2h. at 1" youre not engaged at all, you're making a shooting action. I wouldnt be surprised to see a new action for just this reason.

Does anybody else wonder if that servo harness is seperate from the body? The legs on the two arms masters look very similar...

 

[CaptnM]

The previewed profile is inconsistent with how ranges are normally written. E should be in long range, Versatile range should be in short range. Having "bugs" like this in previews is nothing new and doesn't look promising for the quality of the rest of the book.

As far as I know, you are mistaken there. In Gangs of the Underhive, non-versatile melee weapons list E as L range, versatile weapons list E as S range and L noting the X'' inches for versatile.

The weapon sure looks "unwieldy", I bet GW dropped it because they only intend this weapon for this new champion fighter equipped with servo-harness. So their explanation is, since the fighter is already equipped with servo-harness, that would negate the effects of unwieldy.

I reckon you're onto something there, even tho' RAW (GotU pg 137) Suspensors only work for ranged weapons explicitly. But I concur that this could be the reasoning, since GW writers have been writing weird stuff about unwieldy weapons lately, see. Escher's new Finesse skill Sommersault or Ogryns having access to suspensors even tho' they have no access to unwieldy ranged weapons ever.

Eeyup, that's exactly what I had in mind. Versatile 1" and the 1" rule do not mix well. For instance, can you stop a charge exactly 1" away from your target so that you can use the Versatile weapon but are not obligated to reach base-to-base contact? Or is being 1" away from something already being within 1" of that thing?
So. Much. Fun.

Good question, and one that pertains to many aspects of the game: I couldn't see an answer for that in the rulebook: If 2 models are exactly X inches apart, are they within X'' of each other, or does within mean X-0.01* inches? e.g. for the purposes of determining a 6'' effect or a 6'' inch short range on a pistol, must the affected model be a maximum of 5.999999* inches apart from the model originating the effect or do the 6'' count as being within?

 

[Thorgor]

Seems quite simple to me, though i could be wrong as my orlocks tend to squash folk before getting into h2h. at 1" youre not engaged at all, you're making a shooting action. I wouldnt be surprised to see a new action for just this reason.

Versatile lets you make close combat attacks at range, that's the whole point of that Trait.

The issue here is that the 1" rule means two Standing enemy fighter can't normally be within 1" of each other (they need to be either in b2b contact or further apart), but a weapon with Versatile and long range 1" lets you make close combat attacks without being in b2b contact provided you are within 1" of your target...

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I think you may have the album you uploaded these pictures in set to privately. I've done it before.

That may have been it, thanks! Wasn't aware this was an option, but I've updated the settings of that album. Hope it's all visible now.

Do you have a link to that? I was already eyeing Sisters Repentia with head swaps for a Sisters of Sigmar warband, so I would have the heads to spare.

Sadly, not yet! I've been searching but I think the thread hasn't been updated in a while. Will continue to have a look.

Does anybody else wonder if that servo harness is seperate from the body? The legs on the two arms masters look very similar...

I'm willing to bet the harness is a separate bit you can attach to that body (and probably only that body) - seems in line for what we've seen for these kits so far.

Versatile lets you make close combat attacks at range, that's the whole point of that Trait.

The issue here is that the 1" rule means two Standing enemy fighter can't normally be within 1" of each other (they need to be either in b2b contact or further apart), but a weapon with Versatile and long range 1" lets you make close combat attacks without being in b2b contact provided you are within 1" of your target...

I'm thinking the intent here might have been like for spears in the Middle Earth SBG: allow you to make attacks "over the head" of a friendly model directly between you and the enemy you're engaging. Would make sense considering these Arms Masters are specifically called out as gang enforcers, i.e. directly working with the other gangers, unlike the previous "Specialist Champions", the Stimmer and Death Maiden, who are both straight-up (close combat) monsters who in the background probably do not work well with the rest of the gang.

EDIT:
@Jacob Dryearth, found the thread with female Cawdor: https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/back-to-necromunda.10343/ Creator is @CookieMountaineer

 

[Unslain]

I agree with @Chitriel about the jump boosters being automatically included.

They all come equipped with a jump booster. Our informant has managed to get hold of the specifications of these devices and, apparently, they can be overcharged to give an even bigger boost to the wearer, but this doesn’t come without a risk.

I suspect they'll actually be a special rule represented as equipment, such that they don't carry over when prospects become champions.
I'd also note that what we have been shown is the rule for the overcharged jump booster - whether the standard usage increases charge range or 'just' let's them perhaps ignore vertical movement, isn't revealed. But the implication is that they get a bonus of some kind without the risky roll of a natural one.

But then there's something that's never been addressed to my knowledge; does a "natural one" on a d3 constitute 1-2 on a d6 or only a 1? We've always played it as the former but then there are enough three-sided dice in the dice bags of my lot, that we rarely convert a d6 result.

The previewed profile is inconsistent with how ranges are normally written. E should be in long range, Versatile range should be in short range.
[...]
The weapon sure looks "unwieldy", I bet GW dropped it because they only intend this weapon for this new champion fighter equipped with servo-harness. So their explanation is, since the fighter is already equipped with servo-harness, that would negate the effects of unwieldy.

Um, my copies of GotU and HoC both put "E" in the long range column unless it's a Versatile weapon, in which case S=E and L=x". My GotU is a later printing though and while I'd be surprised if GW made an update without publicising it, it's not impossible. The layout you describe does ring a bell for the Underhive and gang war books however.

I agree the arc hammer is likely to be servo-harness only (at which point inbuilt suspensors would be redundant) but I expect the absence of Unwieldy to be just another error, that is bound to turn up in the book as well. "Arc" puts me in mind of electricity so I'm sort of surprised that it doesn't have the Shock trait.

Eeyup, that's exactly what I had in mind. Versatile 1" and the 1" rule do not mix well. For instance, can you stop a charge exactly 1" away from your target so that you can use the Versatile weapon but are not obligated to reach base-to-base contact? Or is being 1" away from something already being within 1" of that thing?
So. Much. Fun.

Good question, and one that pertains to many aspects of the game: I couldn't see an answer for that in the rulebook: If 2 models are exactly X inches apart, are they within X'' of each other, or does within mean X-0.01* inches? e.g. for the purposes of determining a 6'' effect or a 6'' inch short range on a pistol, must the affected model be a maximum of 5.999999* inches apart from the model originating the effect or do the 6'' count as being within?

The convention across most wargames I have played, is that "within" is up to and including the specified distance. A fair number of other publishers explicitly state it though, while GW tends to assume - in the case of Necromunda, it's possibly the disadvantage of the game being written by long-term players of GW's game ranges, who have fallen into the trap of forgetting the convention is not actually instinctive. I think this is a convention that 9th ed 40k addresses explicitly now but with the separation of design departments now, I dare not hope yet that the logic will make it over into the next Necromunda rulebook.

It's arguably just the wording of that first sentence of the 1"Rule that causes the problem; there would be less confusion if only it was written as, "Fighters cannot move to less than 1" away from an enemy fighter (etc.)"
Both paragraphs of The 1" Rule section do each state in their final sentence that the moved model ends up 1" away from the relevant enemy fighter(s) though, at which point they are in range for a 1" Versatile weapon - not elegantly written but there all the same.

Does anybody else wonder if that servo harness is seperate from the body? The legs on the two arms masters look very similar...

Given the duplicated frame set up that SG is limited to and that the arms master torso and legs are identical but for the servo elements, the servo-harness will have to be pieces that are added on in my opinion. It will almost certainly be contoured to fit only the arms master body though, so will need a fair bit of work to adapt for any other model unfortunately.



As for what else we might see in House of Iron, Orlocks now seem to me to focus on specialising via equipment and strong discipline (with the good leadership scores). If any specialist champion will retain Group Activation, I feel it will be the arms master. That line in the article about them keeping other gangers in line might be a fluff reasoning for them not to keep it though - they're just plain disliked. I could see an aura ability to re-roll nerve tests fitting them well. The name links to a keeper of the armoury, but a broad weapons list would go against the idea of the being specialist in any way and make standard champions less useful. I suspect they're going to be intended for a melee and close support role given the weapon options we see. Maybe they'll start with a third wound like the gang leader.

I'm expecting a new skill category centred on teamwork and boosting other fighters, with the mantra about gang before house. I can't decide whether an overseer-like skill to essentially transfer a single AP to another fighter would be as filthy as the current one (maybe not if a Basic action), but I hope the design team have had more imagination than I in this regard. I suppose they might lean in to the durability aspect, with ready access to the Ferocity skills and Medicae already.

I'm wondering if the Orlock equivalent to gene-smithing and chem-alchemy might be DIY solid ammo or even modifying guns. The first feels unimaginative when that's largely what chem-alchemy does for toxin, and the second potentially a nightmare to keep track of unless a weapon can only be modified at purchase. And it wouldn't be headache-free even then.

As has ever been the Orlock weakness, being the baseline gang leaves them so undeveloped at the moment that they could be taken in almost any direction still.