N18 House of Iron (General discussion)

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

Yikes. The Orlock plastic box is terrible for weapon choice.
Escher, at least get a good 10 special weapons, so there is a bit of wiggle room there.
Orlocks will basically have either plasma, melta or most likely grenade launchers ... with heavy bolter/stubber .... very limited.
As the rest of their choices are bad.. harpoon launcher and heavy flamer are just trash,

Im fine with restricting gangers to house lists, though think specialists should also have access to TP weapons.

Most gangs are going to get quite boring if I can only choose between a very tiny pool of weapons.

What special weapons come in the Escher box..?

The chem thrower? And let's be glad that bolters have stayed on the basic list even though they are not easy to actually buy compared to autoguns and combat shotguns.

I think the new orlocks are pretty damn tasty.

 

[Jembo17]

Yikes. The Orlock plastic box is terrible for weapon choice.
Escher, at least get a good 10 special weapons, so there is a bit of wiggle room there.
Orlocks will basically have either plasma, melta or most likely grenade launchers ... with heavy bolter/stubber .... very limited.
As the rest of their choices are bad.. harpoon launcher and heavy flamer are just trash,

Im fine with restricting gangers to house lists, though think specialists should also have access to TP weapons.

Most gangs are going to get quite boring if I can only choose between a very tiny pool of weapons.

Is the heavy flamer really that bad...?

 

[Vonvilkee]

Is the heavy flamer really that bad...?

Yes

 

[EAfirstlast]

Is the heavy flamer really that bad...?

the very worst weapon in the game in fact!

 

[Galtarr]

the very worst weapon in the game in fact!

I thought the rivet cannon took that spot?
Heavy flamer is massively over costed and a bad choice because it adds little over a regular flamer, with cost and needing suspensors thrown in. But if you ended up with one it would still be effective no? (Albeit in short range on ZM like any other template)

 

[JawRippa]

I thought the rivet cannon took that spot?
Heavy flamer is massively over costed and a bad choice because it adds little over a regular flamer, with cost and needing suspensors thrown in. But if you ended up with one it would still be effective no? (Albeit in short range on ZM like any other template)

Krumper is serviceable. It is pretty unimpressive, definitely on the bad/overcosted side. But it does not approach the legendary Heavy flamer levels of bad. It is basically like a really nerfed bolter in terms of range.

I think that one of the worst weapons in the game is the escher prospect whip. It costs 15 credits, has versatile but locks you for S2 hits forever, because for whatever reason it does not use user's strength.

 

[MrAndersson]

XD What good special weapons are escher getting that orlock don't again? The needle rifle?

A 55 cred Grenade launcher.

 

[Galtarr]

Krumper is serviceable. It is pretty unimpressive, definitely on the bad/overcosted side. But it does not approach the legendary Heavy flamer levels of bad. It is basically like a really nerfed bolter in terms of range.

I think that one of the worst weapons in the game is the escher prospect whip. It costs 15 credits, has versatile but locks you for S2 hits forever, because for whatever reason it does not use user's strength.

Fair points - but I'll see your prospect whip and raise you a scare gas grenade.

As a grenade it is short range, grenade trait is worse than scarce, for ammo. More expensive than choke gas with less chance of meaningful effect. The meaningful effect it has does no damage is often short lasting, easily countered, the weapon doesn't even pin.. both choke and photon are cheaper and more effective in what they do.

Though with the selection of near obsolete or redundant weapons & ammo this contest is likely to go round in circles. Most of which are made redundant by having a better option available for equivalent or usually less..

 

[TopsyKretts]

Scare gas grenades is miles better than plasma grenade though.

 

[MrAndersson]

Scare gas grenades is miles better than plasma grenade though.

Everything is better than plasma grenades.

 

[Galtarr]

Yep, you win.

 

[EAfirstlast]

A 55 cred Grenade launcher.

Oh nooooo, you have to pay a bit more for a grenade launcher. I guess you'll have to satisfy yourself with giving out bolters and combat shotguns to everyone

 

[MrAndersson]

Oh nooooo, you have to pay a bit more for a grenade launcher. I guess you'll have to satisfy yourself with giving out bolters and combat shotguns to everyone

You asked what good special weapon Escher had access to that Orlock didn't. The 55 cred Grenade launcher is the answer. You can't deny that it's strictly better than a 65 cred one.

Combat shotguns aren't really a thing. They are ok, at best.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Combat shotgun is the heavy flamer at half cost and suspensor included...

 

[Thorgor]

Combat shotgun is the heavy flamer at half cost and suspensor included...

Which only serves to show how much the heavy flamer sucks. Also, that special ammo is limited so may cost you a lot in the long run.
Combat shotguns would be ok if they didn't have to compete with boltguns in the same price bracket.

 

[JawRippa]

As a grenade it is short range, grenade trait is worse than scarce, for ammo. More expensive than choke gas with less chance of meaningful effect. The meaningful effect it has does no damage is often short lasting, easily countered, the weapon doesn't even pin.. both choke and photon are cheaper and more effective in what they do.

Also Scare grenade sucks at its intended job - countering bunched up enemies. Because it is a Nerve test which is easier to pass when grouped together

Scare gas grenades is miles better than plasma grenade though.

Oof, bringing plasma grenades is just dirty... Wait! They are not a weapon but a wargear! The domination of Heavy flamer continues!

 

[MrAndersson]

Combat shotguns would be ok if they didn't have to compete with boltguns in the same price bracket.

Exactly. They are more expensive, have shorter range and no AP. Neither knockback nor that ridiculous strength 2 template can compensate for that. Not even close.

 

[JawRippa]

Exactly. They are more expensive, have shorter range and no AP. Neither knockback nor that ridiculous strength 2 template can compensate for that. Not even close.

I think that GW is overvaluing automatic hits on templates in general. Without firestorm ammo combat shotgun is more of a sidegrade to a common shotgun, which is cheaper. Long range makes a ton of difference.

 

[EAfirstlast]

You asked what good special weapon Escher had access to that Orlock didn't. The 55 cred Grenade launcher is the answer. You can't deny that it's strictly better than a 65 cred one.

Combat shotguns aren't really a thing. They are ok, at best.

Combat shotguns have been among the best price for performance weapon I have encountered in zone mortalis. Not everyone is playing every game two feet apart with gangs of snipers. And if you are, you really should sprinkle in a game of two of mortalis, cause endless snipe fests suck

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

Combat shotguns have been among the best price for performance weapon I have encountered in zone mortalis. Not everyone is playing every game two feet apart with gangs of snipers. And if you are, you really should sprinkle in a game of two of mortalis, cause endless snipe fests suck

I agree, rapid fire Knock back into a wall doing additional damage can be brutal. Potential for 9 damage. And better ammo roll than a bolter.

Yes the raw math says a bolter is better in more situations but who cares. The words rapid fire shotgun is just too cool