N18 House of Iron (General discussion)

[KA7777]

Combat shotguns have been among the best price for performance weapon I have encountered in zone mortalis. Not everyone is playing every game two feet apart with gangs of snipers. And if you are, you really should sprinkle in a game of two of mortalis, cause endless snipe fests suck

Ok. Do exactly what you're doing with the combat shotgun, but use a boltgun instead. Thank us later.

Edit: Combat shotguns are fine, btw. You can use them and real confident that they'll positively affect the game. The actual issue is, as it always is, boltguns being too cheap.

 

[EAfirstlast]

And if you are playing any ZM at all, orlock bullet merchant makes firestorm truly disgusting. It was already brutal since it only needs to fire a couple times a game to ruin the opponent, but eliminating the limited drawback? Uff

 

[Atom-Cat]

An Orlock specialist has access to
Flamer, Grenade Launcher, Plasma and Melta. That’s it.
Escher specialist get all of the above aswell as Long Las, needle rifle, acid sprayer, and I think 2-3 kinds of combi weapon.

my most annoying thing is pre HoI I had built a figure carrying a webgun. Which before I could have equipped on a ganger/specialist where it is best used... and webguns > flamers.

I’m not saying Eschers are op. That’s still Goliath and I’m guessing Van Saar in a few weeks.

but why limit custom options. I get the need to stop spamming weapons and cheese builds. But there are about 20 special weapons, variety is more fun etc.

 

[Minotaurus]

An Orlock specialist has access to
Flamer, Grenade Launcher, Plasma and Melta. That’s it.
Escher specialist get all of the above aswell as Long Las, needle rifle, acid sprayer, and I think 2-3 kinds of combi weapon.

my most annoying thing is pre HoI I had built a figure carrying a webgun. Which before I could have equipped on a ganger/specialist where it is best used... and webguns > flamers.

I’m not saying Eschers are op. That’s still Goliath and I’m guessing Van Saar in a few weeks.

but why limit custom options. I get the need to stop spamming weapons and cheese builds. But there are about 20 special weapons, variety is more fun etc.

And harpoon launcher, heavy bolter, heavy stubber and... well we will not count the last one but really, access to heavy weapons in specialists is an advantage

 

[almic85]

Escher specialist get all of the above aswell as Long Las, needle rifle, acid sprayer, and I think 2-3 kinds of combi weapon.

Most of these options are trash though. They look cool and seem like they should be fun to use, but most just aren’t very good.

Long las isn’t on their list ( and is crap compared to a lasgun with shot pack anyway)
needle rifle is crap (though marginally more useful now with chems)
Acid sprayer is crap (though slightly less crap with chems)
Combi weapons are crap (except the Van Saar las/plas combo).

So Escher have access to an additional 5-6 special weapons that are all not worth taking.

The only thing that Escher do get that is better than Orlock is a cheaper grenade launcher.

In comparison Orlocks specialists can take heavy bolters.

 

[Atom-Cat]

Only 2/4 of their heavy weapons are any good. 13 heavy weapons in the game but your specialist can useaccess only 4... 2 of which may aswell not exist.
Just seems a massive waste of time building a huge trading post... and then making it largely irrelevant.

I get that some of the special weapons are average or sub par, but still fun to use.. and gives you options.

I’ve got the creds. I’ve got the specialist... but I can’t buy him a new gun?

and heavy weapons on a specialist... seems like a massive points sink... 200 credits for a HB w suspensor on a guy most gangs can squish with one hit.... and also the risk of being a gang spamming heavy bolters... as it’s one of your only options.

 

[MrAndersson]

Just seems a massive waste of time building a huge trading post... and then making it largely irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, though. Half of your gang can still use every single weapon in there.

If something is making weapons irrelevant, it's the horrible balancing of their costs.

 

[Blarg88]

I don't really see the problem with the trading post if the limited weapons is that universally disliked then just agree with your group to ignore it.

 

[Atom-Cat]

Fair point. I’m totally happy house ruling away certain nonsensical elements.

 

[EAfirstlast]

Only 2/4 of their heavy weapons are any good. 13 heavy weapons in the game but your specialist can useaccess only 4... 2 of which may aswell not exist.
Just seems a massive waste of time building a huge trading post... and then making it largely irrelevant.

I get that some of the special weapons are average or sub par, but still fun to use.. and gives you options.

I’ve got the creds. I’ve got the specialist... but I can’t buy him a new gun?

and heavy weapons on a specialist... seems like a massive points sink... 200 credits for a HB w suspensor on a guy most gangs can squish with one hit.... and also the risk of being a gang spamming heavy bolters... as it’s one of your only options.

And escher get none of them

Orlock specialists aren't actually any more limited than escher ones. They have nearly the same number of awful choices and nearly the same numbers of actually worthwhile choices. Escher just get a 10 credit discount to, like, the best choice

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

Orlock gangers get bolters and combat shotguns, whatever the single Escher specialist may be able to take extra it's never going to equal that.

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

Orlock gangers get bolters and combat shotguns, whatever the single Escher specialist may be able to take extra it's never going to equal that.

And wreckers, don't forget wreckers.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

And wreckers, don't forget wreckers.

Excellent point, Wreckers absolutely blow Wyldrunners right out of the sump.

 

[Vegeta365]

I haven’t played for a while (a first since N17) so whilst I have the 3 new books (awaiting Van Saar) I have not played any games eith them, and only read through the Orlock one a decent amount.

when looking at the army list I can’t actually see a limit any more for champions. Does this exist somewhere else or can you really purchase 4 champions with your leader as long as you have 5 Juves/wreckers/gangers?

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I haven’t played for a while (a first since N17) so whilst I have the 3 new books (awaiting Van Saar) I have not played any games eith them, and only read through the Orlock one a decent amount.

when looking at the army list I can’t actually see a limit any more for champions. Does this exist somewhere else or can you really purchase 4 champions with your leader as long as you have 5 Juves/wreckers/gangers?

I think you can, yes. None of the House books so far mention any limit on Champions other than the with/without gang hierarchy rule.

 

[Unslain]

I haven’t played for a while (a first since N17) so whilst I have the 3 new books (awaiting Van Saar) I have not played any games eith them, and only read through the Orlock one a decent amount.

when looking at the army list I can’t actually see a limit any more for champions. Does this exist somewhere else or can you really purchase 4 champions with your leader as long as you have 5 Juves/wreckers/gangers?

The limit on champions is in the Dominion campaign rules (GotU version at least) for creating a gang. I don't recall if it's stated for the other campaigns though.

 

[Vegeta365]

That’s a good point, stated in GOTU for dominion campaign. I would have to look in the other books for the other campaign variants to see if they also say this. It’s easy to forget when CGC can have 3 champs max there are so many books. I mean the trading post and the dominion campaign are the only reason to use GOTU now aren’t they for the first 4 houses. 2 more to go. Then you have the rulebook, then the other books with CGC etc and each of these have their own additional campaigns, new weapons/wargear etc which further confuses things. Even some of the FW models come with additional rules. It’s insane. So much book keeping now and books you have open to play a game.

I mean whilst the dominion campaign will say 2 champions for a starting gang, I can see it easily argued that at the time the house lists specifically said you could only start with 2 champs. Now each house effectively has its own codex and they don’t mention a limit, it makes me think that they wouldn’t intend for you to be limited to only 2 to begin with.

 

[SirWalterManny]

The limit on champions is in the Dominion campaign rules (GotU version at least) for creating a gang. I don't recall if it's stated for the other campaigns though.

No, the limit on champions is not linked to any campaign. Dominion Campaign rules appear in Necromunda Rulebook (2018). Limit to two champions in a starting list appears under House Gang lists under Gang Composition (p11 GoTU). But this section is being replaced in each ‘House of...’ book (eg p29 in Blades, p33 in Artifice).

when looking at the army list I can’t actually see a limit any more for champions. Does this exist somewhere else or can you really purchase 4 champions with your leader as long as you have 5 Juves/wreckers/gangers?

The replacement section in each ‘House of...’ books no longer has a limit on starting champions, beyond having an equal number of (Leader+Champion+Special Champion) to (Prospect+Ganger+Juve).

Main practical limit to a 4-champ starting line-up will be creds in a 1000 credit starting list. Cheapest options for 5 juves with one pistol in each house gang is as below (in brackets is 1x leader + 4x champ base cost, no weapons):

• Goliath: 200 creds (535 - although could reduce costs with gene-smithing)
• Escher: 125 creds (525)
• Orlock: 200 creds (425)
• Van Saar: 200 creds (570)

Dont think I’d realised how cheap Orlock were... that leaves enough creds for 5 grenade launchers, back up pistols and mesh on the leader... Not that would be very Necromunda.

 

[Vonvilkee]

No, the limit on champions is not linked to any campaign. Dominion Campaign rules appear in Necromunda Rulebook (2018). Limit to two champions in a starting list appears under House Gang lists under Gang Composition (p11 GoTU). But this section is being replaced in each ‘House of...’ book (eg p29 in Blades, p33 in Artifice).



The replacement section in each ‘House of...’ books no longer has a limit on starting champions, beyond having an equal number of (Leader+Champion+Special Champion) to (Prospect+Ganger+Juve).

Main practical limit to a 4-champ starting line-up will be creds in a 1000 credit starting list. Cheapest options for 5 juves with one pistol in each house gang is as below (in brackets is 1x leader + 4x champ base cost, no weapons):

• Goliath: 200 creds (535 - although could reduce costs with gene-smithing)
• Escher: 125 creds (525)
• Orlock: 200 creds (425)
• Van Saar: 200 creds (570)

Dont think I’d realised how cheap Orlock were... that leaves enough creds for 5 grenade launchers, back up pistols and mesh on the leader... Not that would be very Necromunda.

Orlocks really are more about the gear than the bodies.

 

[TopsyKretts]

That’s a good point, stated in GOTU for dominion campaign. I would have to look in the other books for the other campaign variants to see if they also say this. It’s easy to forget when CGC can have 3 champs max there are so many books. I mean the trading post and the dominion campaign are the only reason to use GOTU now aren’t they for the first 4 houses. 2 more to go. Then you have the rulebook, then the other books with CGC etc and each of these have their own additional campaigns, new weapons/wargear etc which further confuses things. Even some of the FW models come with additional rules. It’s insane. So much book keeping now and books you have open to play a game.

I mean whilst the dominion campaign will say 2 champions for a starting gang, I can see it easily argued that at the time the house lists specifically said you could only start with 2 champs. Now each house effectively has its own codex and they don’t mention a limit, it makes me think that they wouldn’t intend for you to be limited to only 2 to begin with.

Please know that someone has actually collected, organized and compressed all rules down to a single document.