N18 House of Shadows

[Sakara]

So the fist teaser of House of Shadow is realesed =)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/06/warhammer-fest-online-day-4-warhammer-underworlds-necromunda-and-aeronautica-imperialis/

Delaque gets Psychic bullshittery and assassins it seems like.

Also some talk about Psychic aura thing. Might be a pure lore though.

 

[Caledore]

I like that in the interview that Andy Hoare mentions they will be keeping some of the mystery intact in the House of Shadows. It'd be easy to over-explain Delaque's backstory but they work better shrouded in some mystery.

The gestalt psychic aura idea briefly touched on sounds interesting - I am curious how that will tie in with the prospects.

 

[MusingWarboss]

they will be keeping some of the mystery intact in the House of Shadows. It'd be easy to over-explain Delaque's backstory but they work better shrouded in some mystery.

Yep. They did that last time but not releasing a book just a pamphlet in White Dwarf.

Saves time writing fluff I suppose.

 

[Caledore]

Yep. They did that last time but not releasing a book just a pamphlet in White Dwarf.

Saves time writing fluff I suppose.

Hah! They did write a background blurb for Delaque in Gangs of the Underhive, and I actually loved how they approached it. They described like 3-4 background stories for them that all ended with "but these are just lies the Delaque spread...but in every lie there is a truth". I hope they don't answer the question of what's actually true and what are just lies they spread. It's more fun to not know.

 

[daKing]

I did not know that is what Andy Hoare looked like

 

[InquisitorVex]

I'm still eagerly awaiting the new book, the previously released regular models looked great, although the way their coats are cut makes it look like
they'd walk like Mortia Addams & I can't help but snicker.
The new models are a mixed bag: the Nacht-Ghul are most welcome close melee/assassin-esqe niche [except for the old school Genestealer cult backpacks],
the Psy-Geist are an interesting idea [but I HATE the model], the snake themed mechadendrite is meh but the idea is terrific for data thieves.
The Psycoteric worms - who knows?
The Piscean Spektors are so derivative from The Matrix *exasperated sigh* are such a cheap & easy move, BUT the models look sooooooo damn good!!!

I'm kinda worried about the art direction for the delaques; this is an awesome pic

but the cover art for HOS makes it seem like they're going from the sleeker hitman look towards a more ghoulish take...

 

[EAfirstlast]

I'm still eagerly awaiting the new book, the previously released regular models looked great, although the way their coats are cut makes it look like
they'd walk like Mortia Addams & I can't help but snicker.
The new models are a mixed bag: the Nacht-Ghul are most welcome close melee/assassin-esqe niche [except for the old school Genestealer cult backpacks],
the Psy-Geist are an interesting idea [but I HATE the model], the snake themed mechadendrite is meh but the idea is terrific for data thieves.
The Psycoteric worms - who knows?
The Piscean Spektors are so derivative from The Matrix *exasperated sigh* are such a cheap & easy move, BUT the models look sooooooo damn good!!!

I'm kinda worried about the art direction for the delaques; this is an awesome pic
View attachment 130579

but the cover art for HOS makes it seem like they're going from the sleeker hitman look towards a more ghoulish take...

They went from the weirdos from dark city to literal zombies yes.




Also, the F happened to house of faith?

 

[InquisitorVex]

Oh man. Dark City. Argh. That f*cking movie. Parts of that movie are soooo good & yet somehow I feel it ultimately fails. There's some great premises, so much talent in the cast & some great art direction, and yet for some reason it makes me irrationally angry.
The creepy Delaque-esqe trench-coated Strangers are wonderfully done & easily one of the most successful & iconic parts of the film!!!

 

[Unslain]

Also, the F happened to house of faith?

I think it's just that they have no more models to show for Cawdor and they'll be saving rule snippets for the run-up. Production delays are probably all that's between House of Faith and release. Irritating to think that the starter set has perhaps jumped in front, but better in my view to get that out ahead of the new AoS edition presumably eating up a lot of capacity until that releases.

Equally, could be printing/shipping delays on the book (or even boxes) holding up the models.

Meanwhile I'm glad they haven't just held off from showing us the new Delaque stuff until HoF is on shelves. The new elements are a bit more extreme than I would have liked personally but then I don't know what I'd have done to make the models distinctly different from the core gang sprue otherwise.

So much psykana stretches plausibility for me, but I try to remind myself that each clan house is now a global entity rather than restricted to just hive primus. And for a hive world they're looking at a general population more akin to a subsector, with the resources of a cartel operating across a similar expanse; the sort and scale of corruption, heresy and villainy you'd find in a Dan Abnett novel is not out of place at that point.

 

[Heart of Storm]

I think it will be interesting to see how they play out, Delaque sorely needs something to give it a distinct playstyle, as it stands they have an assortment of tools in their box, but none of them come together - Delaque seems to live or die on how well placed your infiltration guys were, and whether your web weapons got shut down or not.

 

[BearsWillEatYou]

There are some photos floating around of the Hive War rulebook from people who got early copies.

Not much to report as it's a very cutdown version of the current gang list, but it looks like the Grav Pistol (mentioned before in a Warhammer Community article) is just a Grav Gun except with a slightly shorter range (same range bands as a Bolt Pistol). I'd guess we'll see the same in the House book. Sort of makes sense: when you compare the Delaque grav weapon in the plastic kit to the Van Saar one from their upgrade kit, one is about half the size of the other.

Might be worth it if it also gets a price cut to reflect the loss of range?

 

[Photo]

There are some photos floating around of the Hive War rulebook from people who got early copies.

Not much to report as it's a very cutdown version of the current gang list, but it looks like the Grav Pistol (mentioned before in a Warhammer Community article) is just a Grav Gun except with a slightly shorter range (same range bands as a Bolt Pistol). I'd guess we'll see the same in the House book. Sort of makes sense: when you compare the Delaque grav weapon in the plastic kit to the Van Saar one from their upgrade kit, one is about half the size of the other.

Might be worth it if it also gets a price cut to reflect the loss of range?

Yeah I got Hive War from my FLGS on the friday evening, it doesn't have campaggin rules or advancements but does have some scenarios and gang-lists for all the main gangs as well as some equipment and weapons.

 

[MysticWolf]

There are some photos floating around of the Hive War rulebook from people who got early copies.

Not much to report as it's a very cutdown version of the current gang list, but it looks like the Grav Pistol (mentioned before in a Warhammer Community article) is just a Grav Gun except with a slightly shorter range (same range bands as a Bolt Pistol). I'd guess we'll see the same in the House book. Sort of makes sense: when you compare the Delaque grav weapon in the plastic kit to the Van Saar one from their upgrade kit, one is about half the size of the other.

Might be worth it if it also gets a price cut to reflect the loss of range?

In the new book, the grav pistol comes up at 90 creds on the delaque house list. So I assume that'll be the cost from here on out.

 

[KA7777]

I think it will be interesting to see how they play out, Delaque sorely needs something to give it a distinct playstyle, as it stands they have an assortment of tools in their box, but none of them come together - Delaque seems to live or die on how well placed your infiltration guys were, and whether your web weapons got shut down or not.

In my experience playing against them they had a pretty distinct style -- load up on cheap optics and do everything they can to play in Pitch Black conditions.

Unfortunately, that was a horrible niche for a gang to occupy. Anything that requires an opponent to specifically tech against your gang/build (or lose) is very bad design, imo. So I'm hoping they tone that down for the new book, although I expect the opposite (ie. more abilities/skills/gear that leverages Pitch Black).

 

[Heart of Storm]

So turning the lights out was (to me) one of the tools they had, others include smoke/photo goggles and webgun spam.

 

[Sakara]

Delaque are maybe the gang that reeally really need their tacticscards to work really well. I have gone the route to get photovisors and start controlling the lights. But they really get some nice tactics cards such as swap two fighters, infiltrate, pitch black, faceless and so on.

 

[ntw3001]

I don't really know why certain things get to be considered as 'house tactics' when they appear on a single OOP tactics card. Delaques get to turn the lights out, Cawdors get to bring extra fighters. But they don't do these things! Turning the lights out is attached to a Van Saar territory and one Delaque card.

It could be a build-around strategy if you get the Generatorium (possibly the most friend-losing, OP strategy available in the game, since RAW you can ensure that every turn of every game is in pitch black conditions), but that's not a unique trick. Every gang can do the same thing if they can pick up photo-goggles and gunshrouds. Which anyone who owns a generatorium definitely should.

 

[KA7777]

I don't really know why certain things get to be considered as 'house tactics' when they appear on a single OOP tactics card. Delaques get to turn the lights out, Cawdors get to bring extra fighters. But they don't do these things! Turning the lights out is attached to a Van Saar territory and one Delaque card.

It could be a build-around strategy if you get the Generatorium (possibly the most friend-losing, OP strategy available in the game, since RAW you can ensure that every turn of every game is in pitch black conditions), but that's not a unique trick. Every gang can do the same thing if they can pick up photo-goggles and gunshrouds. Which anyone who owns a generatorium definitely should.

...what?

Many missions allow players to *select* tactics cards. In addition, a lot of groups use house rules for the scenarios that require drawing cards (because the RAW draw makes no practical sense in several ways, eg. drawing from a massive deck of every printed tactics card vs. a player throwing away all their tactics cards so the only ones they have "available" are the ones they want to draw). And those house rules often increase the success rate of a favourable/intentional draw.

Furthermore, Delaque gangs gets a heavy discount on photo-goggles (nearly 50%).

It is absolutely a build-around strategy and a designed gang-specific strategy.

You lose friends with an OP Van Saar las/plas gunline, or an all-toughness-everything Goliath gang. That doesn't stop those builds from being builds.

 

[ntw3001]

...what?

Many missions allow players to *select* tactics cards. In addition, a lot of groups use house rules for the scenarios that require drawing cards (because the RAW draw makes no practical sense in several ways, eg. drawing from a massive deck of every printed tactics card vs. a player throwing away all their tactics cards so the only ones they have "available" are the ones they want to draw). And those house rules often increase the success rate of a favourable/intentional draw.

Furthermore, Delaque gangs gets a heavy discount on photo-goggles (nearly 50%).

It is absolutely a build-around strategy and a designed gang-specific strategy.

Many missions don't allow selecting cards, and the cards aren't even available for purchase reliably. Most players will never even own that specific card. This is not something their gangs can do *at all*.

I don't know why you'd say a house rule makes it a strategy in the released game. You can write any strategy into the game when you write your own rules. In any case, from reading this forum, it seems that the 'pick any card' scenario rule is the one people typically don't want to play with. Random draws are fine, it's seeing Click and History of Violence every game that people are house ruling against. You may have it backwards.

How do I know it's not a build-around strategy? Because I've done it! A gang with photo-goggles and infra-sights on everyone, and smoke bombs on a few lads as backup. We would draw 2X cards and pick X, so there was selection. I didn't draw the card. Now across a whole campaign, that's unlucky. But when you see 4-6 cards per game (2-3 by the actual rules), how often do you actually expect to see it?

You lose friends with an OP Van Saar las/plas gunline, or an all-toughness-everything Goliath gang. That doesn't stop those builds from being builds.

Yes, they are builds, I don't know what that has to do with anything. I'd say the 'having a generatorium' build is more obnoxious, and every gang can do it just the same. It's not a Delaque strategy, it's a generatorium strategy. Delaque aren't even the best at it, although they can set it up more cheaply.

 

[TopsyKretts]

If you want to shut off the lights, you can do so reliable without any tactics! Take the Promethium Guild alliance. Other than that, there are tons of random effects that will apply pitch black to any scenario, like uprising campaign events, badzone events, terrain (unlit corridors), open hive war perils ++.