House rules extravaganza, bye bye Dominion campaign!!!!!!

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
For a complete year I avoided house rules. Tried interpreting the rules to make sense. Desperately played Turf War and Dominion campaign as a proper campaign. Always disappointed. It was all a big mess.

Until now! The game is stabilized. And my motivation changed, now is the time to house rule the sheet out of this game! Bye bye time-limited campaign, bye bye arbitrator requirement, territory management, snowballing gangs spiralling out of control, 40k style gangs where everyone can have thunder hammers, terminator save (2+/5+inv), multi-meltas and plasmas. Welcome to the Underhive, welcome dirt, filth and
powerty.

I made an attempt to tweak the rules as little as possible, while at the same time eradicating all the sub-optimal rules and campaign elements. Most crucial was income tax, underdog xp bonus, actually working territory system (no bullshit!) and support for new and old gangs to join and leave as we see fit. I'm not a game designer by any means, so most of this is inspired by original Necromunda (tried and true).

HOUSE RULES

CAMPAIGN

  • Any Champions purchased after the 2nd costs double credits to recruit.
  • Add XP to Gang Rating (Use original Necromunda XP rules, there is no cost added for advancements).
  • Double the cost of all Champions and Leaders when calculating Gang Rating.
  • Specialist and Ganger are treated as the same (Ganger = Specialist).
  • The gang can only have 1 special weapon or heavy weapon per Champion/Leader. The special weapons can be given to Gangers.
  • Apply Income Tax (from original Necromunda).
TERRITORIES
All gangs start with 1 permanent Settlement and 4 temporary random territories. When challenging a player, a temporary territory can be the stake. If the gang controlling the staked territory loses the battle, the winning gang can take it over. It must replace one of the 4 temporary territories. However, before the territory changes hands, roll a 4+, or the staked territory is destroyed instead.
The losing gang then gains a new random territory to replace their loss.

At any time, a gang should always have 1 permanent Settlement and 4 temporary territories.

ADVANCEMENTS
When a fighter gets enough XP to reach a new level (original Necromunda XP rules), roll on this modified list:
  • 2: Skill: Primary (Custom), Secondary (Custom) or Any (Random)
  • 3-4: +1 Skill: Primary (Custom) or Secondary (Random)
  • 5: +1 Strength or Attack (Random)
  • 6: +1 WS or BS (Random)
  • 7: +1 Move, I, Ld, Cool, Willpower or Intelligence (Custom)
  • 8: +1 WS or BS (Random)
  • 9: +1 Wounds or Toughness (Random)
  • 10-11: +1 Skill: Primary (Custom) or Secondary (Random)
  • 12: +1 Skill: Primary (Custom), Secondary (Custom) or Any (Random)
GENERAL RULES
  • Stray Shots: Hit on 6+ (instead of 4+).
  • Blasts/Templates:
    • Target Priority: Must pass Priority test or touch closest fighter.
    • Engaged Fighters: If an Engaged fighter is hit, any other fighters Engaged with the hit fighter is also hit on a 4+.
  • Engaged: Fighters can Move to Engage! No Charge bonuses.
  • Close combat over barricades: -1 hit modifier (as it was in N17).
  • Tactics Cards: Custom (x) selection become Random(x + 3, keep x) instead.
  • Buy common weapons at any time!
  • Swap weapons freely.
  • Ignore equipment sets.
  • Bionics does not add to Gang Rating?
VARIOUS
  • Horrors in the Dark: Seriously Injured or Broken fighters should be ignored when measuring closest fighter.
  • Archeotech Device and Malfunctioning Generatorium (Special Terrain Features): Roll to hit to see if Shock applies.
  • House Favours: Don’t apply this bonus if all gangs participating in the battle are new.
SKILLS
  • Catfall (Agility): Avoid falling into a pitfall on a 4+.
  • Clamber (Agility): Crawl Through (Double) action for ductways is a Simple action.
  • Backstab (Cunning): If benefiting from this skill, apply an additional -1 AP.
  • Ballistics Expert (Savant): Can pre-measure the distance to one enemy fighter when aiming.
  • Connected (Savant): Add +1 to the Seek Rare Equipment roll. Allow any fighter (not just Leader and Champions) to make this post-battle action.
  • Savvy Trader (Savant): Allow any fighter (not just Leader and Champions) to make this post-battle action.
I will name this campaign 'Necromunda'. It is available in its entirety here:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1i4SbrixXJVp7U1eJdAT2ruyujBXi_N6aLVXv-rp-roE
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,573
1,327
123
Kristiansand
Please comment with suggestions and improvements. I tried creating alternative levels for Income Tax which uses Gang Rating instead of Gang Size. I just put some numbers down at the moment, need to think or test what makes sense here.

I also need to figure out if there should be a challenge system, or maybe just allow the winner of any battle to take a territory from the opponent.

For skills, there should be some better ideas to further distinguish Savvy Trader and Connected. They are too similar at the moment. Trick Shot also need some boost to make it more interesting than a situational BS advancement.
 
Last edited:

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
1,632
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Kangasala, Finland
The rules here makes sense. I probably personally wouldnt restrict territory maximun to starting level though.

You didnt mentio rare trading rules much. Do you have intend to have limitation on how many rare items can you buy?

If so savvy trader could have buy two rare items.

Brainstormin some other ideas for either skill:
- reroll rare item roll
- discount for purchase
- minimun availibility level. Like 7 + 1 for each extra connected.
- access to some extra unique items like drugs
- increases income from territory
- increase selling value for items
 
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TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
Excellent!

When I played Dominion, I never won much, so didn't get any territories. A friend of mine won a lot and he got the best territories. The game got very unbalanced after that. I don't want territories to skew the balance. In original Necromunda, each gang had 5 static territories. That could work here too, but I found the territories changing hands interesting. How would you avoid "winner takes it all" when it comes to territories, if they aren't limited?
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,573
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Kristiansand
Re-roll is brilliant. Makes it more unique, less overlap with Connected skill.

Savvy Trader (Savant, replaces normal skill)
Any fighter can have this skill. Instead of working a territory or making a post-battle action, reduce the cost of 1 item by 20 credits. The cost cannot be reduced to less than 10 credits. In addition, the Rarity roll may be re-rolled (second result must be used even if lower than the first).
I am curious whether double recruitment cost for Champions (after the 2nd) is too much. And whether double cost for Leader and Champions when calculating Gang Rating is too much. I want them to be bloated, just not sure about the balance here.
 

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
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Hmmmmmmmmm. Did our gaming group play old rules wrong? Was it really so that you could only ever control five territories (and 1 if outlaw) at the time.

Old edition had restriction that only some scenarios has takeover possibility and only if scenario was won by ... (my memory may serve me wrong) ... but was that you needed atleast 3 ooa and three times more ooa to make takeover.

ONE way to mimick this would make the takeover conditioned on victory points. (If done plainly in a way that you needed to gain significantly more vp. To take over.) It would have one neat game mechanic effect which would give larger "penalty" for being large as every fighter that flees counts ooa for purpose of vp. I would personally like this kind of linear penalty:

  • Having huge gang and the way bottle checks works gives player signficant position to win.
  • Bigger gangs -> longer games
  • Bigger gangs -> more insignificant characters.
However this is not that simple and especially as you wish to reintroduce old tax (which gives penalty to larger gangs) also pretty much any boost to van saars is unwelcome ;)

I am still strong supporter of idea that necromunda IS better if players keeps their gang sizes about 6 - 8 fighters that are meaningfull characters, not just cannon fodder 1 2 3 for super fodder 1 2 3.
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
You are right, there are some circumstances where new territories can be gained or existing territories may be destroyed or changing hands! But this does not seem to improve balance. If one gang wins a massive victory (many OoA/Injured/Dead fighters), they not only have crippled the opponent's gang, but permanently reduced their income with at least 20% (1 of 5 territories). I must have played an older version cause I never noticed this before.

Wouldn't this skew the balance and increase snowballing effect? The best gang would increasingly roll over the smaller ones, taking more and more of their territories, earning more and more money, while the crippled gangs earn less and less money?

I'm planning on having alternative/optional income tax based on Gang Rating for gangs that have many fighters. A gang of 5 Van Saars could have the same gang rating as 15 Cawdors, but would earn a lot more money. While I agree the best is to have small numbers (6-8 fighters as you say), other players may want something different? I also want to have a system that supports asymmetric balance to gang size. Do we want to enforce this size on all gangs with the income tax, or allow for some gangs to be 'horde'? It makes sense for elite gangs to have few members, but what about Cawdor or some of the outlaw/cult gangs?
 
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Loriel

Gang Hero
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Yep. Design issue elite vs horde naturally needs to be concerned when doing any kind of rules. If go for vp thing horde gangs could have +1 requirement to be eligible to lose territory.

Ultimately no matter what, most certainly there WILL be a gang that rises above else. And imo that is not main problem but actually the goal of the entire campaign. better or luckier gangs / players should be rewarded slighty better. The key element is to find good level how quickly they are rewarded. Imo current dominion has rather steep curve to get really out of control.

Introducing some rating based taxation (OR campaign position based) taxation to keep the top dog little bit on control might be good. For fluff call it something like "it is good to be a king" tax. Basicly means that gangers starts buying hoes, drugs boozes. Improved lifestyle and naturally it cost money. For underdogs they are too busy to beat the top dogs that they tend to focud credits more on supplies and warfare thus effectively better economy.

One key element also which newmunda has "failed" in my opinion is that main gang developing is done with rare trade items rather than advancement. My view is that gang developement should mainly be from experience and rare items abd gadgets would be supplement. Especially now when rules allows possibility to loot dead fighters (that was harsh and slighty counterintuitive rule in oldmunda) but it made fighter loss more tragic. Now technically losing my champion with heavy stubborn + full servo harness if i manage get the items back new fresh champion is ALMOST the same. This gives me slightly odd feelings on the other hand jey! On the other hand... something necromunda essential is missing
 

Alobar

Gang Hero
some nice ideas here.

As others have pointed out, the oldmunda income tax based on numbers in the gang doesn't tally so well with the individualised newmunda gangs - elite versus horde.

I like the idea of a fixed income after every game, representing the 'funding' stream from the house paymasters. That would be in addition to winnings from scenarios.
Instead, all territories could offer in-game advantages or post-game stuff (free hangers on, etc).
 

Trafalgar Law

Gang Hero
Mar 14, 2017
654
1,053
98
Chorley, Lancashire, UK
I like what you've done here. A nice attempt to port the old campaign into N17/18. I've been considering how to do this for a while so it's good to see your ideas.

Few things I'm not sure of though:

Double cost for additional champs seems a bit steep. Gangs with better income generating territories would be able to afford this while others could get left behind. I'd suggest using the rep system from turf war as the method to restrict champs and special/heavy weapons. I do like the idea to give the special weapons to other gangers, means that taking a cc champ isn't a handicap.

The income tax system will discourage horde gangs and massively favour the elite gangs duch as Van Saar or Goliath.

How are you planning to do xp generation if you're intending to use the old advancement steps? 10 xp will take a long time to get under the current system for a ganger, gang champions are even worse off with 20xp needed per step. Will gangers/specialists promote to champions? Do Juves promote to gangers or champions?

I'd suggest keeping a flat level up point of say every 6xp (as it is for gangers). Then keeping track of the number of advancements and multiplying that by say 10 to give the total gang rating. This will allow you to keep the current xp generation system and so will involve changing fewer things.

One of my issues with the game is that it's too easy to get the best gear from the trading post. What ideas do you have to help with this problem? Lowering the income will help somewhat I suppose, but only so much. Another issue here is that some gangs gave better house weapon lists than others, so the trading post needs to be accessible enough to level things out a bit.

I like the changes to skills and general tweaks although I wouldn't drop the additional equipment sets. I think those were a good idea as they allow for flexible loadouts without bloating your gang size.
 

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
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I suggested one level system in some other thread here on yaktribe ( cant remember exactly where)

But it goes something like this. Every fightereshas a level which basicly is their starting level + all the level ups they have accumulated so far. To get the next level you need to have equal experience to make advance roll. (perhaps tie increase of rating to level ups instead.)

Juves would start from level 1 , gangers from somewhere 4-6 and champs leaders somewhere from 6-8 (and this would actually give slight design ability to make "elite" gangs higher level and horde gangs lower level, while adjusting fighters starting stats / costs.)

This would have nice linear level up system without too complicated table structure etc. It would roughly solve the core problem with juves which no doubt is too slow progress on levels. They really should have quick level upping. If necessary state that maximum level is 20? dunno if necessary though.
 
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TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
I like the changes to skills and general tweaks although I wouldn't drop the additional equipment sets. I think those were a good idea as they allow for flexible loadouts without bloating your gang size.
Thanks for feedback. I'll look into your suggestions. I quoted your last bit at the moment because this is something I strongly disagree with in N18. I don't use fighter cards. I could, cause I bought everything from N17/N18, but I only want to use roster. Also my friend hasn't bought a single product for N17/N18, so he does not have cards (he play 40k and fantasy for 20 years so have enough minis to make gangs, chaos, ogre, genestealer cult ++). One of the things I loved with Necromunda was gang management, swapping weapons and equipment to compliment levelup specializations.
 

Loriel

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  • 7: +1 Move, I, Ld, Cool, Willpower or Intelligence (Custom)
hmmm this gives me somehwat... mixed feelings. i understand the basic idea why you would prefer have this one to be choice. sadly given options choice is always movemetn initiive or cool, almost no exceptions (naturally depending on the fighter which ever needed). Those previously mentioned are quite usefull stats for any fighter regardless of their role etc thus having pure ranodm roll makes average result have roughly 50/ / 50 chance to get positive effect and slightly no effect. So really undestand your design why you went for custom rather random here. BUT then having custom here but random on ws bs, is something I gringe again :D:D so if all choices for stats were custom I prolly would accept it, iff all would random i would accept it....

BUT then the final thing. IMO the result 7 should only have mental abilities. being the average result of 2d6 and most not wanted. Havin only mental and custom means almost auto maxed out cool before going to something complete else. Having random roll for it well again the 1/4 chance having almost always usefull stats compared to 3/4 having almost non usefull stats. thats not very appealing design either. well having special 1-4 rolls are determined and on 5+ player can choose, so technically it would be that players get the cool upgrade on 50 / 50 times. that could be okish...

yeat, should result 7 be only mental where initiave and movement would go. i totally agree on the old munda premise that 6 and 8 are ws / bs results. I liked it in the old munda. this would leave results 4 and 10 for movement intiative, but that would cost skill slots. dunno this flaws in it..

just tossing here as just though of it.: Perhaps one joker for double 6 would be choose any characteristic or primary / secondary skill, or random any skill.

Overall could the good old D66 table give it more options to use. Rouhgly something like
1-x would be skills and 11 being the best option where 16 being worst option for random primary like.
2-x would be physical atttributes like movement, initiative, toughness, str, wounds
etc. go on.

----------------------

THIS consideration leads to another really irritating problem in the new munda. I liked the separation of mental stats, i though it was COOL (pun intended) and really neat way to have yet good characterful ways to build your gangers. But I am truly dissapointed how little GW has really used there stats. naturally this might also be meta thing, for example if players use lot of zone mortalis doors gadgets etc. perhaps int checks might have its uses or for fearsome fighters laughing low willed goliaths standing their ground :D. But still to justifcy the mental separation there should be more use for other than cool stat. Thus having more use for other stats especially in post battle could be used to solve problems. Or simply revert the old design to single mental ability because it really doesn't add much to the game currently.
 
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TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
I thought the choice between Move, Cool and potentially Initiative could be interesting. The other mental stats are of course garbage. I'm not sure how far back I want to pull it. N18 is a characteristics spam party. Old Necromunda, so many disappointing +1Ld/Initiative results... This should be some middleground. I'll think more about it, thanks again for feedback.
 

Whiysper

Ganger
May 25, 2018
87
95
18
UK
Choice is always better - random (especially WS/BS, for example) leads to a lot of 'resetting' fighters.

If you insist on a mix, perhaps a surcharge to allow the choice - so if you paid 5XP to level, you can sink another 2 to be able to choose the result, or similar. Or incur a debt, if you don't have enough in the bank.
 

Trafalgar Law

Gang Hero
Mar 14, 2017
654
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Chorley, Lancashire, UK
I wouldn't put movement at 7 unless it's a random roll as I think most people would just max movement first. The others are ok either way. Cool or initiative is an interesting choice for most gangs with occasional increases for intelligence (to use chem synths or whatever).

Ws/bs needs to be custom in my opinion. It always struck us as silly when we found that our heavy or sniper had spent all their time at the dojo instead of the firing range or vice versa.
 

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
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Choice vs random is all about design.

If you intend to have roughly level ups every 1-2 games having random rolls with insignificant results is way to go.

If you intend level ups roughly per 2-3 games level ups with some randomness but still choices. For level up per roughly 4-5 very little random much choice.

-----

I liked old mundas random table and with wounding hit exps and overall common leveling it made sense it was random with sub optimal results. This especially created really interesting juves.

In n18 i dislike having two tier advance system. Imo that is complete unnecessary. If i would have dictatorship i would steer ship to design with frequent level ups with random results including suboptimal outcomes.

But i admit there is merit in the new advance table with choices. I had a good talk with one of my friend that pointed out that very roughly saying in old munda you got positive effects you wanted rougjly every 5 to 6 games. (Naturally lot of variable, misding games sometimes dices grants ton of exp, perhaps scenario objective.) It is roughly same if you accumulated experience for a while ending up desired. Now after...over 100 old munda games and about 20 new munda games i agree the basic idea.

What i dont agree is the lack of characterfull odd balls which old system naturally produced. It is really hard to make suboptimal choice. (I have tried to make "rpg" choices. Saying as a guy currently playing with three juves and harpoon launcher cargo lugger ;);) )

------

But yeah i suggest either have characteristic increase design either random or choice for all. Adjust average level ups accordingly.
 

Jacob Dryearth

Gang Hero
Sep 6, 2016
603
685
103
When using the XP as written in the new edition, how about an option for "heroes" to roll on the ganger chart fo 6xp? Random and sometimes suboptimal. 6xp if just for consistency, it could be 4 or 5.

As far as your new campaign system, it looks cool, but I think I'll stick with small tweaks to the new. That suits my group better. After this Dominion campaign we will identify what need changing for the next, just like we did with Turf War.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see ways for territories to change hande or be destroyed, but the only way for new territories to enter the campaign if now new gangs to join, right?
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,573
1,327
123
Kristiansand
Ultimately no matter what, most certainly there WILL be a gang that rises above else. And imo that is not main problem but actually the goal of the entire campaign. better or luckier gangs / players should be rewarded slighty better. The key element is to find good level how quickly they are rewarded. Imo current dominion has rather steep curve to get really out of control.
Having one gang become dominant is ok yes. But note that when the successful gang gains more champs (power), they gain a lot of bloat. This bloat will increase underdog xp rewards, quickly leveling up weaker gangs.