How it pulls us in!

[Biggle_Bear]

Another yakman said something in the Heroquest thread that made me think.

What is it that is so enticing about the Necromunda setting?

Some of us really struggle with the corporation that owns Necromunda but it draws us back anyway. I know for many it's nostalgia, others the minis, etc. But I mean the setting itself? Was it simply the best at the time and we are hooked, or does it continue to be a great setting?

My main goal really is to discuss...

Are there other settings that are as good?
what is the formula?
is it possible to replicate that magic?

 

[Silk]

A friend introduced me to 40K shortly after 2nd edition came out, and while it was fun and I loved the quirky randomness of the orks, I couldn't really get into it because it was a little like any other board game. You played a game and then you were done. At this point I had been playing AD&D for about ten years, and I was also getting into Cyberpunk 2020. 40K lacked the continuity and advancement of rpg's. Then Necromunda came out. It had the continuity and advancement of rpg's, cool miniatures, and the setting was right in my wheelhouse. I've always been really into the whole cyberpunk/dystopia/post apocalyptic thing from movies like Blade Runner, Hardware, Johnny Mnemonic, Robocop and the Mad Max trilogy, as well as the Max Headroom TV show. And finally, the 3D terrain aspect appealed to the model railroader in me. In short, it ticked a lot of boxes for me.

With some tweaking, you could play using the Necromunda rules in the Cyberpunk 2020 setting. Most of the weapons wouldn't be available, but cybernetics would be a much bigger thing. I don't know that I'd bother with the effort, though. The nice thing about Necromunda is that you're not limited to setting it on Necromunda itself. I've been working on a setting that's more of a sprawling metropolis like Mega-City One rather than a hive spire, with rail and road links to scattered towns in the wasteland that are being harassed by ork road gangs (GorkaMorka).

 

[Trafalgar Law]

What is it that is so enticing about the Necromunda setting?

Necromunda really captured my imagination when it first came out in the 90's. I loved the whole wild west crossed with dystopian failed future world setting and the grow your gang campaign system was the icing on the cake for me. I got the boxed set for Christmas shortly after it came out along with the metal Orlock gang. I later expanded with metal Goliaths, Escher and Van Saar. Not sure it's my favourite game, that's probably Inquisitor, but it's probably my second although that fluctuates with Gorkamorka.

Are there other settings that are as good?

Yes Gorkamorka and Mordheim. For similar reasons to Necromunda. Malifaux is also an interesting and similar setting, but let down by the fact that I'm always playing someone else character and not my own.

what is the formula?

The ability to create your own gang (or whatever), and then watch it grow and develop. Low cost which allows for multiple gangs. Self contained rules which don't need a large outlay on source books etc before you can start playing.

is it possible to replicate that magic?

Apparently not. The failure for me of the n17+ system shows that Games Workshop simply doesn't get why Necromunda was so loved.

 

[TopsyKretts]

There are no other setting as good.

 

[Tiny]

The main part of the setting that took me in was that these were regular humans in a galaxy full of deadly aliens and genetically altered supermen. They were the lowest of the low and you got to watch your fighters progress from a bunch of useless imbeciles to a tooled up band of hard bastards.

 

[Ardavion]

Are there other settings that are as good?

That's a little difficult to list, really; a lot of "settings" are fairly generic (going too far down part of the formula below), and some comparable settings I've not looked into enough (e.g. Infinity).

For me, I like Last Days: Zombie Apocalypse and Frostgrave as more "modern" (in terms of release) skirmish game settings; LD:ZA could easily be replaced by Mantic's Walking Dead games as "Zombie Apocalypse Skirmish", however, which is partly why I can't compare them to Necromunda.

A lot of what makes "Necromunda" a great setting is because it's a named "Sci-Fi Wild West Frontier", setting which got bought into as a name, as well as pretty much the first of it's kind, in an ecosystem of games where such a game did not exist (you could argue that Rogue Trader had the initial skirmish level, but it didn't have the overall setting fleshed out).

For actual "Wild West", there was once a Necromunda rewrite to use the rules in the Wild West, but I fail to recall what its name was - it was fairly generic as it was a simple rules rewrite. Since then, you have Wild West Exodus, which I understand is a slightly larger scale in terms of model count, and Dracula's America, as well as some of the nameless Historical systems I've never really looked into, but they don't really properly push a grungy sci-fi angle.

For Sci-Fi, you have Mantic's Deadzone and Infinity, but neither really push the lawless frontier angle. Simply put, Necromunda had a unique angle between genres that helped it to stand out, even at a time when there weren't really any competitors.

If you were to step into an alternate reality where Necromunda wasn't released back in the day and release Necromunda now - take the name away, take away the history that's built up with it - and it suddenly has a lot more work to put in against it's competitors, and it would get compared to whatever would have been created first in that universe in (primarily) the Sci-Fi genre.

what is the formula?

I think parts of the formula (if I knew the whole formula, I'd be writing a setting and rules system to sell and swim in the resulting money) are (certainly helped by):

1. Having a pre-existing universe for people to step into as a hook.
   1. 40k in Necromunda's case. Mordheim came along and lived in WHFB, and as with Necromunda had fan-created alternative campaign settings.
   2. Gorkamorka also had 40k, but removed too much of where it came from as to not really hook people; there was no thread linking them to the larger universe. Things happened on Necromunda and could influence the Imperium; Things happened on Angelis, and people would still be doing what they'd always been doing.
   3. Alternatives at Mantic have named planets/countries, but most systems are "setting agnostic", which can be a double edged sword.
2. Stepping in, but not too far.
   1. Outline one aspect of the game setting [Hive Primus, how it works in general and the gangs that live there], have other places existing in a vague way, but don't stop allowing for players to make what they want (the contents of Hive Secundus, for example, were never really elaborated on, and multiple hives exist but are never even named).
   2. Necromunda fleshed out some names of places and vaguely what their environment was, but they didn't forcibly tell you that place A was located at B, C distance from D, had large battle cannons and macro batteries from downed space ships and was definitely permanently controlled by person E. You had the flavour, but could pick and choose how that went together.
      1. Which, as a contrary example, is a turn-off for me in N##, which goes into so much detail for the entirety of the planet, the government, how houses work etc. as to alienate my private headcanon.
3. Having a setting that allows for variety and variation.
   1. You can have multiple different House gangs, for example, but the "duplicate" House gangs can be armed in varying ways. You can have outlander gangs, and duplicates can be equipped completely differently.
   2. Even if you have similar gangs and loadouts, you're morally flexible within the story of the game/campaign to do different things and create different story arcs.
   3. This is probably applicable to any game, though; Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Fists... Inquisition using xenos weaponry versus hating all xenos...
4. Having a setting that gives people a twist on what they know, so they can still use what they have.
   1. 40k is big battles - Necromunda is grungy scraps for survival, but they're mostly using the same weapons and equipment. Both can have fights in hive cities, and locations within the hive can be varied enough to fit "other places" (terrain), but provide a different sensation. That weird alien planet tree = that weird hive fungus.
5. Having a system people can pick up easily; either be familiar to your player base, or be simple.
   1. Necromunda used the (at the time) familiar 2nd ed 40k rules with some tweaks and new campaign/progression/"rpg-lite" rules, so the potential/target player base would more likely be familiar with the structure of the gameplay. (Some Osprey-based titles use similar systems to retain some level of familiarity for their potential player base).
   2. The rules of the time being similar to the larger 40k system allowed for cross-over; you had alien stats in the back of the Big Yellow book to include Genestealers, Orks, Eldar, Loyalist/Choas Space Marines etc. which allowed for more people to buy in from the larger 40k community, which allowed for a twist on what they knew (see above).
   3. The current system of N## throws me for a loop, as I don't get its complexities and variations (even within itself, therefore *not simple*) compared to the original ruleset.
   4. For an example of simple systems, Frostgrave uses D20s with reasonably simple modifiers to calculate close combat/ranged combat/magic; showing someone how the system works wouldn't take long, and "complicated" situations are easy to intuit from the pre-existing examples. From what I can tell, Frostgrave is popular in part because it is relatively easy to pick up and play. Rangers of Shadow Deep varies on this ruleset with different scenario mechanics to provide a different gameplay experience, but is familiar for those who have played Frostgrave to not be a leap.
6. Pushing the game and letting people know about it.
   1. Games Workshop have (or had, probably still do have) the most global reach in the "hobby", with stores everywhere, shouting about their games and blasting it out of White Dwarf in what appeared to be every single possible place you could sell magazines. Back in the day, when the internet wasn't really the thing it is now, that was how you slapped nerds in the face with your product. Most other games of the time would be in the specialist publications and offered by "smaller" companies, most of which wouldn't be anywhere near as well known, and probably forgotten about most of the time.
      1. It's also why all the alternatives popped up when Specialist Games got neutered back in the day and White Dwarf devolved into a trashy catalogue; people stopped hearing about Necromunda, got turned away from GW stores when they wanted to play Necromunda, so started looking for alternative games and alternative publications (which were coincidentally full of new alternative games).
   2. The internet being a thing now, it is significantly easier to find blogs (BoLS, OnTableTop), video channels (YouTube, Twitch etc) and webstores pushing a new setting/system/rules/miniatures.
7. Getting a big enough player base for the game to support itself.
   1. Following on from point 6, really; die-hard fans will find some way to keep playing the game if the player base drops off (Hey, you lovely people!); you get enough people invested in it first, though, to establish those fans.
8. Keeping the game alive and fresh, but not too fresh.
   1. This is how original Necromunda (et al from Specialist Games) took a bullet; GW didn't keep it alive and forcibly killed it (not allowing it in stores, not publicising it, destroying stock after trying to clearance sale it away).
      1. N## is... Fresh?... Every time it releases a book or a sprue...?
   2. Frostgrave has a second edition, has rules revisions for existing content, and new content on the way as of time of writing.

1-5 have the setting with the rules mixed in; 6-8 highlight that a setting is only as good as the real world environment it is placed in and how it is treated.

is it possible to replicate that magic?

I'd think it is possible to replicate the magic, as long as it isn't specifically "Necromunda" magic. It may have even already happened, but no-one knows about it yet.

When the Specialist Games stopped being supported by GW, a whole load of alternate systems sprung up to try and take the place of the various systems, hence Mantic coming to the fore as a miniature provider with their own line of sci-fi and fantasy games, hence Infinity being a thing, hence all the third-party mini producers etc.

Unfortunately, I'd not know much about other sci-fi settings, as I'm pretty much bought in to Necromunda of old, and while I'd happily tout some alternative systems from Osprey, those systems have fairly generic settings, and I'm not aware of people having enough interest to consider them.

For example, there are a few Frostgrave players on here (me being a prospective one), and I'm always happy to wax lyrical about LD:ZA, which has an interesting survivor group creation "mechanic" (you have three types of survivor that you have to pick from as a leader; Selfless, Selfish, and Trained. The selected type can be up to 100% of your group, 50% can be of the Neutral type (dogs, kids etc.) and up to 25% can be from the other type, so i.e. in a Selfish group of 8 models only 2 can be Selfless or Trained, or one of each).

See? I'm off on a tangent because I like how the system (both as a one-off game and as a campaign) works, but the setting is "zombie apocalypse, survive", you'd be making the setting up yourself - while everyone gets "zombie apocalypse", people get "Walking Dead" even more, as more people can orient themselves to Rick, Carl, Michonne and all the various other characters and locations that are already in existence. Given that the Walking Dead games by Mantic also have "generic" surivivor rules, to make your own characters, allows for the separate story of "your survivors" in a pre-existing universe, in turn making it eminently more relatable, more google-able, and potentially more successful than LD:ZA (I've not done a comparison, just going off my own expectations of human behaviour).

There's also recent books like Zona Alfa, Rogue Stars etc. that I'd be happy to go into as potential campaign games, but since they're not as well known or talked about as GW games in my circle of awareness I really don't know how interested people are in them.

I'd even be interested in some pirate skirmish games, but that's a bit of a stretch for me right now - the only reason I'm aware of/interested in them is because I needed to buy a boat for TribeMeet. Even then, I'm not a history buff, and especially not a pirate history buff. I've not looked at buying rules or minis, but those I've seen do pique my interest.

Part of GW doing N## and so on is to try and recapture the magic they threw away, only for it to be picked up and ran with by other people.

...

That's my two cents, anyway.

TL;DR - a setting will do well when they're a twist on something familiar that pushes a new boundary, setting up just enough for a person to flesh out the story in their own head, supported by simple to understand and use systems and are well supported and publicised by their creators.

 

[Punktaku]

I first got into RPGs and then discovered 40k like others have said. But once you made your force, that was it. That was disappointing.

Necromunda had it all. The combat system was the same as 40k, but your gang was more alive. They changed. They grew. I’ve collected loads and loads of GW over the years, and Necromunda is the only game I still have everything of.

I’ve tried other games, but they just weren’t the same. I didn’t like the faceless henchmen of Mordheim, and not a single person in my area that I know of ever bought GorkaMorka.

I certainly hoped the rerelease of Necromunda in 2017 would recapture the magic. I sure am glad I haven’t spent a single penny on any of the rerelease. But I would like to get some of the models. Someday.

 

[Space Truckin]

Some fantastic posts here. Necromunda was not so nostalgic for me as I hadnt played previously to N17. But I can comment on the larger 40k setting in general.

Looking at this from another angle I feel whatever is happening w the current 40k lore is having the opposite effect of 'pulling me in'. Its killed my interest. I have also considered my life is a bit difficult at the moment going thru personal issues but that escapism and immersion is gone for me.

New lore is not written for my generation I get that but its killed a lot of enthusiasm for 40k completely. It doesnt feel like it belongs to the fans at this point and is headed to generic scifi that went from dystopian space opera to sci fi soap opera. What made it a unique setting is lost. I still find small corners of the galaxy that bring back those feelings but it's not space marines anymore. Its tying back into the human side and the true struggles most of us can relate too in some way.

40k has jumped the shark one too many times. I thought about a 2nd ed resurrection or even 30k but its truly a feeling of falling out of love and being disconnected with the setting.

So to answer the question about what I love I have to look at what I hate. That may be a profound and insightful statement about me. But I do like necromunda because it feels like the old setting uts framework is adaptive to tell the story of YOUR guys or gals whether it's the u underhive a spaceship 30k or reenacting aliens or classic zombie movies. Its familiar and relatable to us all.

 

[Biggle_Bear]

That's a little difficult to list, really; a lot of "settings" are fairly generic (going too far down part of the formula below), and some comparable settings I've not looked into enough (e.g. Infinity).

For me, I like Last Days: Zombie Apocalypse and Frostgrave as more "modern" (in terms of release) skirmish game settings; LD:ZA could easily be replaced by Mantic's Walking Dead games as "Zombie Apocalypse Skirmish", however, which is partly why I can't compare them to Necromunda.

A lot of what makes "Necromunda" a great setting is because it's a named "Sci-Fi Wild West Frontier", setting which got bought into as a name, as well as pretty much the first of it's kind, in an ecosystem of games where such a game did not exist (you could argue that Rogue Trader had the initial skirmish level, but it didn't have the overall setting fleshed out).

For actual "Wild West", there was once a Necromunda rewrite to use the rules in the Wild West, but I fail to recall what its name was - it was fairly generic as it was a simple rules rewrite. Since then, you have Wild West Exodus, which I understand is a slightly larger scale in terms of model count, and Dracula's America, as well as some of the nameless Historical systems I've never really looked into, but they don't really properly push a grungy sci-fi angle.

For Sci-Fi, you have Mantic's Deadzone and Infinity, but neither really push the lawless frontier angle. Simply put, Necromunda had a unique angle between genres that helped it to stand out, even at a time when there weren't really any competitors.

If you were to step into an alternate reality where Necromunda wasn't released back in the day and release Necromunda now - take the name away, take away the history that's built up with it - and it suddenly has a lot more work to put in against it's competitors, and it would get compared to whatever would have been created first in that universe in (primarily) the Sci-Fi genre.

I think parts of the formula (if I knew the whole formula, I'd be writing a setting and rules system to sell and swim in the resulting money) are (certainly helped by):

1. Having a pre-existing universe for people to step into as a hook.
   1. 40k in Necromunda's case. Mordheim came along and lived in WHFB, and as with Necromunda had fan-created alternative campaign settings.
   2. Gorkamorka also had 40k, but removed too much of where it came from as to not really hook people; there was no thread linking them to the larger universe. Things happened on Necromunda and could influence the Imperium; Things happened on Angelis, and people would still be doing what they'd always been doing.
   3. Alternatives at Mantic have named planets/countries, but most systems are "setting agnostic", which can be a double edged sword.
2. Stepping in, but not too far.
   1. Outline one aspect of the game setting [Hive Primus, how it works in general and the gangs that live there], have other places existing in a vague way, but don't stop allowing for players to make what they want (the contents of Hive Secundus, for example, were never really elaborated on, and multiple hives exist but are never even named).
   2. Necromunda fleshed out some names of places and vaguely what their environment was, but they didn't forcibly tell you that place A was located at B, C distance from D, had large battle cannons and macro batteries from downed space ships and was definitely permanently controlled by person E. You had the flavour, but could pick and choose how that went together.
      1. Which, as a contrary example, is a turn-off for me in N##, which goes into so much detail for the entirety of the planet, the government, how houses work etc. as to alienate my private headcanon.
3. Having a setting that allows for variety and variation.
   1. You can have multiple different House gangs, for example, but the "duplicate" House gangs can be armed in varying ways. You can have outlander gangs, and duplicates can be equipped completely differently.
   2. Even if you have similar gangs and loadouts, you're morally flexible within the story of the game/campaign to do different things and create different story arcs.
   3. This is probably applicable to any game, though; Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Fists... Inquisition using xenos weaponry versus hating all xenos...
4. Having a setting that gives people a twist on what they know, so they can still use what they have.
   1. 40k is big battles - Necromunda is grungy scraps for survival, but they're mostly using the same weapons and equipment. Both can have fights in hive cities, and locations within the hive can be varied enough to fit "other places" (terrain), but provide a different sensation. That weird alien planet tree = that weird hive fungus.
5. Having a system people can pick up easily; either be familiar to your player base, or be simple.
   1. Necromunda used the (at the time) familiar 2nd ed 40k rules with some tweaks and new campaign/progression/"rpg-lite" rules, so the potential/target player base would more likely be familiar with the structure of the gameplay. (Some Osprey-based titles use similar systems to retain some level of familiarity for their potential player base).
   2. The rules of the time being similar to the larger 40k system allowed for cross-over; you had alien stats in the back of the Big Yellow book to include Genestealers, Orks, Eldar, Loyalist/Choas Space Marines etc. which allowed for more people to buy in from the larger 40k community, which allowed for a twist on what they knew (see above).
   3. The current system of N## throws me for a loop, as I don't get its complexities and variations (even within itself, therefore *not simple*) compared to the original ruleset.
   4. For an example of simple systems, Frostgrave uses D20s with reasonably simple modifiers to calculate close combat/ranged combat/magic; showing someone how the system works wouldn't take long, and "complicated" situations are easy to intuit from the pre-existing examples. From what I can tell, Frostgrave is popular in part because it is relatively easy to pick up and play. Rangers of Shadow Deep varies on this ruleset with different scenario mechanics to provide a different gameplay experience, but is familiar for those who have played Frostgrave to not be a leap.
6. Pushing the game and letting people know about it.
   1. Games Workshop have (or had, probably still do have) the most global reach in the "hobby", with stores everywhere, shouting about their games and blasting it out of White Dwarf in what appeared to be every single possible place you could sell magazines. Back in the day, when the internet wasn't really the thing it is now, that was how you slapped nerds in the face with your product. Most other games of the time would be in the specialist publications and offered by "smaller" companies, most of which wouldn't be anywhere near as well known, and probably forgotten about most of the time.
      1. It's also why all the alternatives popped up when Specialist Games got neutered back in the day and White Dwarf devolved into a trashy catalogue; people stopped hearing about Necromunda, got turned away from GW stores when they wanted to play Necromunda, so started looking for alternative games and alternative publications (which were coincidentally full of new alternative games).
   2. The internet being a thing now, it is significantly easier to find blogs (BoLS, OnTableTop), video channels (YouTube, Twitch etc) and webstores pushing a new setting/system/rules/miniatures.
7. Getting a big enough player base for the game to support itself.
   1. Following on from point 6, really; die-hard fans will find some way to keep playing the game if the player base drops off (Hey, you lovely people!); you get enough people invested in it first, though, to establish those fans.
8. Keeping the game alive and fresh, but not too fresh.
   1. This is how original Necromunda (et al from Specialist Games) took a bullet; GW didn't keep it alive and forcibly killed it (not allowing it in stores, not publicising it, destroying stock after trying to clearance sale it away).
      1. N## is... Fresh?... Every time it releases a book or a sprue...?
   2. Frostgrave has a second edition, has rules revisions for existing content, and new content on the way as of time of writing.

1-5 have the setting with the rules mixed in; 6-8 highlight that a setting is only as good as the real world environment it is placed in and how it is treated.

I'd think it is possible to replicate the magic, as long as it isn't specifically "Necromunda" magic. It may have even already happened, but no-one knows about it yet.

When the Specialist Games stopped being supported by GW, a whole load of alternate systems sprung up to try and take the place of the various systems, hence Mantic coming to the fore as a miniature provider with their own line of sci-fi and fantasy games, hence Infinity being a thing, hence all the third-party mini producers etc.

Unfortunately, I'd not know much about other sci-fi settings, as I'm pretty much bought in to Necromunda of old, and while I'd happily tout some alternative systems from Osprey, those systems have fairly generic settings, and I'm not aware of people having enough interest to consider them.

For example, there are a few Frostgrave players on here (me being a prospective one), and I'm always happy to wax lyrical about LD:ZA, which has an interesting survivor group creation "mechanic" (you have three types of survivor that you have to pick from as a leader; Selfless, Selfish, and Trained. The selected type can be up to 100% of your group, 50% can be of the Neutral type (dogs, kids etc.) and up to 25% can be from the other type, so i.e. in a Selfish group of 8 models only 2 can be Selfless or Trained, or one of each).

See? I'm off on a tangent because I like how the system (both as a one-off game and as a campaign) works, but the setting is "zombie apocalypse, survive", you'd be making the setting up yourself - while everyone gets "zombie apocalypse", people get "Walking Dead" even more, as more people can orient themselves to Rick, Carl, Michonne and all the various other characters and locations that are already in existence. Given that the Walking Dead games by Mantic also have "generic" surivivor rules, to make your own characters, allows for the separate story of "your survivors" in a pre-existing universe, in turn making it eminently more relatable, more google-able, and potentially more successful than LD:ZA (I've not done a comparison, just going off my own expectations of human behaviour).

There's also recent books like Zona Alfa, Rogue Stars etc. that I'd be happy to go into as potential campaign games, but since they're not as well known or talked about as GW games in my circle of awareness I really don't know how interested people are in them.

I'd even be interested in some pirate skirmish games, but that's a bit of a stretch for me right now - the only reason I'm aware of/interested in them is because I needed to buy a boat for TribeMeet. Even then, I'm not a history buff, and especially not a pirate history buff. I've not looked at buying rules or minis, but those I've seen do pique my interest.

Part of GW doing N## and so on is to try and recapture the magic they threw away, only for it to be picked up and ran with by other people.

...

That's my two cents, anyway.

TL;DR - a setting will do well when they're a twist on something familiar that pushes a new boundary, setting up just enough for a person to flesh out the story in their own head, supported by simple to understand and use systems and are well supported and publicised by their creators.

@Ardavion that was amazing. You're a legend.

Thinking of application of this. I watched a guerilla miniatures games play through of horizon wars. The system seemed really simple and interesting. Mechs, tanks and infantry fighting epic scale battles. You get firepower and that does less harm the further you shoot. And essentially causes location damage. If we say that it already has a large player base (the reviews aren't great so idk) and they wanted to create a skirmish game.

They could make a setting. Say a jungle where their massive mechs are being flanked by guerrilla troops so the zone becomes infantry on infantry. But then the game isn't fought in jungles. Players are intelligence officers exploring fallen mechs.

The rules are kind of scaled down (locations aren't firepower, mobility, engines, etc, but are legs, arms, organs,etc). Then tag on an experience and injury system.

That would give room for player contribution. It would be in an established greater setting. The rules would be similar. Just the points 6 to 8 to work on?

 

[Thorgor]

I think the one things that sets Necromunda's setting apart is that it's set in the much bigger 40k universe but that most hive-dwellers are completely unaware of that fact. There is some kind of dramatic irony at work here, as your guys will fight and die gruesome deaths for what you know amounts to practically nothing in the grand scheme of things.

It's kinda hard to replicate as you first need an existing, well fleshed-out universe that you will then mostly ignore. You could do that with, say, the Star Wars license, if your entire game was set on a single planet and no character knew what a lightsaber is.
I believe the Paranoia RPG achieved something similar, using an alternate version of the real world as its "bigger universe", and confining the player characters to an underground complex with no knowledge of the outside world. Could do that with the Fallout universe too, if the game was set in a single Vault (especially if it's one of those with a neat social experiment going on).

 

[JawRippa]

Necromunda generates memorable stories like no other game. I got instantly hooked when my Goliath champion renderizered through a heavy stubber nest, and roared about how great he was, only to get an overdose from a stimm-slug and comically fall from a tall building while leaving a trail of puke behind. That same champion kept overdosing on me for at least 3-4 consequtive games in campaign, turning into a local meme.

A friend of mine had a promising enforcer rookee who had to survive a single battle to get 1XP for a desired advance. He hid him behind LoS and left him to open a loot casket - which ended up being booby trapped and pushed him into the wall, breaking his neck with an instant "66" death, poor bastard.

 

[Stoof]

Are there other settings that are as good?
Firefly is perhaps closest, or a myriad of 2000AD settings. But Necromunda grabbed my imagination as a lore setting and game environment.

What is the formula?
For ORB/NCE it was the life of a regular Joe. They weren't part of an elite force of soldiers, genetically modified super warriors, exotic alien murder-gremlins or immortal cyber nutcases - they were just people. Your ganger is the same as his ganger until something happens in their lives that sets them apart. In another world any of the gangers could be any of us. They're trying their best to survive and better themselves in a world that couldn't give a shadow of a damn about whether they live or die. They grow and develop and become powerful... or they fall and are crushed... and either way you usually got a damn good yarn or two out of a campaign.

Is it possible to replicate that magic?
It seems unfeasibly difficult. N17+ really didn't quite hit the mark - those regular Joes have become the aforementioned elite force of soldiers and genetically modified super warriors. They aren't just trying to get by as best they can - they're being supported and funded by an extensive network tied directly into their house and can easily access things that an old ganger could barely dream existed. You "buy" them already powerful and they can develop a bit, but not dramatically. A ganger feels less like a living breathing member of your team and more like a playing piece (they ARE playing pieces... but... ehm... you know what I mean).

GW certainly could have created N17 with the same flavour of ORB, but they love power creep and repeated buy-ins, so even if they had started on par with ORB I doubt two or three years down the line it would still be that way - they'd have found a way to shoehorn in an ever expanding arsenal of exotic equipment and new ganger types whatever they did.

However even the new version with these powerful soldier mooks can generate fantastic stories - and that's still a major plus. Everyone who's played Necromunda has at least one story of an against the odds survival, a risky attack that payed off, or even just something going hilariously and completely wrong. Start speaking about it in a group of people who have played and in minutes you'll all be recounting "I remember once when..." stories.

 

[TopsyKretts]

The opposite question could as well have been asked. How are we pulled out? For me, dual rapid fire grenade launchers on a huge goliath (normal goliath should already be huge) is one such thing. Terminator armour, fast shot plasmas, multi-melta and thunder hammers are others.

 

[Biggle_Bear]

Necromunda generates memorable stories like no other game. I got instantly hooked when my Goliath champion renderizered through a heavy stubber nest, and roared about how great he was, only to get an overdose from a stimm-slug and comically fall from a tall building while leaving a trail of puke behind. That same champion kept overdosing on me for at least 3-4 consequtive games in campaign, turning into a local meme.

A friend of mine had a promising enforcer rookee who had to survive a single battle to get 1XP for a desired advance. He hid him behind LoS and left him to open a loot casket - which ended up being booby trapped and pushed him into the wall, breaking his neck with an instant "66" death, poor bastard.

I hadn't considered the stories Necromunda generates. Is that possible with a simple system? Does Necromunda give special tools to create such moments?

 

[Biggle_Bear]

Are there other settings that are as good?
Firefly is perhaps closest, or a myriad of 2000AD settings. But Necromunda grabbed my imagination as a lore setting and game environment.

What is the formula?
For ORB/NCE it was the life of a regular Joe. They weren't part of an elite force of soldiers, genetically modified super warriors, exotic alien murder-gremlins or immortal cyber nutcases - they were just people. Your ganger is the same as his ganger until something happens in their lives that sets them apart. In another world any of the gangers could be any of us. They're trying their best to survive and better themselves in a world that couldn't give a shadow of a damn about whether they live or die. They grow and develop and become powerful... or they fall and are crushed... and either way you usually got a damn good yarn or two out of a campaign.

Is it possible to replicate that magic?
It seems unfeasibly difficult. N17+ really didn't quite hit the mark - those regular Joes have become the aforementioned elite force of soldiers and genetically modified super warriors. They aren't just trying to get by as best they can - they're being supported and funded by an extensive network tied directly into their house and can easily access things that an old ganger could barely dream existed. You "buy" them already powerful and they can develop a bit, but not dramatically. A ganger feels less like a living breathing member of your team and more like a playing piece (they ARE playing pieces... but... ehm... you know what I mean).

GW certainly could have created N17 with the same flavour of ORB, but they love power creep and repeated buy-ins, so even if they had started on par with ORB I doubt two or three years down the line it would still be that way - they'd have found a way to shoehorn in an ever expanding arsenal of exotic equipment and new ganger types whatever they did.

However even the new version with these powerful soldier mooks can generate fantastic stories - and that's still a major plus. Everyone who's played Necromunda has at least one story of an against the odds survival, a risky attack that payed off, or even just something going hilariously and completely wrong. Start speaking about it in a group of people who have played and in minutes you'll all be recounting "I remember once when..." stories.

You might be onto something there. Judge dredd and firefly are settings that I could get behind. It strikes me that there are similarities. They are all set in universes where there is strife and the stories are about relatable almost ordinary people trying to get by but not directly fighting against the greater issues.

 

[Thorgor]

I hadn't considered the stories Necromunda generates. Is that possible with a simple system? Does Necromunda give special tools to create such moments?

Lots and lots of randomness with some added randomness on top, mainly.
Also, a huge delta of randomness (when a ganger goes Out of action, the lasting effects go from additional XP to permanent death).
While most of the time things will go about as expected, such a system is guaranteed to occasionally generate those "what are the odds?" epic win/fail scenarios.

 

[Punktaku]

And what other game system allows a player to create some things like @ClockworkOrange ’s Trolls? (Love them or hate them, doesn’t matter) Totally appear outta left field, still fit in.

Cap Edit: Hate them

 

[Greyhart]

When it comes to Necromunda the main thing for me in the current iteration of the game that pulled me (back) in was nostalgia. For the original game it was a combination of things. I was familiar with the setting as I played 2nd Ed 40K at the time. I liked that - for the most part - there were no aliens. I like the ability to grow my gang and make it my own.

What has been pushing me away from Necromunda lately is manifold. Rules inconsistencies, poor editing, and a swing towards the 40K model of codecies that are only viable for about 3 years. I'm also heavily put off by 'one and done' runs of product to heavily influence panic buying and the inevitable scalpers. Because of that I've had ZERO success in trying to recruit additional players to the game in my local area, for which I honestly can't blame people.

To address the original questions:
- Are there any settings that are as good? Oh definitely. But as gamers what each of us considers "good" is very subjective.
- Is there a formula? Luck. Being the right time, right genre, right rules, and having the right team of developers. Much like many video games.
- Can you replicate it? I don't think you can duplicate the success of a particular product, especially when it comes to gaming. We're a fickle bunch. LoL. The confluence of circumstances that led to the original being popular aren't going to repeat themselves. Sequels always suck and "Lightning never strikes twice."

Those being said I do think that nostalgia can be a factor, along with an older generation wanting to introduce a younger one to the enjoyment they had.

 

[Troubled Child]

I guess it just reflected what I felt the future was going to be like when I was a kid. The industry my end of the city was reliant on for jobs was rapidly downsizing its workforce. Burnt out cars and National Front graffiti were everywhere. Drug use was rampant and included huffing glue. I got to go home from primary school early one day when the IRA sent a bomb threat to the prison next door. I clung desperately to my mum as the police charged Trafalgar Square on horseback.

It was easy to believe the future was going to be a dystopian nightmare and Necromunda showed us how bad it was for citizens at the bottom of society. Could the magic be recreated? Probably but it requires you to aim your setting at those on the fringes of society and all GW cares about is mass market appeal. Sci Fi is kind of like music in that it gets better when the world is in a worse state.

 

[Mr. M]

The original Necromunda was pretty much designed to hook me when I was a teenager. The dystopian future setting appealed to me due to the influence of the Mad Max, Johnny Mnemonic, RoboCop type movies. The game was a bit “counter culture” as it allowed one to play an unscrupulous, violent gang instead of an heroic or glorious army. The models had phenomenal character and were unlike anything else at the time.

There was another huge reason Necromunda drew me: it was (relatively) cheap! I started gaming in the late ‘80s by playing WHFRP with a friend and his older brothers, and this led to several of us in the neighborhood later playing WFB. For better or for worse, I chose an Orc & Goblin army… a brilliantly fun army to play, but a beast for a 12-year-old to collect and paint. After a couple of years and barely putting a dent in all those massed ranks of Gobbos, I was desperately ready for a game that didn’t require a substantial portion of my young life to play with a complete squad of painted miniatures! I had kept an eye on 40K, but never took the plunge because I was so put off by having to build a whole new army with all the time and expense that would entail. N95 was exactly what I needed to get reinvigorated in the hobby! Small squads, great scenery that could be deployed right out of the box, expansions that I could afford on a budget that consisted of allowance plus summer jobs!

Are there other settings that are as good?

Necromunda’s setting is, for me, one of the all-time greats. Sure, there are many elements derivative from other Sci-Fi stories/settings, but Necromunda brought it all together in one place and added plenty of amazingly creative originality to make it a unique gem in the history of gaming. I definitely agree with Stoof that the Firefly setting holds a candle to Necromunda. This is somewhat obscure, but for those into RPGs, the Fading Suns universe is a setting that is as good as Necromunda in my view. It is more of a space opera setting, but it has similar aspects: future feudalism, mysterious alien/archaeotech artifacts, vast disparities in the level of technology between worlds, rare and suspicious psychic powers – all done differently than Necromunda or 40K, but done well!

what is the formula?

The winning parts of the Necromunda formula for me were the small squads and the speed at which we as younger players could get started with an incredibly fun and memorable game. I started out with RPGs, so the campaign system of N95 was perfect for me. The lack of a progression system in WFB had always irked me, and N95 absolutely nailed it with how gangers could grow and become unique (for better or worse)! I mean, I kept playing battle after battle with my same semi-painted Orcs & Goblins, mostly against the same 2-3 armies that my friends had, but every time our troops started out fresh and exactly the same as they were the last time we played. Also, the ability to shift gears to other gangs without the massive investment that it takes to build a new WFB army was great for keeping the modeling aspect of the hobby fresh!

is it possible to replicate that magic?

While I’m now pushing into middle age and no longer financing my hobbies by doing household chores for my parents, I couldn’t imagine getting into N17+ if I were re-living my teenage years today. The modern iteration of Necromunda is far too convoluted, suffers from rules-bloat and power-creep, and cannot seem to keep the game consistent for any length of time or even among gangs (see the Gang War debacle and the slow-release of the “House of” books). The setting is still among the greatest, the models are still excellent, but the game is now a far cry from the N95 boxed set in terms of being able to get started modestly and then build to something spectacular over time. That being said, while N17+ hasn’t replicated the magic of the original for me, I sure hope it’s possible! Here’s wishing the recent efforts at a new YCE all the best!