I don't understand this world! Employment, income and hobbies?!

[Raven Morpheus]

Hey all


Bear with me, this may be a bit of a rambling rant...

I recently started watching a youtube channel where a group of people in the UK play roleplay games (RPG), like Dungeons and Dragons. It's hosted by a guy, his wife is one of the players and another of the players is a guy who works with them on another youtube channel and another project (I'll call him "Guy2").


It's a mildly entertaining channel and I have nothing against the people appearing on it, so I'm not naming the channel or participants, however I got curious as to what their "day jobs" are, so I started doing a little interweb digging.


The host guy I already knew had worked in the RPG industry (but no longer works for the company he was at), and since 2022, he seems to have become a "youtuber" and director of a tiny company which has updated and republished a board game that is currently sold by a fairly well known company in the RPG/tabletop/board game hobby. The youtube channel has been going since 2022, but doesn't have many subscribers, less than 10k. "They" are also on Patreon though, but again with low member count (less than 2k). And he also runs/appears on a youtube channel related to the tiny board game company he's a director of, with even fewer subscribers, as well as making regular appearances on a couple of other channels. So, seemingly no real "day job"/employment.


His wife is also a director of the board game publishing company, she also runs/appears on a youtube channel for that company. She is also apparently a department head in a large high street banking group, and is also on various things like PTA groups, as well as partaking in other hobbies such as iaido (yeah, I had to look that up as well).


Guy2, is also a director of the board game publishing company, also runs/appears on a youtube channel for that company, and is a school teacher.



All of the above makes me feel somewhat adrift and confused?!


Given the above information I see 3 people, 2 of which have what are considered full time jobs, and the third seemingly now a "youtuber" with a couple of very minor channels, no obvious "day job" and thus a mystery (to me) income source, all of which are directors of a company of less than 10 people. And yet they seem to have the time and income to run a couple of youtube RPG channels, i.e. their hobby, one of many aspects of their hobby, putting out at least weekly 4 hour live streams.


In contrast, I am currently a carer for my elderly mother (as some here might know), have been since 2022, I'm between jobs, I am also now disabled, and as an office worker in my 40s was struggling to find work post-pandemic anyway, and thus I'm on a fixed income. So whilst I have time for hobbies, I have a severely limited budget.


When I was employed I had spare income but severely limited time! I literally got home (after a 90 minute public transport journey), had a meal, watched a bit of TV to wind down and went to bed. No way could I have entertained partaking in a 4 hour live streamed RPG game or discussion once or twice a week, let alone preparing content for multiple youtube channels.


What am I doing wrong? Or is it just that those 3 people are engaging in some kind of BS, given that 2 of them supposedly have full time jobs as well as significant time consuming hobbies and one has no apparent real "day job"/main income?





Thank you for reading this far. Comments welcome.


Edited for typos

 

[daveh]

there is little use in comparing lives as the BS can be overpowering sometimes.
stay strong , enjoy the victories dont dwell on the bad days.

 

[katfezza]

I might know who you are talking about, although DnD is throwing me off as I thought WFRP. If it is the same people I'm thinking of then they have always been very motivated and driven (while also being really nice folks).

I know where you are coming from with the work/budget/life balance. It's hard to juggle. Some folks find it easy (like the YouTubers you speak of), and some don't (like us). It doesn't help that I like going to the pub. That could be time spent playing RPGs and such...

 

[Ardavion]

The host guy ... seems to have become a "youtuber" and director of a tiny company which has updated and republished a board game that is currently sold by a fairly well known company in the RPG/tabletop/board game hobby.

His wife is also a director of the board game publishing company, she also runs/appears on a youtube channel for that company. She is also apparently a department head in a large high street banking group, and is also on various things like PTA groups, as well as partaking in other hobbies such as iaido (yeah, I had to look that up as well).

Guy2, is also a director of the board game publishing company, also runs/appears on a youtube channel for that company, and is a school teacher.

They're all directors of some form or another. My experience with directors is that they do very little "work", and mostly determine what needs doing by the rest of the employees below them based on information on how the company is performing (the "directing"). Most directors rarely need to work an actual full week, even if they're contracted to work one - and some I'm aware of don't, as they ensure their take-home pay is below tax thresholds, and the shares they get in lieu of a salary (and other intangible assets they might have like a property portfolio) do the heavy lifting of providing for them without having to pay much (if any) tax through as many loopholes as they can take advantage of.

It is possible that they have either inherited wealth or otherwise accumulated a lot of money and invested it in a way that provides a passive income; I have no way of confirming more of these peoples' circumstances as I'm only working from your post.

As an example, there is a director in the venture capital group I work for who jets around Europe and Scandinavia having meetings with different heads of various divisions; the opportunity of jetting around having in-person meetings, instead of saving time and getting more work done via Zoom/Skype/Teams/Slack, would suggest that those flights might give them time to either do some work or have a nap, but it wouldn't immediately shout "I'm having to be efficient with my time and doing lots of demanding work".

By comparison, I had to stay up into the middle of the night last week on a day off to fix a problem as I was the only one who knew how to fix it, because I'm at the "hands-on, actually get stuff done" level of the business. Directors have very little need to stoop as low to do that; they get other people to do the work ("stuff rolls downhill").

Given the above information I see 3 people, 2 of which have what are considered full time jobs, and the third seemingly now a "youtuber" with a couple of very minor channels, no obvious "day job" and thus a mystery (to me) income source, all of which are directors of a company of less than 10 people. And yet they seem to have the time and income to run a couple of youtube RPG channels, i.e. their hobby, one of many aspects of their hobby, putting out at least weekly 4 hour live streams.

As I said, they're not necessarily full time jobs as most people would consider them. They're not running themselves ragged meeting deadlines, directors are usually enforcing the deadlines and quotas on others. The fact that they can spin up a company suggests some level of access to capital, so they likely became wealthy before their current circumstances. This might also suggest that the Youtube channels are run or at least supported by a team of people behind the scenes (I don't know the production values/videos so wouldn't be able to tell, but all the "successful" chat channels seem to have a lot of people behind the cameras doing stuff).

In contrast, I am currently a carer for my elderly mother (as some here might know), have been since 2022, I'm between jobs, I am also now disabled, and as an office worker in my 40s was struggling to find work post-pandemic anyway, and thus I'm on a fixed income. So whilst I have time for hobbies, I have a severely limited budget.

When I was employed I had spare income but severely limited time! I literally got home (after a 90 minute public transport journey), had a meal, watched a bit of TV to wind down and went to bed. No way could I have entertained partaking in a 4 hour live streamed RPG game or discussion once or twice a week, let alone preparing content for multiple youtube channels.

Your lifestyle, by contrast, would be likely more demanding of you and you alone, and from your description might not produce as much support - financial, physical or otherwise. Their 4-hour live streamed RPG or discussion is likely planned in advance, all organised so they leave the office early to get ready - the teacher seems to be the most "does actual work" of the group you describe, and they likely don't do any heavy lifting preparing for the live streams; they'll turn up, perhaps have hair and makeup, then sit and participate.

I have a boardgame session with a group of friends, typically every Sunday unless plans change. That involves me having to run around making sure I have everything planned out and ready for the coming week then getting to my friends house - it's never the other way around, as my house is tiny compared to theirs, so everything is there, including their dedicated gaming space. While I spend more time and effort getting sorted and going there (and I usually turn up a bit knackered), I'm not setting the games up, so it is a "division of labour" situation. We usually get takeaways to remove the hassle of cooking.

What am I doing wrong? Or is it just that those 3 people are engaging in some kind of BS, given that 2 of them supposedly have full time jobs as well as significant time consuming hobbies and one has no apparent real "day job"/main income?

You're doing nothing wrong, and technically neither are they. The people sound like they're independently wealthy and use their wealth to facilitate their lifestyle by having assistance from behind the scenes teams of people, and do the Youtube videos/streams as a hobby with potential ad revenue as a bonus.

There's a lot of celebrities hire social media teams to act on their behalf, and have teams of assistants to facilitate/plan things; if you think (for example) Mr Beast does every little thing in his life himself, you'd be surprised. There is also a lot of "perceived" activity because of this - if you think some rich person is running around doing absolutely everything, they won't be, even if the videos suggest it.

Another parallel; if you ever watched Downton Abbey (or similar period dramas), you'd know that while the manor owners did high society stuff, they were already a wealthy family and positioning to maintain their wealth through the companies and business interests they owned, while the house staff ran around doing all sorts of jobs around the manor to keep it functional (cooking, cleaning, gardening, tending animals, maintaining cars, doing the shopping) - the house staff weren't going off to big parties or going on holidays like their rich employers, as they didn't have the time or the energy, they likely just got their supper, disappeared up to their servant's quarters and fell asleep, to get up the next day and do it all over again. Just because those dramas are based in the early 20th century (or earlier) doesn't mean that kind of thing ever went away, it just changed its appearance.

If I won the lottery, for example, I'd likely try to acquire some passive income (possibly rental properties, possibly just pay a stock broker to move my money around on my behalf to make more) and hire a cleaner to tidy my house every few days; all my housekeeping would disappear, I'd have the 40-hour work week free (plus travel time to/from work) and I'd contemplate trying to fill all that free time somehow.

Until then, I'll keep having to waste 40+ hours a week running around following someone else's orders so I can get paid to keep a roof over my head and my belly full, all the while being pretty much tired all the time.

 

[Raven Morpheus]

@katfezza - Yes, WFRP, I mentioned D&D as an example of an RPG, probably didn't need to given this forum's nature. I agree that they are "nice folk", which is why I'm trying to skirt around who they are because it's not really relevant.

@Ardavion - Whilst they are listed as company directors of the same company, they're all writers, editors, artists etc. and work producing content for the company. As I understand it there's only 4 people in the company, the three I have alluded to, and one other person who is also listed as a director (also an artist). I guess it's something to do with how business works in the UK - the company is a "game design studio".

They have a "behind the scenes" producer (1 person) for the live streams, whether they get paid or not, who knows. They're not exactly CriticalRole, often having dechnical tifficulties, for example, from the 40 episodes of their campaign I've watched so far.

They're not celebrities with an entourage behind the scenes. They also don't appear to be minted, because in a live stream I watched from 2024, they were practically begging for donations via Patreon.

The full time jobs I was referring to were not the directorships, but being a banking group department head or school teacher (Head of English and Distance Learning apparently). Both those people appear far more involved than just turning up and playing (they host (and "create" content for) other live streams themselves for example).

I can't see them sloping off early once, sometimes twice or more, a week every week for the past 3-4 years. I don't think they'd still have a job. I suppose they could have a long standing agreement with their employers, but, to me that'd amount to asking to be able to leave early to moonlight...


I guess as @katfezza stated some people find it easy.

Edited for typos

 

[Biggle_Bear]

also they likely don’t have a sick mother to care for, work into the middle of the night (sacrificing health in the persuit of one day making it) and maybe just genetically predisposed to being able to get stuff like that done. No two situations are the same.

I used to envy YouTubers, but I had to remind myself that they have their own problems too. It’s just that they don’t air it, and those that do don’t do so well.

 

[Stoof]

We've all seen people on various platforms who seem to be playing life in easy mode. Often they come from wealth already, sometimes they are extremely driven and have succeeded, and sometimes they're nowhere near as successful as their content suggests (and more often than not they have no dependants to look after!)

Don't dwell on it, focus on your own life. Watch the content if you enjoy it, if it's annoying you then please stop, for the good of your own health, especially since you seem to be going through a rough time already.

 

[katfezza]

@Raven Morpheus Yes, I am 99% sure I know who you are referring to. Spent many years chatting to A.L. about 2nd ed WFRP and similar things. Helped out with a few tiles towards his full map of the Old World done in Mighty Empires.

 

[Ben_S]

The problem with hobbies briefly summarised:

When you're young, you have spare time and energy but not enough money.

When you're mid-career, you have energy and money (hopefully!), but not enough spare time.

When you retire, you have spare time and money, but not enough energy.

The problems can be avoided in some cases, like if you're born into a rich family or win the lottery or something. But most of us never have time, energy, and money at the same time.

 

[Tiny]

Some people are just more motivated than others.

I myself am not a particularly motivated person and can't think of anything worse than producing YouTube videos in my spare time. My hobby time is for my own hobbies, and that isn't video production.

I am blessed to be self employed so I can go to the gym in the middle of most people's working days, pick my niece up from school etc, and run my business around it. Other people are workaholics and will be busy every hour god gives. We all have different priorities in life and different motivations.

They're all directors of some form or another. My experience with directors is that they do very little "work", and mostly determine what needs doing by the rest of the employees below them based on information on how the company is performing (the "directing"). Most directors rarely need to work an actual full week, even if they're contracted to work one - and some I'm aware of don't, as they ensure their take-home pay is below tax thresholds, and the shares they get in lieu of a salary (and other intangible assets they might have like a property portfolio) do the heavy lifting of providing for them without having to pay much (if any) tax through as many loopholes as they can take advantage of.

As a company director of a small business, I can tell you that you couldn't be more wrong. There is a massive difference between a director of a large multinational and a director of a small business.

The clue in this case is that every employee of the company is a director, meaning the directors are the ones doing the work.

 

[Lord_Ikka]

Patreon can be quite lucrative, so even with a low number of subscribers you can rake in the cash - 2k subscribers all paying a minimum of a buck each month means $2k each month. That might not be live-off-of money, but if all it requires them to do is release videos that they would already do, then it is basically free money for them.

 

[Ardavion]

As a company director of a small business, I can tell you that you couldn't be more wrong. There is a massive difference between a director of a large multinational and a director of a small business.

We all have our own experiences, I guess. The first company I ever worked for (a small decal printer for plant machinery) had around 20-30 employees, and the owner's family occupied basically every director position they had. His wife was never anywhere near the factory except when she called in to see if her husband wanted to pop out for lunch or to drop the dogs off while she went somewhere, he spent most of his day looking at cars online, and his second eldest daughter managed most of the day-to-day operations. The eldest daughter was training for the Olympics, the eldest son had his own vehicle wrapping/signage business, and the youngest kids were both going through uni while I worked there.

The clue in this case is that every employee of the company is a director, meaning the directors are the ones doing the work.

If everyone at a company is a director and also does another role, at that point "director" is effectively a meaningless title; to paraphrase Syndrome from The Incredibles, "If everyone is a director, no-one is".

 

[CaptainDangerous]

Although I don’t agree with looking into peoples private lives, I do agree with the sentiment.

My gripe is generally with non hobby stuff, I’ll use football (or soccer as some would say, tho I’m sure it’s true of American football too) as an example.
The entire industry is set up to be predatory and cash grabby in every possible way, they don’t even try to hide it, and there’s tens of thousands of channels dedicated to talking about it, the more predatory and cash grabby the channel, the more successful they seem to be!?!?
Some of the channels are based around Football computer games even, so a completely fictional irrelevant version of the actual game.
And somehow they are all more successful than any sort of miniature hobby channel??
A subject that is thought provoking and ultra creative, whose supportive community is always trying to help along anyone who shows even a hint of interest.
But no, talking about a bunch of millionaires kicking an inflated sphere backwards and forwards is somehow a topic that nations of people dedicate their lives to?

Iv come to the conclusion that most things in life are extremely unfair, and the selection process is even more so. Enjoy what you have with the people you enjoy.

 

[Tiny]

If everyone at a company is a director and also does another role, at that point "director" is effectively a meaningless title; to paraphrase Syndrome from The Incredibles, "If everyone is a director, no-one is".

Quite literally how most small businesses work. Where the directors are also full time workers.

Even if the directors aren't on the front line, in most cases they're generating business. What might look like Bob swanning off to play golf again, is actually Bob meeting clients and generating another year's worth of work for the company. I have a friend who runs a glazing company and you'd swear he does nothing but go to the pub, or for coffee, and off on holidays and fancy events all the time. Without him generating business, the company would go under in a year.

But yes, most family businesses will add family members as additional directors for tax purposes and for contingency in case of emergency (if for example a sole shareholder and director dies, who ensures the employees get paid?). That is just sensible business practice.

 

[Ardavion]

What might look like Bob swanning off to play golf again, is actually Bob meeting clients and generating another year's worth of work for the company. I have a friend who runs a glazing company and you'd swear he does nothing but go to the pub, or for coffee, and off on holidays and fancy events all the time. Without him generating business, the company would go under in a year.

I suppose the old adage "if you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life" is very relevant; it would only be hard work for Bob if he hates playing golf...

But yes, most family businesses will add family members as additional directors for tax purposes and for contingency in case of emergency (if for example a sole shareholder and director dies, who ensures the employees get paid?). That is just sensible business practice.

Completely agree. They also had all of the machines leased to the business by another company the wife owned, so if the business went under the machines couldn't be sold off to pay debts, and they could then restart a new business without the outlay for new equipment. They also got exorbitant payments paid out to the wife's business due to the leasing agreement; the machines were second-hand and being sold off, but leased as though they were worth more, so they'd get the cost of the machines back quicker and start turning a "profit" sooner.

 

[Raven Morpheus]

@Raven Morpheus Yes, I am 99% sure I know who you are referring to. Spent many years chatting to A.L. about 2nd ed WFRP and similar things. Helped out with a few tiles towards his full map of the Old World done in Mighty Empires.

Old World? I thought it was only The Empire! I've seen, via google, someone else do an Old World Mighty Empires map though, looked fantastic.

 

[katfezza]

Old World? I thought it was only The Empire! I've seen, via google, someone else do an Old World Mighty Empires map though, looked fantastic.

Yeah, it was just the Empire itself, I misspoke. My memory gets fuzzy in my old age.