I like Tyranids but....

Zugg Zugg

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So I have always liked the look, design and feel of Tyranids but have never been able to collect them and today I realised the one thing that stops me from collecting them.

The hive Mind is stupid. For all it's learning it has never learnt a basic thing that all the other races have learnt. That you can cultivate biomass. The Tyranids don't need to consume everything. They don't even need to learn how to farm. They just have to not consume everything and let the planets keep on producing life. Even Orks know this. Even as a metaphor for the worst of humanity, I think humans would not be that bad. Consume everything and move on is a stupid strategy for survival.

That said if we assume they are functioning like a hunter gather society that consumes everything in an area and moves on to the next eventually coming back to the area they started where everything has grown back then it works. Perhaps once they are finished with this galaxy they go back to the galaxy they came from and everything has grown back. Except that it says they consume everything. Hunter gatherers couldn't consume everything. they always left behind plenty of biomass to regrow the area in terms of their excrement, carcasses and scraps.

That's it, that's the thing that bugs me about Tyranids and stops me from playing them. The hive Mind is dumb. It only learns from its opponents in a battle context. It's like an AI programmed to play strategy war games tasked with running a civilisation. Perhaps I could enjoy fantasising about that but part of me would be bugged that my hive fleet wasn't acting in a way that would ensure its indefinite survival. Perhaps I should make up a new hive fleet that has worked out agriculture
 
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NoOneII.

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Yeah, they're more into AngryCulture. :D

One miiiiight assume that the timescale they operate in is that vast, that even a livebarren rock planet will redevelop life in the meantime, after being recolonized or hit by a spore-meteor or something.
Or that maybe, the "total barren wastes" they leave behind do have some pockets/caves etc. and are just en emphasizing expression.
40k loves bold and absolute statements. "The best warriors of mankind. And the bestest of those. Who then get handpicked..." etc.
 
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spafe

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Or that maybe, the "total barren wastes" they leave behind do have some pockets/caves etc. and are just en emphasizing expression.
no idea if its current, but back in the slimline dex era (5th?) it stated they even adsorbed the atmosphere of the planets they consumed.

Depends how you want to view it, I have never thought about it, now you mention it, I would easily handwave it away as saying this is the AI programmed to war strategy, and that there are more nid life forms in their home galaxy that exist in definitely. these are the fire and forget part of their war society that fires off, consumes all to remove any threats to their home living and then eventually burns itself out.

OR....

they just arnt that smart in the way you and I think. Many insects, microbes, animals etc etc, very good at learning, very good at problem solving... for the thing in front of them, but never have the wider longer term view to species survival. Lots of examples of swarms and plagues running amok, then burning themselves out. They are intelligent, they overcome resistences, immune systems, pesticides etc etc, but only by the metric of their problem solving issues in front of them.
 

Biggle_Bear

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I think I read ages ago that imperial boffins calculated that the amount of biomass found in defeated fleets is less than that consumed, therefore they somehow teleport the mass to their home galaxies. That might suggest that the fleets themselves are just a war specialist DNA strand that is sent by a even higher form. that ugly sod just sits in its home galaxy raking is the fat profits coming in from galaxies that are of no interest to them otherwise. It's more profitable to steal that mass, and extinguish any life that may someday threaten it's own existence.
 

trollmeat

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The purposes of Great Devourer that is the Hive Mind cannot be comprehended by tiny humans with their small meat brains that are disconnected from each other.

They traveled across the empty expanse between galaxies to consume everything in their path. When they are done they may move on to another, perhaps in a great cycle they will eventually come back once life has returned (life finds a way).

Perhaps they have been through here before, and will soon move on through the endless carousel buffet that is the universe. Could even just be that they were created by an unknown shadow in the warp that plans to end all life, including that of the ‘nids when they have completed their task.
 
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In the RT book each Hive Fleet had it's own central Hive Tyrant, the only tyranid capable of reproduction and all tyranids in the fleet were progeny of that Hive Tyrant and linked psychically to it. It was described as an "ant or termite like" society.

They may simply be psychic space ants with evolved and adapted specialized traits and powers that allow them to bio-engineer a variety of servitor and soldier slave races and equipment, send them out to collect their harvest and return it to the hive. There is no deep meaning to their existence, simply 'gather/consume/survive/savethequeen'...

Considering the variety of Terran ants, the natural specialization of certain genera and their hive structure it's not even a giant jump to think that is entirely the concept of Tyranids.

The old Rogue Trader book also states that they take everything, including the atmosphere. Of course... that same book states that the tyranids bio-engineered the zoats as a slave race and any tyranid force must include 50% zoats.

FWIW I have no idea what is GW's current tyranid scheme is like, I stopped following them after 2nd edition. Somewhere I still have a squad of genestealers, some RT era hybrids and a couple of the old screamer carnifexes.

Try Sugar Zoats, NOW WITH 50% more biomass!
 

trollmeat

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Another option could be that the Tyranids we see are the warrior caste, sent out to purge all other life from the universe, while in their home galaxy they live a peaceful and balanced life.
 
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Zugg Zugg

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Ok, I could imagine they are taking all the biomass from this galaxy to create Gaia worlds in their own galaxy. More likely though if we are comparing them to ants their worlds probably look like a giant ants nest. I guess it could be like those soldier ants that just plow through everything but they don't take the atmosphere.

Ok, you're starting to sell me on the idea that our galaxy is a rival ants nest to them and they are at war for no reason other than the view that there is another hive Mind, the emperor, that needs to be taken out.
 

trollmeat

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You are also forgetting that the Hive Fleets are an ecosystem in and of themselves. Perhaps they are destroying worlds but creating their own mobile version of what we think of as habitat.
 
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Galtarr

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You are also forgetting that the Hive Fleets are an ecosystem in and of themselves. Perhaps they are destroying worlds but creating their own mobile version of what we think of as habitat.
How friendly or antagonistic to one another are the hive fleets? Ants are very territorial and I imagine hive fleets fighting over biomass or trying to eat one another.
 
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spafe

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How friendly or antagonistic to one another are the hive fleets? Ants are very territorial and I imagine hive fleets fighting over biomass or trying to eat one another.
I thought they had done this in the past
 

Punktaku

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You could just lump all the fluff and fluffy ideas together to make one big Lore where it’s all true…

Eons ago in a galaxy far, far away, a race took to the stars because they had exhausted their home world’s resources. They would find new worlds, plunder them of (most of) their resources so the home world would survive. When they had reached a certain threshold, groups began to splinter off, creating new home worlds similar to but separate from the original. And this would continue. Once a certain threshold was reached, all this psychic activity created The Great Devourer in the Warp, forever changing the star race into what we see today.

The leaders of the home worlds became like a hive Queen, so there are multiple hives in this galaxy. As the hives grow, new Queens are born, and swarm off to create new hives until the galaxy is full.

Then, far off in another galaxy, the beacon of a new, strange, rival Queen appears and the biggest hive queens send out a swarm to deal with this new threat. The swarms follow the light of the Astronomicon right to our galaxy.

(I’m gonna diverge here) these swarms are actually “small” drone ships that are fully warp jump capable, and each one houses the equivalent of a star gate in its belly to send biomass back home (explains why so much is missing). It also allows the ships to vomit out workers and warriors, so that the first worlds to fall are devoured to create the massive Hive Fleets. Smaller node Tyranids build the fleets until finally the Overlord Tyrant arrives to take control and they race off to eat everything and kill the Rival Queen sending out that beacon. The fleets all look similar because the hive mind uses the equivalent of an STC stored in its collective consciousness. Given enough time, these fleets might generate an actual Hive Queen, giving the Great Devourer another galaxy.

Oh, and I’d like to think these original Home Worlds aren’t worlds at all anymore, but are now the biological version of a Dyson Sphere.

I think I hit all the points I wanted.. but then I started winging it and probably veered off course. Like a hive fleet that senses a rival hive fleet. “Is that Bob over there taking over worlds?!? I hate that guy.”
 

Zugg Zugg

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You are also forgetting that the Hive Fleets are an ecosystem in and of themselves. Perhaps they are destroying worlds but creating their own mobile version of what we think of as habitat.
This is interesting. Are they a fully functioning ecosystem or do they need the outside biomass to sustain itself. Is the biomass they take to expand the size of the fleet or to sustain the fleet or both?
 
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Zugg Zugg

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You could just lump all the fluff and fluffy ideas together to make one big Lore where it’s all true…

Eons ago in a galaxy far, far away, a race took to the stars because they had exhausted their home world’s resources. They would find new worlds, plunder them of (most of) their resources so the home world would survive. When they had reached a certain threshold, groups began to splinter off, creating new home worlds similar to but separate from the original. And this would continue. Once a certain threshold was reached, all this psychic activity created The Great Devourer in the Warp, forever changing the star race into what we see today.

The leaders of the home worlds became like a hive Queen, so there are multiple hives in this galaxy. As the hives grow, new Queens are born, and swarm off to create new hives until the galaxy is full.

Then, far off in another galaxy, the beacon of a new, strange, rival Queen appears and the biggest hive queens send out a swarm to deal with this new threat. The swarms follow the light of the Astronomicon right to our galaxy.

(I’m gonna diverge here) these swarms are actually “small” drone ships that are fully warp jump capable, and each one houses the equivalent of a star gate in its belly to send biomass back home (explains why so much is missing). It also allows the ships to vomit out workers and warriors, so that the first worlds to fall are devoured to create the massive Hive Fleets. Smaller node Tyranids build the fleets until finally the Overlord Tyrant arrives to take control and they race off to eat everything and kill the Rival Queen sending out that beacon. The fleets all look similar because the hive mind uses the equivalent of an STC stored in its collective consciousness. Given enough time, these fleets might generate an actual Hive Queen, giving the Great Devourer another galaxy.

Oh, and I’d like to think these original Home Worlds aren’t worlds at all anymore, but are now the biological version of a Dyson Sphere.

I think I hit all the points I wanted.. but then I started winging it and probably veered off course. Like a hive fleet that senses a rival hive fleet. “Is that Bob over there taking over worlds?!? I hate that guy.”
I shall now make hive fleet bob. Any ideas on the character of hive fleet bob
 
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I shall now make hive fleet bob. Any ideas on the character of hive fleet bob



TL02.gif


Sorry, my mind went immediately to Bob's Burgers...
 
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trollmeat

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This is interesting. Are they a fully functioning ecosystem or do they need the outside biomass to sustain itself. Is the biomass they take to expand the size of the fleet or to sustain the fleet or both?
They were able to cross the dark expanse with “maintenance crew” swapping in and out of a sort of sleep-stasis, and start producing swarms of warriors when they arrived.

The fleets that have been encountered are the tip of the iceberg. Who knows what else will turn up as the invasion continues to step up.
 
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