N18 In praise of the Escher Juve Rocket

Discussion in 'Gangs & Loadout' started by Tommy Mansell, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. TabulaRasa

    TabulaRasa Gang Champion

    As some others have given testimony to it's far from impossible with the right circumstances. My Goliath leader with heavy bolter and suspensors racked it together in just a few games. I do however think it can be hard for the juve since the webber doesn't take anyone OOA. With a bit of luck he can be running around like a terrier and CDG people the turn after he's blasted them though.
     
  2. Ergonomic Cat

    Honored Tribesman

    Also, depends on the missions. You can get XP for a number of actions that aren't murder (Defiling Relics, getting in vaults, destroying targets, etc). If you're focusing on leveling up a Juve, you can definitely make it happen!
     
  3. TabulaRasa

    TabulaRasa Gang Champion

    For sure! Although some of them might also be quite difficult for a juve and some scenarios are less common in a dominion campaign. CDG might still be the easiest way to go about it.
     
  4. Kairae

    Kairae Gang Champion

    That's one area where 'mobility' focussed Juves have an advantage.
     
  5. Ergonomic Cat

    Honored Tribesman

    Holy Monkey Jesus.

    Inspired by this thread, I gave this a shot. I actually had a melee leader with Overseer, because I didn't really plan out my progression. ;)

    However! I put my melee Leader behind my dual Stilleto knive Juve. They both double moved 10" from their starting 12" deployment. And then next turn, I chain activated both of them. The Leader Overseer'ed the Juve (who was 2" ahead of her). The Juve double moved (12") and then activated and charged (8"). My Goliath opponent was not expecting 3 attacks, hitting on 4+, injury rolls on 4+ (5+?) on his Champion. It was just fun.
     
    ZackSD, MusingWarboss and TabulaRasa like this.
  6. Yes! More stabby Escher girls! I'm a few games in to the campaign now and the double stilletto juves definitely aren't is killy as they used to be. One of them has already bumped her WS to 3+ though so she's 3+ to hit and to wound most models. The same price as a ganger with a basic weapon but she hits like a champ! They all need a pistol or grenades though. Running around and stabbing may be great fun but it isn't always best
     
  7. TabulaRasa

    TabulaRasa Gang Champion

    So in other words it sounds like they actually managed to balance the Escher juves? Still very strong for what they cost, but not a ‘click and delete’ sort of power level?

    Don’t know about giving them grenades since they’re only S2(?). 6” isn’t exactly golden with a 5+ BS, unless we’re talking smoke. I’m still sold on the idea of going M as a first advance and then get a hand flamer for some serious barbecue. WS, second M and Spring Up can all come later.

    Btw, has anyone tried any of the other agility skills? There’s been a couple of times when I’ve really wanted the ability to jump down levels without injuring myself.
     
  8. Yeah it's gonna be the smoke grenades on one, photo goggles on the other trick. Goliaths have a nasty habit of remaining standing, but you can't fight what you can't see. As for skills, I've only tried spring up so far, which is badass on a heavy. I want to give one of the girls sprint too. A 21" run (or even a possible 24") is eye wateringly fast.
     
    TabulaRasa likes this.
  9. TabulaRasa

    TabulaRasa Gang Champion

    Just keep a watch out for those combat shotguns or flamers. Haven’t looked it up to see if they changed it, but last I checked they don’t need LOS to place that template.
     
  10. I don't know, I have been toying with the idea of Photon flash on the Escher juves. Only a 6" throw for a 5" template, they would have already used the ready marker so a risk but with a 2+ Initiative could be worth a go? Essentially creating the Escher juve "bomb rat".
    I haven't tried the flares in mass quantities but at the same cost as smoke and on the house list hitting something like a Van Saar leader and anyone near him for group activation with their low initiative with two grenades would mean losing a ready marker in the current turn, and then the next (would need to fail two rolls).

    Would work for getting other models in position without repercussion to set up charges. Maybe more useful in zone mortalis?
     
  11. TabulaRasa

    TabulaRasa Gang Champion

    Yes, forgot about the flares for a second there, fills similar functions though.

    PFF are a bit unreliable against anything but van saar though. Most other gangs have a I of 4+ in general and 3+ for their leaders (even Goliath), this get upped if they have goggles. I like the idea though and against van saar they should probably be a staple. Together with a weapon with stun they would be really effective. Just a shame that grav is so expensive and lacks a good ability to wound.

    Not so sure that the 'flare' rule stacks. So it will probably just be for the models next activation if they miss their I test. Unless you can line them up.
     
  12. The way I read it is if they are hit and have a ready token they lose it, if they don't have a ready token they don't gain one on the next activation. So hitting a ready fighter with a flare, assuming they fail their test, then hitting them with a second flare if they fail their test again would remove the first token and then prevent one in the following phase.
    It's not stacking it, not sure if its a rules as written vs intended though.

    I agree a 3+ or better is probably not worth it but average ganger is 4+, as are Cawdor and Orlock Leaders and Champions, Delaque and Goliath champions. That's a 50% chance to remove a ready token or prevent one, you also pin the fighter. Not totally reliable I admit but throw enough flares and it will cause problems.

    I'm also a firm believer in forcing the other gangs in a campaign to buy equipment they don't really want, if they are buying gas masks and goggles they aren't buying bigger guns!
     
    Vonvilkee likes this.
  13. el_guestos

    el_guestos Ganger

    Had totally missed that PFF stacking....good catch though, seems legit to me
     
  14. It's worth a FAQ, but RAW for Smoke say "it blocks line of sight, so attacks cannot be made into, out of or through it". That seems fairly clear. Not shooting attacks (which require line of sight), all attacks, including close combat. It definitely makes sense that a fighter could flame a smoke cloud but would they? Then they would be able to flame out of a smoke cloud too, which would seem a waste of ammo unless it could somehow be known that the attack would hit, which breaks the smoke mechanic. It can be argued both ways, but I think the rule is clear. I'll be going to our munificent arbitrator on this one. We're already considering house ruling it so fighters without photo goggles count as Blind for the purposes of close combat.
     
  15. Our group's very successful Goliath player has a tendency to send in the heavies in groups. Id love to double flash flare a whole bunch of them. It'd be pure gold
     
    HoboDaveGoBOOM likes this.
  16. The other advantage is during scenarios with sentries. The way I read it, is that the alarm is raised if a fighter that has spotted another fighter (which gains him a ready marker) has a ready token at the end of the phase. Flare that guy! No marker no alarm.
    It may set of the alarm from the shooting attack though.
     
    el_guestos likes this.
  17. el_guestos

    el_guestos Ganger

    I thought weapons without a strength stat (ie PFF) couldn't set off the alarm...or am i making that up?
     
  18. You roll 2D6 and add the strength, if it has the blast trait you add 2 to the result, it goes off if it's 10 or more. So it would still go off on a roll of 8 from a PFF.
     
    el_guestos likes this.
  19. TabulaRasa

    TabulaRasa Gang Champion

    So I guess I should only comment on these sort of things with the book in front of me ;-)

    The actual wording in N18 for 'flare' is that they become blinded if they fail a I test. Blinded is something with markers available (gang leaders accessory pack), but more importantly it is also a condition as per the new definitions. Since it's the condition that makes you lose the ready marker I would say that it something that can't happen again until the condition is resolved? For instance you can't be broken twice, gain blaze twice etc unless specifically stated from some other source (tactic cards etc).

    You might be right! Although technically it wouldn't stop you charging since it doesn't have to have LOS to do it and is in reality a special form of move action. They just wouldn't be allowed to make the attacks (one could argue that realistically it should be possible to do it as if blinded and only hitting on 6's). If this is rules as intended is another matter so it would probably be worth a FAQ.
     
  20. Seems like a fair assumption, although I couldn't see a "blinded" status mentioned in the new rule book and it makes no mention of a counter. I also have no "blinded" marker in the gang war box. Could you quote a page in the rule book?

    I would argue that with smoke and template weapons it says during step one you do not declare an enemy to be the target of the attack. No target no line of sight required? I'm unsure on this as well as it also creates odd interactions with darkness and the Delaque card that prevents you being shot or charged.
     
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