N18 Intrigues, how do they work? (or: do they work?)

[TopsyKretts]

Trying to wrap my head around how Intrigues are supposed to work.

Sub-plot:	Draw:
House	1
Intrigue	3

Page 63

Both players draw 3 Intrigue cards at the start​

of each battle. After reading their cards, both players​

should place them face-down beside the battlefield.​

​

An Intrigue can be claimed by the player that drew​

it once the criteria listed have been met. A player​

can claim an Intrigue at any point during the battle​

simply by picking the Intrigue card up and saying​

that they are claiming it. Once an Intrigue has been​

claimed, it cannot be unclaimed.​

Page 53:

The players each draw 3 Intrigue cards and,​

after reading them, place them face-down beside​

the battlefield. Both players should read the text​

on each card. These Intrigues can be claimed by​

either player during the battle as described in the​

Intrigues section on page 64. Any special rules that​

affect the battlefield set-up should be dealt with in​

the Set Up Battlefield step.​

Keep these cards secret until claimed, or let all players read all cards?
Only claim the cards you draw, or claim all cards regardless of who drew them?
If all players can read and claim them, why not just draw 3 cards per player and put them in a shared pool for the battle?
What gives?

 

[Thorgor]

Information known to all players must for some reason be placed face down on the table...
Congrats writers, you have found one of my fiercest pet peeve.

Pages 53 and 63 clearly describe two completely different ways of playing Intrigues that are also both simultaneously the only way to play them.
The only sanity-preserving response to that is to disregard both and play Intrigues however you see fit

 

[TopsyKretts]

Appart from the shockingly confusing and broken rules, some of the Intrigues themselves are also quite interesting. Some of them are similar to the House Sub-plots. Minor effect, corner case, difficult or situational. But as I continued through the cards, there were some real power bombs and oddballs:

Hit The Stimms: Remember all those Second Best and Wild Snake drinks you bought? Getting Unstoppable skill? Running towards the Medicae Station? Armed to the teeth with Rad-phage? Forget all of that. This card gives immunity to Flesh Wounds for the entire battle. No requirements. And no penalties for Outlaws. This is more powerful than most Tactics Cards!

Ressurect the Dead: A fighter that has died over the course of this campaign can be returned with their original equipment (suffering -1 Toughness in the process). The effect is not completely broken, but a few problems comes to mind. First, their equipment could already be transferred to other fighters, even to other gangs. And you now have to keep a separate roster for all your dead fighters? Maybe bring back a fighter 1 year after it died (some campaigns don't stop)?

 

[Thorgor]

Now that I've read what some of those Intrigues do, I don't think the page 53 way of playing them can even work. As you said, Take the Stimms is an incredible boon with no drawback for outlaw gangs, and it also has no requirement. So what happens if both players want to claim it at the same time (as they should)?

Keeping the Intrigues hidden information to the other player is not really possible either (or, at least, you are forced to reveal some of them before they are claimed — for Instance, Wreck the place requires your fighters to make a total of two unique Vandalise basic action in the opponent's deployment zone: it should be clear when you make the first one that you have this Intrigue in your hand).

So the best way to play them seems to have each player draw 3 Intrigues at the start of the game that they alone can claim, and simply put them face up on the table where everyone can read them at all time.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yes, but some of them are almost identical to House sub plots (sabotage, graffiti, burn and wreck stuff), and they are kept hidden. They do however specify to be revealed once these actions are performed the first time (so the opponent knows what's going on). It wouldn't be a big effort to keep that in mind when playing with Intrigues. Some of them are boring, or could best be played early or at the start of the game. But when I read the bomb intrigue, it seemed more fun/interesting to keep it hidden until planting the bomb.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

The first quote is clearly the correct one in my eyes. The parts of the second one which do not contradict it, such as altering set up, can be considered reliable I guess.

Just my 2 creds.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Having finally read through all Intrigues, many of them are based on already existing House Sub-plots. Modified for Alignments (Outlaw / Law Abiding):


Spreading Unrest = Seed the Rebellion
The Stitch Up = Stitch Them Up!
Recovery Job = Collect a Debt
Shadowing = Watch from the Shadows
Scrap Code Corrupt the Machine
Official Secrets Mark the Impure
A Little Surprise = Blow It Up!
Doppelganger = Reveal the Imposter

Here are the special actions from all Sub-plots (House & Intrigue):

Actions:
Spudwrenching (House only)
Graffiti (Both)
Plant Evidence (Both)
Search (House only)
Shakedown (Both)
Shadow (Both)
Hacking (Both)
Pict Capture (Both)
Bribe (House only)
Plant Bomb (Both)
Vandalise (Intrigue only)
Start Fire (Intrigue only)

Some of them are almost identical, others have minor variations. It seems Intrigues are made easier to complete than House Sub-plots. Some actions are reduced from Double to Basic. Also the number of times some actions must be made are reduced. With the new Intrigues so similar to House Sub-plots, it could almost look like they will replace them completely? It feels very strange having two highly similar alternatives.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

I'm working on combining Dominion and L&R. I was originally planning to use Subplots fo Territory games and Intrigues fo Racket games. I'm now leaning towards only using Intregues for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

So there are half as many intrigues as there are subplots, but you draw 3x as many per game. I think that would get old quickly. I guess I'm going to have to translate 26 more subplots into intrigues to make a full deck, and maybe add the jokers as... something...

 

[TopsyKretts]

I haven't quite decided yet, but I wonder if they all could be shuffled together. Draw 3 keep 1? I think you could experiment different ways to use them each game. In general, it seems the Intrigues are more "worth it" and more realistic to achieve. Some of the house sub-plots I don't see myself accomplishing ever. And some are not worth the hassle.

I also think about keeping all sub-plots optional, if a player don't like it, it never has to have any effect. The drawbacks and benefits/rewards all take effect only if the player chooses.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

What bothers me is the similar yet different ones yiu pointed out. I'd need to select one to keep in those cases. It's the same with racket and territories. I have removed the duplicates or near duplicates and made new assets. For example: there are two fighting pit assets that give free scum boons. I replaced the fighting pit territory with a gene conditioning shop/gym, as it was a Goliath territory. I just need to write rules for the boons. (Shop or Gym...hmmm).

On one of the twitch chats I heard someone say something about house subplots that made them sound very cool, but it is not what made it into the book. Basically, each suit has different rewards, credits, rep, ect. It was implied you could choose what suit you wanted to draw from to offset weaknesses. As cool as that is, people will always just take the credit one in my experience. I'll just convert 26 of the best to make a full 52 Intrigues.

 

[spafe]

I just need to write rules for the boons. (Shop or Gym...hmmm).

2 sets of free stimm slugs?

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

That's what I was thinking, but maybe some of the new drugs as well...